Is Salah Finished? | Leaving at the end of the season... so yes.

RobinLFC said:
His return season doesn't shift anything, he was past his prime back then and it added little to his PL legacy.

Not a huge difference indeed. What Ronaldo has in his favor is that he was genuinely the best player in the world for a time alongside Messi, during his period at United, as evidenced by winning the Ballon d'Or, that's the big one where Salah comes up short. Team level success is comparable when counting trophies, although Ronaldo has one more league title, that's fine margins for me given the way Liverpool lost out against City a few times (you'll disagree here, fair enough). What Salah has going for him is his extreme consistency, he's eclipsed 25 G+A total in the league in every one of his eight full seasons so far, something that Ronaldo only did in 2 of is 8 seasons. Salah almost scored as many goals in his first league season than Ronaldo did in his first four seasons. I know age and experience comes into play here, but we can't remember Ronaldo in the PL as only his 2006-2009 spell either, his first three seasons were a learning curve on an upwards trajectory, which is obviously to be expected from a teenager.

For me personally seeing Salah as the catalyst of our turnaround under Klopp winning the lot was also pretty special, so that's down to club allegiance imo.

They are both in that same top tier for me where only a select few can be put. It seems crystal clear that most Utd fans will still prefer Ronaldo to Salah, but I do believe that most fans without a preference towards Liverpool or United will consider Salah as a bigger PL legend than Ronaldo, although I think a part (or a lot) of that is down to what Ronaldo achieved in La Liga with Real.
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I think his return, at 38 years old, does add to his legacy. 27 goals and 5 assists in all comps, 19/3 in the PL.

When you look at Salah now and compare productivity v age I think it’s worth mentioning at least.

It is fine margins of course, but Salah had his peak years in the PL whilst Ronaldo did not. Even then it’s still a tough decision which speaks volumes in my eyes.
 
Salah’s best ever PL season was arguably his first and he still couldn’t crack top 3 in the BDR rankings. Coincidentally, a 33 year old Ronaldo finished 2nd in the same year and was still vastly considered the superior player.

That same 33 year old Ronaldo is noticeably inferior to his 06-09 PL years so if Salah isn’t even better than that version of him, how could his peak be possibly comparable to young Ronaldo’s PL peak?
 
MrEleson said:
Salah’s best ever PL season was arguably his first and he still couldn’t crack top 3 in the BDR rankings. Coincidentally, a 33 year old Ronaldo finished 2nd in the same year and was still vastly considered the superior player.
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Scoreboard journalism. Ronaldo won the Champions League in 17/18, Salah didn't. Ballon d'Or rankings are not (mainly/exclusively) down to individual performances. Ronaldo, in total, had 44 goals and 16 assists in 44 games that season, Salah had 44 goals and 15 assists in 52 games (but 6 more league goals than Ronaldo and more league goals than Ronaldo ever achieved in the Premier League).
MrEleson said:
That same 33 year old Ronaldo is noticeably inferior to his 06-09 PL years
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As mentioned, he averaged a goal a game that season alongside 0.34 assists per game. In his 06-09 PL years, he averaged 0.59 goals per game, alongside 0.29 assists per game. That's also just looking at stats so I'm doing the same as you did above, but how exactly was he "noticeable inferior" in 17/18? Just because he wasn't as flashy anymore as during his early seasons doesn't mean he wasn't an inferior player, he was still at his peak at 33 years old.
MrEleson said:
so if Salah isn’t even better than that version of him, how could his peak be possibly comparable to young Ronaldo’s PL peak?
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3 peak seasons compared to 8 of absurd consistency.

I don't think anyone is arguing with the fact that Ronaldo is a better football player than Salah and reached a higher peak in the Premier League.
 
RobinLFC said:
Which player did Madrid come in for, Jonathan Woodgate or John Terry? Thomas Gravesen or Paul Scholes? When Salah came into the Premier League, he was already older than Ronaldo was when he left the Premier League. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
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Woodgate and Gravensen were cheap squad fillers. Ronaldo was the best player in the world and that's why they paid a world record fee for him.

Ronaldo's PL peak is a level above what Salah has done. And ok if people want to argue longevity that's fine but in that case Salah goes below Giggs who managed it for 20 years not 8.
 
MrEleson said:
Salah’s best ever PL season was arguably his first and he still couldn’t crack top 3 in the BDR rankings. Coincidentally, a 33 year old Ronaldo finished 2nd in the same year and was still vastly considered the superior player.

