Is Pogba as good as gone?

JPRouve

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What did I imagine?
People mixing criticism and hatred. The reason there is a suspiscion of irrational dislike or hatred is because Pogba's morality and professionailsm have been put in doubt despite the fact that he has done nothing to deserve it and all the people that have actually interacted with him praise him for his professionalism and character. In this thread that is a month long and based on nothing new, Pogba has been labelled as a virus, a cnut, he has been accused of faking an injury, being a disgrace and having betrayed the club and his teammates.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Calling him a virus is hatred cut calling every criticism hatred is just plain wrong. I think he doesn't care that much but I don't hate the guy. He was an important part of the French team but not the best player or a star imo. And I don't remember him running like a mad man against Rochdale. All that is valid criticism. It's a bit silly to look everything about him so black and white. From both sides of an argument.
He'll be a footnote in the clubs history, yet some treat him like someone who's exit will mark the end of the club.
He’s a footnote in the history having helped win a European trophy & a domestic honour in his time here. You claim the argument shouldn’t be so black & white then marginalise his achievements. “He was a important player for France but not the star”, and? Why do people [some] have to be so begrudging with praise, if any.

I’ve not seen anyone on this forum say him leaving signals the end of the club the fact you’ve had to bookend your post with an unfounded exaggeration really does say it all.

You’ve said “calling all criticism hatred is wrong” which is correct but when has anybody said this or even assserted it. Posters are quite rightly pointing out that the level of negative emotion towards the man is disproportionate.

Can he not just be a good player who didn’t work out in the post-Fergie era; we’ve had enough cases of players coming with decent reputations, underperforming then going on to find form once leaving to not over-personalise this case to Pogba which is what often [not always] happens.

“I think he doesn’t care that much”, another assertion that can’t be proven aside fans becoming body language experts whenever he is involved. We see the man [when fit] twice a week on a pitch for 90mins with perhaps a 5min interview; he has underperformed our expectations as fans [end of].
 

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People mixing criticism and hatred. The reason there is a suspicscion of irrational dislike or hatred is because Pogba's morality and professionailsm has been put in doubt despiste the fact that he has done nothing to deserve it and all the people that have actually interacted with him praise him for his professionalism and character. In this thread that is a month long and based on nothing new, Pogba has been labelled as a virus, a cnut, he has been accused of faking an injury, being a disgrace and having betrayed the club and his teammates.
Just above is a post where
People mixing criticism and hatred. The reason there is a suspiscion of irrational dislike or hatred is because Pogba's morality and professionailsm have been put in doubt despite the fact that he has done nothing to deserve it and all the people that have actually interacted with him praise him for his professionalism and character. In this thread that is a month long and based on nothing new, Pogba has been labelled as a virus, a cnut, he has been accused of faking an injury, being a disgrace and having betrayed the club and his teammates.
Just above a guy argues that saying anything which isn't positive is hatred.
 

Jim Beam

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It can happen if football agents say it happens
Yeah, except you won't find any agent saying that. It would basically be a breach of contract too with Pogba being fully free to fire his ass along with compensation.

But ok, agree to disagree.
 

JPRouve

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Just above a guy argues that saying anything which isn't positive is hatred.
No that's not what that post said, he specifically mentioned the disproportionality of the negative feelings.
 

sammsky1

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Just above is a post where

Just above a guy argues that saying anything which isn't positive is hatred.
If you criticise Pogba you’re a racist and Islamaphobe, anti African and anti French and anti football and anti millennial and anti youth culture. Did I miss anything?
 

jackal&hyde

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He just cruises through games many times. And his heart isn't in it. For a while not. It's just my opinion and don't make such a huge deal out of it calling it a major insult. What the he cares to play part means anyway?
Not to mention his agent offered him around as early as 18 months into his contract.
I don't have to ask French supporters to tell me what I saw or didn't see while watching world cup games.
Sure, I'll rewatch it.. Guys like you are the other side of the coin to the ones who call him a virus. In your eyes he can do no wrong.
Maybe he just isn't as good as you want him to be though. He cruises mathces and gets in to the Premier League top 11, best assits in the team (and scorer but penalties and all that). By every metric you judge him on he is up there, up there in a team that was and is very much not "up there". So there must be something else. Do you have even bigger expectations? Is it the body language?

I'm sorry but the facts don't meet the reasoning. Had he looked more intense but had half the results in chances created and all that, would he "look" better?

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion because i want to understand what people mean when they say "he doesn't look interested".
 

