Is there a way back for Real Madrid and Barcelona?

Foxbatt

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PSG & City are a massive massive problem for them, they are for everyone really.
Long term, no-one can compete with a bottomless pit.
This is it. The Spanish government cannot compete against the UAE and Qatari governments. In the past they have done dodgy deals, especially for Real. Barca was running on the foundation laid by Cruijff. Koeman is no Pep and there is no Messi around the corner to bail them out. He is getting on now.
Yes the weather is always an attraction and I don't think the Spanish Press are so intrusive and hostile like the British Press so players may want to live there rather than in Manchester.
 

caid

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A lot of the players in RM's threepeat squad weren't very expensive.

They'll be in real trouble if all the young players they bought don't pan out, but that's a problem anyone could have.
Tbh your record with cheaper signings seems so much better than the big ones. Ronaldo seems like the exception to the Kaka, James, Hazard, Bale rule of not doing much to justify the wages and routinely being out performed by a youth player basically.. Picking up modric, kroos, carvajal, marcelo and so on for pretty cheap fees and the various youth team players seems a hell of a lot more impressive.
 

SCP

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Of course, but there has been a big shift whereby I can't recall a time where there was such a disparity between Real/Barca and the others.

It's not like they only have to worry about us or Bayern or Milan. There's 4-5 big teams with much better finances in England, 1 state run club in Paris and a very well run huge club in Germany that monopolizes on their homegrown and league talent.
They were able to pay big money for Galactitols over the years and that's been their trick. But now I really wonder how they can do it. Mbappe would be a huge statement of course, but no idea how they can have the financial strings to do it.
I am not saying you are wrong. But if you study football history this always goes by cycles. If you look into the mid 50's and the first hallf of the 60's Real Madrid was the dominant club in Europe and during the 70's or even the 80's they were always on the shadows of someone else, be it clubs like Ajax, Bayern, later Liverpool, or even during the 80's to the mid 90's always behind Juventus or Milan.

Barcelona was even worse, they only won their first European Cup Final in 92. This is nothing new, people are clearly overreacting to the so called Real Madrid financial crisis, the Barcelona one is more serious, but even that, now with Laporta back they will fix that. And don't forget those clubs have the capacity to keep the best players who come from their canteras, or even if they cannot sign the megalomaniac superstars their fanbase demand, they can always sign the best players of their league.

Never write them off. But sure, they will have to change their transfer policy, and Real Madrid already has done that. What's the problem? Liverpool also had a bad season and no one is going to say they are done, finished, will never come back, and do you think Real Madrid or Barcelona are finished? They have been top clubs at least since the 50's.
 

Kentonio

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But sure, they will have to change their transfer policy, and Real Madrid already has done that. What's the problem?
The same Real Madrid that are throwing around names like Mbeppe and Haaland?
 

SCP

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The same Real Madrid that are throwing around names like Mbeppe and Haaland?
They throw names every year, if you read Marca or As every day the best players in the world will come to them, Sport and Mundo Deportivo for Barcelona, will be surprised if Laporta will keep following the same policy as the former Barça presidents, regarding Florentino it's another history. When are the next elections at Real Madrid? If he feels his position at risk he will even sign Boris Johnson and Donald Trump on a full package. Make Real Madrid Great Again!

Some posters here don't understand the mindset of southern european countries regarding football management (or the overall politics of the countries). Don't expect cold financial rationality like a Bayern, or worldwide global marketing for the entire league like in England. No, it's Real Madrid and Barcelona who matters. In Italy it's Juventus and the Milan clubs, and well in Portugal even if Benfica or Porto wanted they cannot even dream to compete with this numbers. It's life. But they will survive, don't worry.
 

Hound Dog

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This is the second time in my time of following football the two Spanish giants have looked down and out and then came Messi and Ronaldo

Its just part of the cycle, they'll be back sooner or later
I would say that Ronaldinho is the one who really put Barcelona in the uppermost bracket. For all their prestige, they had a grand total of 1 CL before him.

As for Real, I do agree with you. I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I still do not quite understand why Ronaldo was so hellbent on joining them, given how superior United were at the time.
 

Teja

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They’ll be bailed out by the government in the absolute worst case scenario. They’re institutions in Spain, and don’t actually cost that much relative to other state owned enterprises and strategically important financial institutions.
This is entirely possible. Throw a billion each at RM and Barca and they're back in business for the next 10 years atleast. As to what happens 10 years later that's a different issue. Maybe they can twist the spanish clubs' arms a bit and have them renegotiate a fairer TV deal in exchange for the money.
 

kingwaynerooney

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Back from where? I don't think neither of these teams are down. Debt is not going to affect them.

They wll be back in QFs to SFs next year unless UEFA bans them
 

Cloud7

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Real Madrid and Barcelona have an allure that no other club in world football possesses. They'll be fine.
 