That same 33 year old Ronaldo is noticeably inferior to his 06-09 PL years so if Salah isn’t even better than that version of him, how could his peak be possibly comparable to young Ronaldo’s PL peak?
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Should also be pointed out Ronaldo's best season for us was a better goals per game rate than Salah's best season.

But I do get tired of all these comparisons, it's all opinion at the end of the day. You can't go on social media without these sort of debates every day. I swear it was never like this years ago.
 
Adz_99 said:
Woodgate and Gravensen were cheap squad fillers. Ronaldo was the best player in the world and that's why they paid a world record fee for him.

Ronaldo's PL peak is a level above what Salah has done. And ok if people want to argue longevity that's fine but in that case Salah goes below Giggs who managed it for 20 years not 8.
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There are multiple factors that go into a player's status as a Premier League legend imo. Peak performane and longevity are both important ones. Ronaldo > Salah on peak and Giggs > Salah on pure longevity, but it's a mix of a few different ingredients that make or break a player's case.
 
Carragher really knows how to create heated debates, the bastard :lol:

His quote is really just a roundabout way of saying "PL Salah > PL Ronaldo". That's really all there is to it. And I don't think that this is a crazy take at all. It's all about peak level vs consistency, and people will disagree about that.

"Overseas player" = no Law, Charlton, Best, Giggs, Rooney etc
"Attacking player" = no Robson, Keane, Schmeichel, Rio etc

Using those two huge limitations, I really think the top 5 is this:

1. Henry
2. Salah or Ronaldo (up for debate)
4. Cantona or De Bruyne (up for debate)

I don't think anyone who's not a United fan would rate Cantona higher than Ronaldo. And De Bruyne has played in the same era as Salah and I'm pretty sure most people would rate Salah more highly (but it's close for sure).

Then follows a list of 10-15 world class attacking players from overseas, but I don't quite think anyone should get ahead of these 5.
 
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SuperiorXI said:
It's just typical of the scousers to elevate their players to "best ever" even when it takes two seconds to dismantle the argument. It's criminal how underrated our sides in the 90s/2000s are today.
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This one is fair Salah has two all time great PL seasons, like two of the 5-6 best seasons in the history of the league, 3 time PFA Player of the year, 3 time top goal scorer and two time most assists, it’s hardly a crazy thing to say he is the greatest Pl player, most on here had him in the top 3 a couple years ago before his season ast season.
 
TheReligion said:
Ronaldo had a total of 7 years in the PL, 6 in his first stint, 1 during his return.

Salah will have had 9 all be it consecutive.

It’s not a huge difference when you look at it like that so if the main argument for Salah is time spent it’s easily balanced out by what Ronaldo achieved on a personal and team level during his spell at the club.
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Eh? I don’t think what United achieved with Ronaldo is necessarily better than what Liverpool achieved with Salah. Ronaldo has one more PL title, but Salah has two 2nd place finishes with 90+ and 98 points and 2 CL finals.
 
RobinLFC said:
You must hold up well in discussions about Bill Russell the GOAT NBA player.

I've also seen no one argue that he's the greatest PL player ever.
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There is a big difference between the early nba and the modern equivalent. Bill Russell is also criminally underrated.

Mark Ogden has an article saying exactly that on espn.
 
Nole said:
I feel strangely sad to see Salah leave. It feels like he's the final great legend of this Premier League era. With Kane, Son, and De Bruyne already gone, his departure really feels like the end of the line for that golden era of Premier League. I genuinely worry that we're losing the league's last true, marketable superstar.
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I think your find the golden era of the premier league was over 20 years ago.
 
Adz_99 said:
Woodgate and Gravensen were cheap squad fillers. Ronaldo was the best player in the world and that's why they paid a world record fee for him.

Ronaldo's PL peak is a level above what Salah has done. And ok if people want to argue longevity that's fine but in that case Salah goes below Giggs who managed it for 20 years not 8.
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I'm not sure anyone is saying Salah was even close to Ronaldo as a player, but I have no issuer with him being above Ronaldo in a PL only list. I think the PL list should really be players who spent their peak in the league. Kind of like how Suarez is head and shoulders above Salah as an attacker but Salah is above him in the PL only list.

