Is putting McT at centre-back a good idea?

[criticalanalysis]

It's really hard to tell without watching him play there more but his physical attributes suggest he could be a quality centre back. He's improved a lot in midfield but I really don't see him ever being top class in that position.



This is quoted a lot and unless he played there as a really young kid it's just not true. He played one season as a striker in the u23s when they had absolutely no strikers in the age group. He was a midfield player playing out of position and was pretty hopeless there.

He's not a good attacking player and struggles in tight areas because he doesn't have the required quality touch to play in congested areas. He needs time on the ball and would get more of that the deeper he plays.

His energy in midfield is really important to this team right now due to those around him but I don't think he'll ever be an undroppable player in midfield. Could he be at centre back? Maybe he could. He certainly has the right physical attributes to complement Maguire.

Are you basing that on his youth days as a CF or present? Bit harsh imo.

I don't think he's got a silky touch but he's got a safe enough or an effective touch because he's good on his toes and he uses his size/stride well when dribbling. Facing the goal (as a box to box) i.e in open space he's definitely improving his attacking game and it may become a weapon of his. I wouldn't say he's a poor attacking player though. The space he operates doesn't neccessarily need to be in those congested areas where one can have attacking output.

 

[SirScholes]

I don't know why the caf always find retraining players to new positions is funny. Especially if said player is average in his current position but shows signs that he could be great somewhere else. Lucky for those players below their coaches didn't have that same mindset.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...ed-after-changing-positions-henry-bale-pirlo/

I really like McT and very happy with his recent developments. Just think he'd achieve more as a CB than a midfielder.

Absolutely not, Henry and bale is not the same as moving from cm and cb, is this list of 13 players out of the hundreds of thousand example supposed to be anything other than an exception

Ask Liverpool what it’s like with midfielders as defenders

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I actually rate him more offensively than defensively

 

[Green_Red]

He's really tall, fast, pretty quick, very strong, brave, agressive, good in the air, good tackle. If you've played any football you'd know it's much easier to play as a CB than as a CM/DM. Any CM/DM with good physical attributes could be a very good CB, like Fernandino or Fabinho. McT is not top top on the ball but definitely much better than many CBs.

All he needs would be some experience there. He has played as CB for Scotland I think. And imo it'd be very difficult for McT to become what we need in the midfield. If he could be what we need in the back it'd save us a lot of money and would be great for his career as well.

What do you think?

Probably too late to do it now. But he definitely has the attributes to play there in a sticky situation, he's definitely adaptable enough to do it short term, just not as a long term option.

 

[mav_9me]

Why would we make our main goal threat from cm a cb. He used to be a striker for gods sake.

Considering McTominay has decided to become a scoring threat playing as a box to box midfielder, that's going to be a hard pass.

He needs to be slightly higher up the pitch, if anything.

He's scored a couple of goals, maybe retrain him into a striker?

Better yet retrain into both CB and striker and play him wherever according to injuries

 

[Mr PG]

His body has kept growing which usually affects a players lateral mobility...so yes his future is in CB. Scotland play him there for a reason.

 

[Tallis]

Bad Idea.

How many goals do you think McT can score inside and outside the box - 10ish? a season?

Bad Idea.

How many goals do you think McT can score inside and outside the box - 10ish? a season?

He has the same number goals as Martial this season playing from midfield.

I was kidding btw - I realize he is not Harry Kane.

 

[lex talionis]

I’m all for out of the box thinking...but the answer has to be no.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Too big of a club to do with make shift centerbacks. Get actual experienced center backs please.
We are probably the only top club to play inside forwards at striker, #10 as wingers Etc etc.. Im tired robbie

 

[POF]

Are you basing that on his youth days as a CF or present? Bit harsh imo.

I don't think he's got a silky touch but he's got a safe enough or an effective touch because he's good on his toes and he uses his size/stride well when dribbling. Facing the goal (as a box to box) i.e in open space he's definitely improving his attacking game and it may become a weapon of his. I wouldn't say he's a poor attacking player though. The space he operates doesn't neccessarily need to be in those congested areas where one can have attacking output.

Based on now as a midfield player. I'm really impressed with his improvement under Ole but he lacks the quality in central midfield to be anything but a good ball winner with solid distribution who might pop up with an odd goal.

