I'm sorry but in the context of winning trophies we are not showing potential, if that's what you are taking issue with then there is a problem with your evaluation of current standards. The club himself has officially entered a 3 years rebuilding project.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
The "circus" and the "drama" is down to Pogba being an extremely high-profile player. His "brand" is worth more than most (third most "marketable" player in the world, apparently).
Which also means that it's quite reasonable of United to demand silly money for him.
I don't know what game Raiola is playing, exactly, with these constant comments and jibes - but he can't expect United to sell Pogba for peanuts just to accommodate him. By all accounts, Pogba would've been let go last summer if someone (Real Madrid or Juventus) had been willing to cough up enough money for him - but they weren't, and that was that.
Also, his SAF comment is bizarre on the face of it. He didn't catch that Fergie retired? Expected him to step in (in what capacity?) and veto the Pogba deal?
Which also means that it's quite reasonable of United to demand silly money for him.
I don't know what game Raiola is playing, exactly, with these constant comments and jibes - but he can't expect United to sell Pogba for peanuts just to accommodate him. By all accounts, Pogba would've been let go last summer if someone (Real Madrid or Juventus) had been willing to cough up enough money for him - but they weren't, and that was that.
Also, his SAF comment is bizarre on the face of it. He didn't catch that Fergie retired? Expected him to step in (in what capacity?) and veto the Pogba deal?
Where’s the Cole legend banner? I wasn’t talking about good players was I. Viv Anderson was a great player he’s not a United legend.
I’m not even saying black players we had need to be legends but I just asked the question. Don’t know why you brought up Viv could have easily said Rio.
Well said Bilbo. Yes we're a bit sh1t at the moment but the constant whining and moaning from many on here is unbearable.
Complete fantasy land, in our last 29 Premier League games we have a win-rate of 34%... "potential" my arse.
Showing potential? We are breaking negative records. We have unproven manager at the helm that no other club would hire who's creating a culture of medioctrity, we have owners who clearly dont want to invest the money that's needed to compete with the big boys, Liverpool are light years ahead of us and have the best manager in the world and City have also been far ahead of us for some time now and have owners who'll back their manager to the hilt to stay at the top.
There is very little reason to see potentials for us returning to the glory days. Do you think highly rated players who get courted by Madrid and Barcalona want to fight for the top 4-6 trophy for the next 4-5 years?
If there is a slight legit injury then I think Ole's comments have been very inflammatory and has set the fans against Pogba. I was pissed about the discomfort comments. I was pissed about his people have decided that he needs surgery. When I compile the comments, and his agent's recent comments, it makes sense to me now why he will say Manchester can destroy a good player.
Pogba does not want to be here, I get that, but Ole's comments have been incitant.
Pogba does not want to be here, I get that, but Ole's comments have been incitant.
Viv was a trailblazer in the British game at a time when racism was rife, yep you can add Rio as well. Sorry I’m not in charge of the banners but you won’t hear a bad word said about him by any united fan I know but he did play (for about 10 seconds due to his health) I’m the recent legend game if it helps you sleep at night.
Indeed.
It's an unreasonable expectation based on what sort of player he actually is. He's brilliant on his day, a player with extreme qualities, but he - obviously - isn't a "scruff of the neck" sort of player who can lift the whole team to heights beyond the sum of its parts.
The analogy posted above is quite apt: he's the icing on the cake. If you don't have much of a cake to begin with, he isn't a logical player to target. But we did - and here we are.
The feck is this?
Ferdinand, Evra, Anderson, McGrath, Cole and Yorke are top tier. If we are throwing legends around as freely as every other club seems to then you can count Fortune, Parker and the controversial Ince in there too.
The jibes are part of Raiola's personality, people shouldn't give them too much weight. In the interview that he gave to la Repubblica, he somehow managed to give great praises to italian football for their mastering of defending and also lambast them when it comes to nurturing young players that aren't defenders, particularly foreigners, once when talking about Haaland and the other when talking about Kean. He also had a dig at Juventus for their handling of Kean while praising them for De Ligt and using them as a reference for Pogba.
That's why I think that people should read between the lines here and not take things emotionally. He is having a go at the way United is managed at boardroom level because one of his clients is in his eyes affected negatively by it but at the same time he gives a solution to his grievances by suggesting that United should go back to focus on football and appoint a DOF in order to regain some direction that they lost since SAF left.