I agree re Giggs and sadly this is just the effect of time, people forget. Giggs was genuinely seen as the best LW in the world for a very long time, arguably longer than Salah has even been in the PL, he was about as consistent as you can be and dominated the PL both with trophies and his numbers were very good for a classic winger. Spare a thought for Shearer, a guy who spent most of his career at a good but not elite club and has back to back to back 30+ league goal seasons (Salah only hit 30 once in his whole time at Pool) and these days is an afterthought.
 
harms said:
He was 5th the year before (and really should've been higher but it was an odd year in terms of media coverage, he was City's best player that year and they've had 2 players ahead of him; the amount of votes that Messi got for his WC performance a year after — yes, those who have voted did explain their vote in a hilarious manner — was also farcical). And the year after he tore his ACL.
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Yes, but the point remains that he was not near to winning it apart from in one year.

The Ballon D'Or is a dodgy metric because of the politics involved. But my thing with it is that if something happens consistently over years in the voting, it is probably indicative of some kernel of truth.

Like for example, people say stuff like "Michael Owen won the Ballon D'Or and Thierry Henry didn't, but Michael Owen was clearly not a better player than Thierry Henry." Which is true. But if Michael Owen was good enough to have won the Ballon D'Or 3 times, his argument for being better is suddenly a lot stronger.

My point was that Ronaldo basically became the best or second best player in the world whilst in the Premier league, and this was reflected by him consistently being first or second in the BDO voting. Salah was at no point the best player in the world.
 
Of course Salah is both a Liverpool club legend and a general Premier Legend. He was an elite, undisputedly world class player for a decent stretch. In his first season, after Liverpool signed him despite him only being their second choice target after Julian Brandt (I think), he scored a then record 32 Premier League goals in a 38 season (bettering Shearer excluding his haul in a 42 game season, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo etc.).

I agree that he was never the best player in the world at any stage (though he was still incredible). Also he scored 0 non-penalty goals in finals for club and country right? And I think he only scored 3 non-penalty goals in the semi-final matches that his teams won to reach those finals (2 of which I think came in the 1st leg vs. Roma in the CL in 2018). He did score a lot of goals in big Premier League games against fellow heavyweights, but I think that record in finals does carry some weight in comparisons vs. other legends.

2022 could have been a glorious year for him, the best of his career. However it was full of bitter blows, as he lost in:

- The AFCON final to a Senegal team including his Liverpool team-mate Mane. At that stage of his career, a first AFCON title probably would have meant even more to him than either a 2nd Premier League title or 2nd Champions League title.
- A decisive World Cup qualification play-off against the same Senegal team around 6 weeks later. Participating in any World Cup while properly healthy would have been huge (he went into the 2018 still carrying a shoulder injury). Participating in the first ever World Cup in the Arab world would have been absolutely gargantuan for him.
- The Premier League title race, as he was denied a first title win with fans in the stadium and a proper celebration. Liverpool and him were given a huge amount of hope when City went 2-0 down against Villa. He scored to put Liverpool ahead in their final game against Wolves, thinking that it could potentially seal the title, before soon learning that City had fought back to lead 3-2.
- The Champions League final. IMO he seemed a bit too 'hell-bent' on revenge after what happened 4 years earlier in Kyiv. I know that going into that final, Real Madrid were more worried about Mane than him, thinking that Mendy would be able to contain him.
 
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RobinLFC said:
Scoreboard journalism. Ronaldo won the Champions League in 17/18, Salah didn't. Ballon d'Or rankings are not (mainly/exclusively) down to individual performances. Ronaldo, in total, had 44 goals and 16 assists in 44 games that season, Salah had 44 goals and 15 assists in 52 games (but 6 more league goals than Ronaldo and more league goals than Ronaldo ever achieved in the Premier League).
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You could argue Salah was better in league play that season but Ronaldo absolutely blew him out of the water when it came to the CL and he was also better at the World Cup.
RobinLFC said:
As mentioned, he averaged a goal a game that season alongside 0.34 assists per game. In his 06-09 PL years, he averaged 0.59 goals per game, alongside 0.29 assists per game. That's also just looking at stats so I'm doing the same as you did above, but how exactly was he "noticeable inferior" in 17/18? Just because he wasn't as flashy anymore as during his early seasons doesn't mean he wasn't an inferior player, he was still at his peak at 33 years old.
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I didn’t just look at stats though? I just mentioned Ronaldo was better overall in 17/18 than Salah if you factor in all competitions. If you analyse Ronaldo’s game empirically, he was better from 06-09 than 17/18.
And in 17/18 he was still better than Salah overall.
RobinLFC said:
3 peak seasons compared to 8 of absurd consistency.