Cassidy

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If you criticise Pogba you’re a racist and Islamaphobe, anti African and anti French and anti football and anti millennial and anti youth culture. Did I miss anything?
:rolleyes:
 

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He’s a footnote in the history having helped win a European trophy & a domestic honour in his time here. You claim the argument shouldn’t be so black & white then marginalise his achievements. “He was a important player for France but not the star”, and? Why do people [some] have to be so begrudging with praise, if any.

I’ve not seen anyone on this forum say him leaving signals the end of the club the fact you’ve had to bookend your post with an unfounded exaggeration really does say it all.

You’ve said “calling all criticism hatred is wrong” which is correct but when has anybody said this or even assserted it. Posters are quite rightly pointing out that the level of negative emotion towards the man is disproportionate.

Can he not just be a good player who didn’t work out in the post-Fergie era; we’ve had enough cases of players coming with decent reputations, underperforming then going on to find form once leaving to not over-personalise this case to Pogba which is what often [not always] happens.

“I think he doesn’t care that much”, another assertion that can’t be proven aside fans becoming body language experts whenever he is involved. We see the man [when fit] twice a week on a pitch for 90mins with perhaps a 5min interview; he has underperformed our expectations as fans [end of].
Sure he can be a good player whose time didn't work at United. I'm not marginalising his achievements at all by saying he wasn't a star in that team. He helped us win an European trophy but I thought it's a meaningless and a Mickey mouse trophy, according to cafe.
Of course he doesn't care thing can't be proved just as that he loves and cares about the club can't. Believing that is a tad naive. Yet he's treated like a player United owes something to. He doesn't deserve that of this posts I'm referring to.
There are those who hate him, agree but there are those too who treat him like a semi legend without any base.
And to conclude yes he's a good player whos time at the club didn't go according to plan. Which part of my post says otherwise?
 

Cassidy

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Maybe he just isn't as good as you want him to be though. He cruises mathces and gets in to the Premier League top 11, best assits in the team (and scorer but penalties and all that). By every metric you judge him on he is up there, up there in a team that was and is very much not "up there". So there must be something else. Do you have even bigger expectations? Is it the body language?

I'm sorry but the facts don't meet the reasoning. Had he looked more intense but had half the results in chances created and all that, would he "look" better?

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion because i want to understand what people mean when they say "he doesn't look interested".
It is obviously because he has said he wants to leave and they are hurt by that.

They won't mention him coming back from the world cup early to play, or playing without a preseason or playing through injury to help the side. There is no objectivity.

Personally I don't think he has been consistent enough in a United shirt, but even saying that it is very obvious to anyone with eyes that we desperately miss him in the midfield
 

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Sure he can be a good player whose time didn't work at United. I'm not marginalising his achievements at all by saying he wasn't a star in that team. He helped us win an European trophy but I thought it's a meaningless and a Mickey mouse trophy, according to cafe.
Of course he doesn't care thing can't be proved just as that he loves and cares about the club can't. Believing that is a tad naive. Yet he's treated like a player United owes something to. He doesn't deserve that of this posts I'm referring to.
There are those who hate him, agree but there are those too who treat him like a semi legend without any base.
And to conclude yes he's a good player whos time at the club didn't go according to plan. Which part of my post says otherwise?
Look, you're a big fan of his it seems so what's the purpose. He loves the club, he gives his 100 percent, is that all right?
 

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It is obviously because he has said he wants to leave and they are hurt by that.

They won't mention him coming back from the world cup early to play, or playing without a preseason or playing through injury to help the side. There is no objectivity.

Personally I don't think he has been consistent enough in a United shirt, but even saying that it is very obvious to anyone with eyes that we desperately miss him in the midfield
If you mean me no I'm not hurt at all. And I never commented on his professionalism. His consistency though is the problem as you yourself say.
 

Cassidy

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Look you're

Look, you're a big fan of his it seems so what's the purpose. He loves the club, he gives his 100 percent, is that all right?
Don't believe the poster said any of that
 

Cassidy

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If you mean me no I'm not hurt at all. And I never commented on his professionalism. His consistency though is the problem as you yourself say.
I'm talking about the ones who say he isn't interested. Its understandable that some fans think that of a player who has said he wants to leave.

Those that are pissed off by him saying that, I would say it comes from a place of hurt/rejection
 

Cassidy

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Well he sure means that, at least giving his 100 percent.
He/she meant what they said, that they are interested in the reason behind posters saying he doesn't look interested.
 

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He/she meant what they said, that they are interested in the reason behind posters saying he doesn't look interested.
It just looks like it to me. And it's not a Major insult or a hatred. I mean he said it himself he wants a new challenge. Jose leaving didnt help it seems.
 

jackal&hyde

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Look, you're a big fan of his it seems so what's the purpose. He loves the club, he gives his 100 percent, is that all right?
If you want it that way then ok. You are clearly not one of the "he is a virus" brigade and i hoped that you would share your opinion on why you think he doesn't care.