The issue with Raiola is that he is abrasive and if you give to much importance to his delivery you miss what he is talking about.
Pogba's time here is a sign of the times for is pos SAF. Players signed for a world record free, gets constantly picked on by the manager that signed him /the media and will eventually leave because he realises he cannot fulfill any of his ambitions with us. That hits home the mood among much of the fanbase. Thinking and going big for reclaiming our status as a top team, fecking about for some years doing nothing of note and eventually losing all hope of getting things done.
I don't think we're in as bad a place as many feel. But you can't blame players/fans for being disheartened when we make a habit of signing msifit (Mourinho ) or incompetent managers (Moyes and Ole). I think the right manager would really change our direction but until we make that move the club will be in a state of frustration and listlessness.
I don't think we're in as bad a place as many feel. But you can't blame players/fans for being disheartened when we make a habit of signing msifit (Mourinho ) or incompetent managers (Moyes and Ole). I think the right manager would really change our direction but until we make that move the club will be in a state of frustration and listlessness.
Every press conference, pre-match interview, post-match interview its usually the first question Ole gets. Yet another reason to get rid as it will only piss off him, other players and a lot of fans when he’s not even playing.
oh yes.. it's a circus; Pogba is the ringmaster
Viv was great but he can't be classed as a "United legend". Forest legend, no doubt. More of an Arsenal "legend" (doubt Arsenal fans consider him as such - they have loads) than a United one too.
I’d love for him to share his insight. He seems to know more about United internally than Woody himself!
We've sold better players than Pogba before, the only difference is we've never been in such a shambles before when selling an important player.
My honest view is that we should sell him, not for the fact that he's a mercenary, or a diva or whatever, or that his agent is a slime ball, but just for the fact that this constant media focus on Pogba, and the incessant speculation is tiring, and just adding to the negativity around the club.
Does anyone honestly believe we wouldn't be just as well off selling Pobga and buying a quality CM and CAM? He's just one player, a player that we have spent more time discussing how to fit him into the team and how to get the best out of him than actually discussing his great performances, which have been few and far between.
My honest view is that we should sell him, not for the fact that he's a mercenary, or a diva or whatever, or that his agent is a slime ball, but just for the fact that this constant media focus on Pogba, and the incessant speculation is tiring, and just adding to the negativity around the club.
Does anyone honestly believe we wouldn't be just as well off selling Pobga and buying a quality CM and CAM? He's just one player, a player that we have spent more time discussing how to fit him into the team and how to get the best out of him than actually discussing his great performances, which have been few and far between.
Viv was such a big influence at United that Fergie recruited to go on the 1991 cup winners cup final trip because everyone loved him even though he was no longer a united player.
Can’t see that happening with Pogba
Did he suggest this explicitly? If so, I obviously agree with him (as will most United fans, I think).
The Fergie remark nevertheless seems both unnecessary and - again - bizarre: based on the translated quotes, he says that Fergie - well - told him to feck off, basically, which was alright (fair enough - part of the game). But then he goes on to question why Fergie "allowed" Pogba's return, which makes very little sense, as Fergie was retired by then: it was Mourinho (under Woodward) who sanctioned the Pogback deal.
If we bought two top players, yeah of course we would. Likely though we'd buy Longstaff and Grealish and be worse for it.
The circus will be gone, but we'll be stuck with probably average overpaid british cm's with half the ability of Pogba. Unfortunately a lot of good players these days come with a circus.
Yeah, but he isn't a "United legend" in any meaningful sense - you can't say that. United have a whole host of "legends" - Viv was at United for four injury plagued seasons, he's pretty far down the list.
What, you mean like they did between 2003-6 when we were drifting without purpose under SAF? Rio is quoted as saying that he stayed because SAF asked him to trust him.
Sorry, you can't pass off your opinion as fact, when there is no factual evidence whatsoever.
Well I loved him - always happy to be here unlike someone I can think off
Genuinely think some of our fans care more about Pogba than the club. There's a very well followed unofficial United account on twitter that never stops tweeting and retweeting all stuff Pogba. Twitter users will know which one I mean.
I'd put up with the Pogba 'circus' if we got more than 10 good performances a season out of him. We don't though. He's been very inconsistent from the off and all we ever hear are excuses from his fans. Robbo played in poor United teams in the 80's and he dragged us forward. Pogba not a patch on Robbo.