I don't think anyone is arguing with the fact that Ronaldo is a better football player than Salah and reached a higher peak in the Premier League.
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Pretty sure Salah had some pretty meh seasons in that 8 that isn’t remotely comparable to Ronaldo 06-09.
 
MrEleson said:
You could argue Salah was better in league play that season but Ronaldo absolutely blew him out of the water when it came to the CL and he was also better at the World Cup.
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Nah. They both had 5 goals in the knock-outs (Salah zero penalties, Ronaldo two), and Salah was extremely important for us in basically every tie. "Blew him out of the water" is a complete exaggeration - especially if you take into account he was forced off in the final very early into the game while he was by far our best and most impactful player that season.

And Portugal is miles better than Egypt, while Portugal wasn't particularly impressive either. Salah scored both of Egypt's goals at the tournament. We're going off topic with that discussion though.
MrEleson said:
I didn’t just look at stats though? I just mentioned Ronaldo was better overall in 17/18 than Salah if you factor in all competitions. If you analyse Ronaldo’s game empirically, he was better from 06-09 than 17/18.
And in 17/18 he was still better than Salah overall.
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Don't necessarily disagree with that no.
MrEleson said:
Pretty sure Salah had some pretty meh seasons in that 8 that isn’t remotely comparable to Ronaldo 06-09.
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Not really, his output is ridiculous in every season. A 18 goals, 10 assist season or 22 goals, 5 assist season were probably his worst ones. Can't be compared with Ronaldo's first three in the league.

I've already made my point a few times in this thread, Ronaldo is likely the best footballer to have every played in the PL, and reached a higher peak than anyone else. But he "only" had three seasons that are really up there, and more importantly he spent his prime abroad and for most fans, hardcore or casual, his legacy is linked to La Liga and Real Madrid, not even United - let alone his stint in the Premier League. Someone like Modric, for example, is a legend of the game but I wouldn't even consider him a PL legend at all. And I know that's not really a good comparison because he didn't win 3 league titles but just someone that came to mind.

That's why I think Salah is a bigger PL legend, but even then it's fine margins and I wouldn't fault anyone still picking Ronaldo over him, which speaks volumes about how insanely good Ronaldo is/was.
 
RobinLFC said:
Nah. They both had 5 goals in the knock-outs (Salah zero penalties, Ronaldo two), and Salah was extremely important for us in basically every tie. "Blew him out of the water" is a complete exaggeration - especially if you take into account he was forced off in the final very early into the game while he was by far our best and most impactful player that season.

And Portugal is miles better than Egypt, while Portugal wasn't particularly impressive either. Salah scored both of Egypt's goals at the tournament. We're going off topic with that discussion though.

Don't necessarily disagree with that no.

Not really, his output is ridiculous in every season. A 18 goals, 10 assist season or 22 goals, 5 assist season were probably his worst ones. Can't be compared with Ronaldo's first three in the league.

I've already made my point a few times in this thread, Ronaldo is likely the best footballer to have every played in the PL, and reached a higher peak than anyone else. But he "only" had three seasons that are really up there, and more importantly he spent his prime abroad and for most fans, hardcore or casual, his legacy is linked to La Liga and Real Madrid, not even United - let alone his stint in the Premier League. Someone like Modric, for example, is a legend of the game but I wouldn't even consider him a PL legend at all. And I know that's not really a good comparison because he didn't win 3 league titles but just someone that came to mind.

That's why I think Salah is a bigger PL legend, but even then it's fine margins and I wouldn't fault anyone still picking Ronaldo over him, which speaks volumes about how insanely good Ronaldo is/was.
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Fair enough, you generally made some good points but I don’t know if I agree with the bolded.

Ronaldo’s first stint in the PL had a monumental impact on an entire generation of kids growing up. Everyone at school tried to copy his trademark FKs, the spiky gelled hair, the tricks, the dribbles. He inspired many globally at a time when United were the most popular club on earth. (I would rank us 3rd now behind Real Madrid and Barca). He was also the spearhead and talisman of one of the most successful periods in the club’s history. You can’t think of that 06-09 period and not think of the revered “‘08 Ronaldo”. That AIG kit with the white stripe on the back, the mercurials, etc
Many people today still remember that period just from those signature items.

You could argue that Ronaldo in his first stint at United and the later one at Madrid has a completely different set/generation of followers.