He's a powerful runner both on and off the ball much like Phil Jones when he played in midfield but there isn't an ounce of creativity in his game or the ability to control a game.

I have no idea how good he is defensively in a centre back role or whether he's got the instincts and anticipation needed to play the role but if you were to name the physical attributes of Maguire's ideal partner it would describe McTominay to a tee.

 

[Stack]

I would prefer to keep allowing him to develop as a CM. He is slowly improving and has come a long way since he first broke through. We might find over the next few seasons he becomes the CM we actually need.

 

[roonster09]

He's not a good attacking player and struggles in tight areas because he doesn't have the required quality touch to play in congested areas. He needs time on the ball and would get more of that the deeper he plays.

McTominay showed many times how good he is in tight spaces when he just shifts the ball and starts dribbling.

Also on your other post saying he doesn't control games, players don't control games in their own. It's the system, so it's on coach/manager.

 

[GMoore23]

His body has kept growing which usually affects a players lateral mobility...so yes his future is in CB. Scotland play him there for a reason.

Scotland play him there because they're managed by a clown.

 

[rcoobc]

Hasn't he scored seven goals this season?

All from in-play, all with his feet, mostly vital goals?

No.

 

[The Original]

Don’t act on every thought going through your mind. Most of them are just that, thoughts.

It's a forum after all. What else are we to do on here but discuss our thoughts? Daft as certain thoughts may seem to others, discussion is the bread and butter of this and other forums.

On the topic, there is no need--he is becoming a very good midfielder and as you have rightly mentioned, finding good ones is harder than finding good centre backs.

 

[The Original]

He would be in the top 3 players at the club in terms of getting power into their shots on goal. He's too much of a goal threat to revert to a defender. This is why Ole will never try to mold him into a deffender.

As a young teenager he played as a striker so he has goals in his locker.

Ole will be thinking he can become a complete central midfielder if he can improve his decision making, range of passing and learn to pass through the lines more.

This is the one big area of improvement for me. He tends to run through the lines rather than pass through them which is a great attribute for certain occasions, but not enough.

 

[Bondi77]

Plays there for Scotland doesn't he?

Paul McGrath used to play midfield for Ireland and yet he is one of the best CBs ever to have played in England

 

[POF]

McTominay showed many times how good he is in tight spaces when he just shifts the ball and starts dribbling.

Also on your other post saying he doesn't control games, players don't control games in their own. It's the system, so it's on coach/manager.

Of course they do. It's one of the main attributes needed for central midfield players at top clubs. Know when it's most important to keep the ball, when to play forward, when you need to take the sting out of the opposition when you're under the pump.

Game management and game awareness is as important for a midfield player as being able to ping a perfect pass. It's what made players like Keane, Scholes and Carrick so important to United and it's also the main reason why United were so good at scoring late goals through that era.

When you see the current team camped at the edge of the box trying to play through a congested defence with clever one twos, how confident are you that McTominay can contribute to that? For me, 0%.

 

[roonster09]

Of course they do. It's one of the main attributes needed for central midfield players at top clubs. Know when it's most important to keep the ball, when to play forward, when you need to take the sting out of the opposition when you're under the pump.

Game management and game awareness is as important for a midfield player as being able to ping a perfect pass. It's what made players like Keane, Scholes and Carrick so important to United and it's also the main reason why United were so good at scoring late goals through that era.

When you see the current team camped at the edge of the box trying to play through a congested defence with clever one twos, how confident are you that McTominay can contribute to that? For me, 0%.

So you think players like Fernandinho lacked it and all of a sudden started to dictate the tempo from 2016 which coincided with City hiring Pep?

We had midfield of Rooney, Fellaini, Herrera dictating the game at Stamford bridge when Van Gaal was in charge.

Coaches control the game, it's how they set up the team, their core principles that's the difference. Brighton players didn't become technically superior players overnight, they started to dominate more games because they hired manager who sets up team like that. There are so many examples where just change of manager changed the way team is set up.

Ndidi went from the player with 75% pass completion to the player who completes around 85% and that change happened when their hired Rodgers, one more manager who sets up to control the game more often than not.

Rodri played for Atletico who averaged 49% possession, then he signed for City who averaged around 60% possession

Fabinho played for Monaco who averaged around 50% possession, now he dominates every team.