I'd put up with the Pogba 'circus' if we got more than 10 good performances a season out of him. We don't though. He's been very inconsistent from the off and all we ever hear are excuses from his fans. Robbo played in poor United teams in the 80's and he dragged us forward. Pogba not a patch on Robbo.
He was playing basketball in America so I am sure he's not on a level of Batistuta's chronic knee problems. Plenty of players play through pain without doing long term damage, RVP did it for years, Smalling played with a broken toe. Not saying it should be expected but considering our league form and the general videos of him being active in a sports sense are naturally giving some supporters a concern that he's not really that arsed. Comments from him about wanting a new challenge and comments from his agent only bolster those feelings.
He is nothing of the sort! Pogba needs a team of brilliant superstars to do all his work for me, so he can the prance around and succeed in 1 Hollywood pass out of 5, which can then be VDO edited together with the few others so his agent and Fanboy's can get plaster all over social media.
mentality of a winner, my arse.
I loved him too - it ain't that. Seemed like a great bloke and there was a reason Fergie went for him even though he was hardly a spring chicken at the time - he was a very good and highly experienced player with a top notch resume. Didn't quite work out, but hey.Well I loved him - always happy to be here unlike someone I can think off
Still, people debate whether Ronaldo should be considered a "United legend" - it's pretty obvious old Viv ain't one in the grand scheme of things.
He wasn't playing basketball in America and it's totally irrelevant to the idea of playing through injuries.
Considering that a player isn't great is making excuses for him? And if you don't think that he is very good then it only strengthens the point.
The thing i find most concerning is that the medical team at this club couldn't work out he needed an operation after his first ankle injury back at the beginning of October, If it was diagnosed correctly it would have halved the time out injured.
No evidence? Keane got fecking fired.
Rooney only signed in 2003, won the FA cup in his first year. Rio signed in 2002 and won the league in 2003 and the fa cup the following year.
The mere fact you're comparing 2003-2006 when we finished 3rd (75 points), 3rd (77 points) and 2nd (83 points) with the current situation is absolutely mindblowingly dumb.
1 Hollywood pass out of 5 would lead to a goal.
Pogba needs a team of brilliant superstars to do all his work for me, so he can the prance around and succeed in 1 Hollywood pass out of 5, which can then be VDO edited together with the few others so his agent and Fanboy's can get plaster all over social media.
mentality of a winner, my arse.
But having players that pass side ways does not lead to a goal I am afraid.
You can hate the player, but most players that talented need players around him to help him.
He can't carry 10 men, if that is what you expect from him.
How on earth can you compare the two situations? You’re saying Ole should get the same benefit of the doubt as Ferguson? There was a reason Rio trusted him and that’s because he was a proven top level manager.
So you shouldn't expect much from him right ?
Yeah, in the interview made by Jason Burt. And I agree with you on the last comment, it makes no sense and seems stupid, though I didn't read the article.
I would actually disagree with this. I have seen Pogba single-handedly dismantle top teams. He dragged us into a game at the Eithad, scored two, and inspired us to victory. He smashed up Chelsea away last year. He has inspired us on many occasions. Some fans have v v short (and selective memories). Pogba is superb, but has been at United at the wrong time.. players, manager's, the executive set-up.. all just at the wrong time for him. I can't name any player (aside from Messi..) who has this lifelong commitment to a club. Difference is, United are no longer competitive at the highest level, and he probably thinks '....I frequently take all the blame... I carry all the expectation.. I score 21 goals from midfield, during a season when we were pretty dreadful... and play for a manager who doesn't really seem to know where he is really going.. I could go and play for anyone, so why not...? '.
Let him go I say. Take good money. I am actually more interested in knowing who we are thinking about to replace him, and improve the team with the money that we will receive.
Tbh, I think if Pogba goes to a functional quality team, he'll prove more often what he can do. He's not a 1 man midfield. At united the entire creative burden is on him. We don't have quality wingers, we don't have attacking fullbacks, we don't have other creative midfielders. He's the main creative outlet and he flourished more in Juve and in the national team when it's not all put on him.
Plus Rio had just won the league with Fergie! Then won the FA Cup and League Cup during those barren 3 years finished at worst 3rd on 75+ points whilst being managed by the best manager ever.
Keane couldn't deal with it still, and got himself fired for being so angry.