His PL legacy left a massive cultural impact and this is before even mentioning the personal and collective accolades.
 
Salah being so good and world class that 2 post premier league winning seasons have been a damp squib.

No winning mentality to show he and his stupid fecking Liverpool have the ability to retain the title and show they are capable of it.

Comparing him to Ronaldo who was instrumental in winning the league 3 times in a row and doing the league and champions league double in the same season.

98 and 99 points etc and similar crap is all well and good in this era of sports science, travel comfort for far away matches, multiple star players in every position and millions to show up and kick the ball.

Feck off with this nonsense.

Also Henry is one of the best but not the best Premier League player. That would absolutely be Rooney.

Feck off everyone.
 
Keep reading about salah being used in swap deals for incoming players, was it not already announced his contract is being terminated early by mutual consent at end of season?
 
His fall off this season is stark - however, he was like that for the 2nd half of last season. Got a huge pay day and new deal based on what he did at the start of the season and Slot is then the bad guy if he dropped him because of his form.

Been a very good player for Liverpool but all this nonsense about him being the greatest PL player are so wide of the mark. Was a good player in a good team that didn’t actually win much in comparison to the true greats.
 
Remember how many were saying he could break Shearer's recordn in a few more seasons. Damn. A footballer drop-off at 32-34 is so stark. Last season he was firing on all cylinders and now he looks so disjointed.
 
He absolutely despises that bald penis Slot doesnt he.

And I absolutely despise this prick and his stupid media outbursts/statements. I hope Slot benches him in the final game and doesnt bring him on at all. No final goodbye for Mo.
 
Ayoba said:
He absolutely despises that bald penis Slot doesnt he.

And I absolutely despise this prick and his stupid media outbursts/statements. I hope Slot benches him in the final game and doesnt bring him on at all. No final goodbye for Mo.
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It’s his slightly more subtle version of doing a Ronaldo.

He’s right though. If anyone thinks what had been going on under Slot is good enough then they are delusional.
 
Going out on a real low and no admission of his appalling part in it all.
 
Rossa said:
It’s his slightly more subtle version of doing a Ronaldo.

He’s right though. If anyone thinks what had been going on under Slot is good enough then they are delusional.
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Nobody thinks so. Not even the coach and he’s said it many times. It’s disrespectful imo.
 
Sandikan said:
Going out on a real low and no admission of his appalling part in it all.
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Can guarantee he'll get a great send off on Sunday.

Slot's reception will be lukewarm at best, terrible at worst if we somehow chuck CL football away.
 
Salah should keep his mouth shut until he has gone, plenty of time then to say his piece and it doesn't help anyone saying it now. Slot should bench the cnut in the game against Brentford.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Can guarantee he'll get a great send off on Sunday.

Slot's reception will be lukewarm at best, terrible at worst if we somehow chuck CL football away.
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Salah is one of Liverpool’s best ever players. So the reception will obviously be different. It doesn’t make him right here. And I don’t think the poster was referring to his reception but rather the manner in which he’s leaving.
 
Adisa said:
Salah is one of Liverpool’s best ever players. So the reception will obviously be different. It doesn’t make him right here. And I don’t think the poster was referring to his reception but rather the manner in which he’s leaving.
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Spot on. His little outburst in Jan was bad enough, but this is pretty silly with one game left.
 
Adisa said:
Salah is one of Liverpool’s best ever players. So the reception will obviously be different. It doesn’t make him right here. And I don’t think the poster was referring to his reception but rather the manner in which he’s leaving.
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He's 100% right here. Also just to add Slot had a petty swipe at Mo a couple of weeks ago, just like he's made about Klopp and others. He's no innocent bystander and personally I can't wait til he leaves, just a shame the suits seem to want to wait until he's ruined next season too.
 
MrEleson said:
Salah’s best ever PL season was arguably his first and he still couldn’t crack top 3 in the BDR rankings. Coincidentally, a 33 year old Ronaldo finished 2nd in the same year and was still vastly considered the superior player.

That same 33 year old Ronaldo is noticeably inferior to his 06-09 PL years so if Salah isn’t even better than that version of him, how could his peak be possibly comparable to young Ronaldo’s PL peak?
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08/09 Cristiano had a poor season until April.

For me interms of general play and influence, 06/07 remains his best season. 07/08 was the birth of the goalscoring machine.

Salah's first season is amongst the best ever in the premier league. Ballon d'or depends alot on the champions league/ major international tournaments.
 
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