Nicolarra90

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Should be.... Is there a way back for football?



****Spoiler***** No
 

hobbers

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It's not even about finding a way back, all they have to do is stop spending £200m on new signings every summer and paying each of them 500k a week, for at least the next five years or so.

They will have to rely more on homegrown players obviously, and given that they both scoop up literally all the best talent in the whole country that shouldn't be too much of a problem. They're not in danger of ever missing out on qualification for the CL and they still have their tv rights and mega commercial incomes.

They probably won't be in any CL finals. English clubs, Bayern and PSG will dominate the latter stages of the CL for the next few years,
 

SambaBoy

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I still think young up and coming talent in the Brazilian league will go to Barca & Real. Real have proved that lately however their signings from South America have been a bit hit and miss. In terms of major talent already performing on the European stage, I'm not too sure. I think this is where Barca have got it wrong lately, the likes of Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann have been underwhelming.
 

Tallis

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On the footballing side, I think Barca can rebuild better as they already have the next generation from La Masia knocking on the doors. They need to clear the deadwood of which they have a lot - Countinho, Pjanic etc.

On the financial side, I think RM have less to worry. They will find the money somehow.
 

Daysleeper

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I still think young up and coming talent in the Brazilian league will go to Barca & Real. Real have proved that lately however their signings from South America have been a bit hit and miss. In terms of major talent already performing on the European stage, I'm not too sure. I think this is where Barca have got it wrong lately, the likes of Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann have been underwhelming.
Not true, Griezmann has been fantastic this season. Double digits in goals and assists.
 

Daysleeper

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I would say that Ronaldinho is the one who really put Barcelona in the uppermost bracket. For all their prestige, they had a grand total of 1 CL before him.

As for Real, I do agree with you. I would just like to take this opportunity to say that I still do not quite understand why Ronaldo was so hellbent on joining them, given how superior United were at the time.
Well it ended up working out very well for him in fairness
 

SambaBoy

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Not true, Griezmann has been fantastic this season. Double digits in goals and assists.
Fair enough. Haven't really followed footy that much this season, but just remember reading an article last year about how much he's struggling.
 

RedRonaldo

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Even they have no money now, they could still attract the best young talents before they become expensive. Plus they already have a few highly rated youngster in their team, they will do just fine. But maybe no longer can dominate European football for quite a while.
 

cyberman

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I'm sure similar was said about Serie A with Milan and Inter. Whilst drastic to even think about right now, I wonder how they can attract players with their finances relative to the other clubs.
I agree. If Madrid and Barca can attract big stars anyway, why dont they have them in their side as we speak?
It was all propaganda imo. Every world record fee with best in the world wages always had its my dream soundbite to sell the move, and it worked.
 

Suv666

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Redcafe was having this exact conversation about English clubs dying and Spanish teams dominating Europe forever 5 years ago
 

tenpoless

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Redcafe was having this exact conversation about English clubs dying and Spanish teams dominating Europe forever 5 years ago
Back then the sugar daddy clubs were still "young" and there wasnt a worldwide pandemic that lasted for 2 years.
 

roonster09

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Let's all laugh at Real Madrid's debt.
From their financial report.

The Club had total liabilities at June 30, 2020, excluding the stadium remodeling project, of €778 million (2019: €606 million). This, in addition to €533 million of equity (2019: €533 million) and the liabilities related to remodeling project of €123 million (€100 million of longterm finance and €23 million of short-term invoices payables), gives a total balance sheet value of €1,434 million (2019: €1,138 million). Liabilities comprise gross debt, trade payables (€174 million at June 30, 2020 and €207 million at June 30, 2019) and other liabilities, composed of provisions, accruals, and taxes (€195 million at June 30, 2020 and €€224 million at June 30, 2019).

The Club’s gross debt at June 30, 2020 excluding the stadium remodeling project, in accordance with Spanish GAAP, stood at €409 million, of which €205 million corresponded to bank borrowings and €204 million to debt relating to investments in players and facilities (2019: €174 million, of which €50 million of bank borrowings and €124 million of investments). The increase in bank borrowings was due to the finance raised by the Club to offset the cash losses caused by Covid-19. The increase in debt from investments was due to outstanding payment on investment in player acquisitions made during the year.
 

Dargonk

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It always baffles me when people post these types of threads. Real got knocked out in the semi's of the Champion's league, which would indicate they are one of the top four clubs in the world. Yet this thread makes it sound like they are struggling to stay relevant.
 

largelyworried

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Of course. Irrespective of their current financial plight, they still have more financial firepower than all the other clubs in the league and many other European club. They're attractive, particularly to players from southern Europe & South America. The lifestyle & climate is far more attractive in Barcelona and Madrid than in England, Germany & France. They can still attract the best talent from across the world.