The change for everything is the coach they play for.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Only in games where we're playing some very negative lowly team and he has acres of space and loads of time.
In games he could get turned over, or have to deal with aerial onslaughts I'm not sure.

I think McTom would be an ideal emergency centre back, but for now he's needed further forward.

I think Matic's tight passing and retaining the ball under pressure is quite good actually, he just doesn't really have the speed or stamina for CM, deficiencies that are slightly more forgivable at CB.

 

[SirAF]

I don't know... can you repeeeeeat the queeestion.

You’re not the boss of me now

 

[Sassy Colin]

What a load of utter bollocks, he should be playing further forward, not further back. Where do people get these crackpot ideas from?

 

[El Zoido]

He used to play as a striker, we need to get him in the box more if anything. His goals this season prove he’s an asset in attack.

 

[POF]

So you think players like Fernandinho lacked it and all of a sudden started to dictate the tempo from 2016 which coincided with City hiring Pep?

We had midfield of Rooney, Fellaini, Herrera dictating the game at Stamford bridge when Van Gaal was in charge.

Coaches control the game, it's how they set up the team, their core principles that's the difference. Brighton players didn't become technically superior players overnight, they started to dominate more games because they hired manager who sets up team like that. There are so many examples where just change of manager changed the way team is set up.

Ndidi went from the player with 75% pass completion to the player who completes around 85% and that change happened when their hired Rodgers, one more manager who sets up to control the game more often than not.

Rodri played for Atletico who averaged 49% possession, then he signed for City who averaged around 60% possession

Fabinho played for Monaco who averaged around 50% possession, now he dominates every team.

The change for everything is the coach they play for.

Having a lot of the ball doesn't mean you control the game. Van Gaal's United rarely controlled games. They held possession but looked completely toothless offensively and susceptible at the back. That isn't control. Brighton, although they play nice football don't control games either.

For all of those years United were handing Wenger's Arsenal their arse, Arsenal usually had far more possession but United were in complete control.

Controlling a game is about having a feel for the game to understand when to press home an advantage, when to take the sting out of the game, when a risky pass is worth it. It's about playing the right pass at the right time rather than the quality of the pass itself.

Fernandinho and City is actually a really good example. Pep's teams certainly do control games and I agree with you that a lot of that is down to the coach. But it's also down to the players he selects and their skillset and ability. He fills the team with intelligent technical footballers.

Fernandinho was a more creative technical player at Shakhtar. But he wasn't good enough to play that role at City so they parked him as a defensive shield and surrounded him with De Bruyne and David Silva (or Gundogan, Bernardo, Foden, etc), the real control room of the team.

Fernandinho is the water carrier in Pep's team but he's still a far more capable game controller than someone like McTominay.

 

[Revaulx]

What a load of utter bollocks, he should be playing further forward, not further back. Where do people get these crackpot ideas from?

Physical stereotyping.

Big strong brave lad = therefore devoid of skill = has to play as a defender.

 

[spiriticon]

Scotland are using him at CB in a back 3 I believe, so he is getting that exposure there with his national team.

He is best playing further forward though, he is an absolute goal threat.

 

[roonster09]

Having a lot of the ball doesn't mean you control the game. Van Gaal's United rarely controlled games. They held possession but looked completely toothless offensively and susceptible at the back. That isn't control. Brighton, although they play nice football don't control games either.

For all of those years United were handing Wenger's Arsenal their arse, Arsenal usually had far more possession but United were in complete control.

Controlling a game is about having a feel for the game to understand when to press home an advantage, when to take the sting out of the game, when a risky pass is worth it. It's about playing the right pass at the right time rather than the quality of the pass itself.

Fernandinho and City is actually a really good example. Pep's teams certainly do control games and I agree with you that a lot of that is down to the coach. But it's also down to the players he selects and their skillset and ability. He fills the team with intelligent technical footballers.

Fernandinho was a more creative technical player at Shakhtar. But he wasn't good enough to play that role at City so they parked him as a defensive shield and surrounded him with De Bruyne and David Silva (or Gundogan, Bernardo, Foden, etc), the real control room of the team.

Fernandinho is the water carrier in Pep's team but he's still a far more capable game controller than someone like McTominay.

I gave example of players who didn't control games before working with coaches who sets up team to control the game/Midfield.