I'm not a fan of Pogba, or Ole or any other individual. I've been cured of being a fan of individuals the day Beckham left for Madrid. I was ten back then and since, i'm a fan of Manchester United and all other things, managers, players, they come and go. I find it stupid to be emotionally connected to players that are living a dream that me or you could not make happen in 10 life times. It's why i have such a poor view on fanboys i suppose.
 

kouroux

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Yeah, except you won't find any agent saying that. It would basically be a breach of contract too with Pogba being fully free to fire his ass along with compensation.

But ok, agree to disagree.
No one will admit it publicly for sure but that doesn't mean some of them don't do it behind closed doors
 

Cassidy

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It just looks like it to me. And it's not a Major insult or a hatred. I mean he said it himself he wants a new challenge. Jose leaving didnt help it seems.
Case and point, its based on what he said.
 

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If you want it that way then ok. You are clearly not one of the "he is a virus" brigade and i hoped that you would share your opinion on why you think he doesn't care.

I'm not a fan of Pogba, or Ole or any other individual. I've been cured of being a fan of individuals the day Beckham left for Madrid. I was ten back then and since, i'm a fan of Manchester United and all other things, managers, players, they come and go. I find it stupid to be emotionally connected to players that are living a dream that me or you could not make happen in 10 life times. It's why i have such a poor view on fanboys i suppose.
Fair enough. I'm not a fan of any player too so don't like to see when any player is treated like bigger than the club. As I said in a previous post I never doubted his professionalism but he tends to drift in and out of games. It's just that Pogba United story hasn't been functioning for a good while now and of course he isn't the only one to blame.
 

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‘I never commented on his professionalism’ ‘He just cruises through games’ ‘his heart’s not in it’
‘He doesn’t care that much’. A bit of a contradiction, no?
No. Not being professional is being late for training, getting drunk or something like that.
 

jackal&hyde

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Fair enough. I'm not a fan of any player too so don't like to see when any player is treated like bigger than the club. As I said in a previous post I never doubted his professionalism but he tends to drift in and out of games. It's just that Pogba United story hasn't been functioning for a good while now and of course he isn't the only one to blame.
We're on the same page i think, The part in bold gets me though. Why do we look at Pogba not functioning and not Lingard, or Young, or Matic or all the other players that are actually crap. Why not hope to keep Pogba and put some better players next to him. This is what gets me so to speak.
 

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We're on the same page i think, The part in bold gets me though. Why do we look at Pogba not functioning and not Lingard, or Young, or Matic or all the other players that are actually crap. Why not hope to keep Pogba and put some better players next to him. This is what gets me so to speak.
Cause he wants to leave. And there's always Raiola who will push him out even if doesn't want to leave unfortunately.
 

Cassidy

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No. Not being professional is being late for training, getting drunk or something like that.
Its not only that. a player not trying on the pitch or in training is also unprofessional
 

Tom Cato

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A new signing whose professionalism means he will play well 1 game in 8, and be half arsed and drag the team down for all the rest. Can’t wait.
Pogba was really good before he got injured, but whatever.
 

JPRouve

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Cause he wants to leave. And there's always Raiola who will push him out even if doesn't want to leave unfortunately.
That's not actually true, Raiola clients only move if they want to move and most of them don't move much when they are in a place that fulfills their needs. Pogba is 26 and only played for two clubs, Verratti only played for two clubs and while he has entertained the idea of leaving he never pushed for a move mainly because he somehow likes Paris nightlife. Matuidi only moved when PSG wanted rid of him and Nedved was never forced to move anywhere. This Raiola narrative is basically based on Ibrahimovic who happens to come from a small club and simply climbed the ladder like most players do when they don't have Raiola as agent.

So at the end of the day, you shouldn't read too much into these things because if United are on the right path, Pogba and Raiola won't push for a move and money is never an issue when you play for United(I believe that SAF said that to someone and it's still true, we pay as much as any other clubs).
 

sammsky1

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It is clearly worse though not that you'll ever admit it :lol:
:lol::lol: we are clearly worse
yeah, for 1 game in 8 when he has his bi-monthly worldie.
Barely know he's playing in the other 5.
And in 1 or 2, he has a mare losing the ball, and misses penalties and easy shots which costs us goals and points.
And when he plays, he has to be top boy, so everything has to go through him, which impacts quality and contribution of others.

Net net, no impact, and perhaps even worse.
 
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OL29

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No. Not being professional is being late for training, getting drunk or something like that.
That’s a very narrow definition, I think most would agree that cruising through games is seen as unprofessional.