Maybe we both have very different understanding of what controlling game means (I think Jose's definition of controlling game without ball is just pile of nonsense). Fernandinho wasn't water carrier, he was the important piece in that midfield and City felt that absence when he played as CB.

Give the same ManUtd team to Pep, all of a sudden McT will be in the midfield dominating possession (if he gets selected) and give the City team to Ole and suddenly they will become counter attacking team, unable to build the game with possession football.

Btw Brighton controls and dominates most games, before they were hoof ball team. All they lack is a proper goal scorer.

Almost every team is a reflection of manager's play style/core principles. City had the same midfield, KdB, Fernandinho, David Silva and they were no where near as good before when it comes to controlling games. They weren't even the best possession team in league before Pep and averaged less than 50% possession in CL.

 

[RedIan]

I’m sure Jose played him at CB at least once if not more. I can see why its a thought to discuss. for me its a no, he is not dominate enough in the air which is a basic requirement for a CB, not sure his tackling is great either.
We already have the answer in Bailly imo but ole insists on picking Lindelof ahead of him. Give Eric a run of games and see if he can stay fit,. Axel still has potential to be a great CB but has made some unfortunate errors and confidence is low atm.

 

[Foxbatt]

CB? No way Jose.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

You’re not the boss of me now

Thank you!

 

[criticalanalysis]

Based on now as a midfield player. I'm really impressed with his improvement under Ole but he lacks the quality in central midfield to be anything but a good ball winner with solid distribution who might pop up with an odd goal.

He's a powerful runner both on and off the ball much like Phil Jones when he played in midfield but there isn't an ounce of creativity in his game or the ability to control a game.

I have no idea how good he is defensively in a centre back role or whether he's got the instincts and anticipation needed to play the role but if you were to name the physical attributes of Maguire's ideal partner it would describe McTominay to a tee.

My original comment was quoting you saying McT is not a good attacking player, which I'm saying is harsh and sort of unfounded as he's still growing as a player.

On the whole I agree with your points about whether McT has it 'naturally' in his game to be a controlling type midfielder and also agree that it's a product of the environment also as per what @roonster09.

However, those attributes can be seperate to whether he is good enough to be have consistent attacking contributions.

 

[Hughie77]

No, it's not needed, ok he plays in a back 3 for Scotland, hes better for us at CM.

 

[Foxbatt]

He didn't have good games as CB for Scotland.

 

[DoomSlayer]

He didn't have good games as CB for Scotland.

He didn't? Haven't watched them play myself but saw only praise for his performances for Scotland whenever there was an international break.

 

[Physiocrat]

I would keep him at CM but if I were to convert him to a CB it would be for a very specific position - RCM in a 352 where the LCB and RCB can get forward like Southgate's 352 in 2016. That way you can allow him to be an aggressive tackler and allow him to roam forward.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

He's really tall, fast, pretty quick, very strong, brave, agressive, good in the air, good tackle. If you've played any football you'd know it's much easier to play as a CB than as a CM/DM. Any CM/DM with good physical attributes could be a very good CB, like Fernandino or Fabinho. McT is not top top on the ball but definitely much better than many CBs.

All he needs would be some experience there. He has played as CB for Scotland I think. And imo it'd be very difficult for McT to become what we need in the midfield. If he could be what we need in the back it'd save us a lot of money and would be great for his career as well.

What do you think?

We (Scotland) have played him there over the last few games, and he has been decent, but tbh I think he could be a better box to box mf than cb.

 

[TwoSheds]

Not that I think McT's a CB but just as a devil's avocado, John Stones (and to a lesser extent the other CBs) at City is demonstrating that having a goal threat from CB can be very important if you want to win things. Stones isn't a particularly inspiring defender, although he's a lot better than he used to be, but he's really not afraid to step out of defence and create overloads in midfield and attack.

 

[OrcaFat]

He'll become an excellent midfielder

I think this is possible.

Although he doesn’t really play as one at the moment, I think he is suited to playing number 6, if developed with that in mind. If we keep Pogba or buy a ball-playing no.8, I would try McT as a proper 6. He can still be released forward later in games with a tactical re-shuffle. I’ve said it before (yawn) but I think he can be our Yaya Toure.

CB? Not for me, no.