The real issue is that they can't just chuck money at problems to make them go away any more, they have to build teams and develop players. But if they embrace that then, sure, there's only a handful of clubs in Europe better placed than they to succeed.
 

Sarni

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Of course. They are both huge and will not be away for more than 3-4 years at a time. Except for us and Milan all big clubs have basically gone back to being competitive very quickly after their short lived demise in the last 20 years.
 

largelyworried

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Yeah right. Those clubs would have to play each other in an invitational tournament at some flash stadium in the middle east for a couple of years to get a bit of cash, and - oh - suddenly, we have a fledgeling super league. Totally self defeating.
 

RoyH1

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They are the two clubs with the highest revenue. Even with debt servicing, there should be enough money left to build competitive squads if they spend it reasonably well.
This. I don't know why the Anglosphere is caught up in the narrative that the Spanish giants are on deaths door. Yes, Barcelona's debt is crazy and Madrid has a big squad renovation project to face, but they'll still be big relevant clubs that are ever present in the final 8 of the Champions League. They need to cut down on their expenses and stop giving those wages to players like Griezmann or Hazard that are on the decline.
They will not dominate like in the Messi Ronaldo days though. Those days are gone.
 

dove

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Of course they will. You make it sound they are as shite as we were in the past few years which they are not. Real just played in the CL semis, you can be sure they will be thereabouts next season too. They will never have any issues attracting best players, Real is the biggest club in the world after all together with Barca having the biggest revenues of all teams. They will likely have to live a couple of years without galactico signings but they will be fine, you can be sure.
 

kingwaynerooney

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I agree. If Madrid and Barca can attract big stars anyway, why dont they have them in their side as we speak?
It was all propaganda imo. Every world record fee with best in the world wages always had its my dream soundbite to sell the move, and it worked.
The biggest stars in the world Mbappe and Halaand both want Madrid. Neymar wants barcelona. They are going nowhere.
They still attract the biggest names. It is what it is.
 

golden_blunder

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Spanish football is declining. They have created a non-competative league by giving most of the tv cash to the big clubs. Ronaldo has left and Messi is aging. Madrid and Barca are both reportedly in financial trouble.

Oh well. Adios Amigos. Enjoy the huge ESL penalty from UEFA. :D
Funnily enough just like Scottish football which has rangers and Celtic always begging to get into the PL. how is that much different from real following the money to a ESL?
 

cyberman

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The biggest stars in the world Mbappe and Halaand both want Madrid. Neymar wants barcelona. They are going nowhere.
They still attract the biggest names. It is what it is.
Do they though? According to who and why arent they playing for them right now? All have made moves in last 4 years, all dont play for either Madrid or Barca. Dont go believing propaganda. Now they dont sign top players, they just tell you other team stars are huge El Classico fans.
 

VP89

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It always baffles me when people post these types of threads. Real got knocked out in the semi's of the Champion's league, which would indicate they are one of the top four clubs in the world. Yet this thread makes it sound like they are struggling to stay relevant.
Real Madrid & Barcelona have looked well off the boil for over 3 years now, and what's worse, it was expected. This is no knee jerk thread, we've seen a sustained, continuous fall in these two clubs to a level just below their peers. I honestly couldn't care less about Real reaching the semi's this year given their only test was Liverpool who are having a ridiculously bad season themselves. They actually scraped out of an easy group and were outplayed by a couple of underdogs themselves.

It's not a thread to look only at how shit they've looked over the past seasons but also looking forward. When they reached the bottom of the cycle, Barcelona turned to some tremendous homegrown talent + Ronaldinho/Messi. Real meanwhile were able to buy a whole Galactico side. But now the dynamic is very different as PSG, Chelsea and City have entered the fold making financial competitiveness extremely difficult. Both clubs look cornered right now.

Also, I'm not quite sure how long someone should wait before asking the question in the OP, they've been relatively shite for around 3 seasons.
 

11101

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Real have been in this situation before, a few times. The solution has always been to go out and spend a few hundred million on galacticos, knowing the Madrid government is standing behind them. They've done it twice in my lifetime but it goes back much further to the days when they went out buying players like Di Stefano and Puskas. Can they do it again against the bottomless pit of PSG and City? I'm not sure, but Madrid have overcome far better teams than them in the past.

Barcelona are different. They've always been a big club but historically they were not one of the European giants. That status came with Messi, and I expect it will leave with him. Unless they can find another cheat code like that i think they will slip back to their previous challenger status over time.
 

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They probably won't be as dominant in the next few years, Real may go back to how they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s, but you can't tell because they're such massive institutions...and.
both have gained huge a global following in the last 15-20 years.
 

smi11ie

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Funnily enough just like Scottish football which has rangers and Celtic always begging to get into the PL. how is that much different from real following the money to a ESL?
Why don't you try sticking to the topic. You are intentionally driving onto the pavement to hit a pedestrian.
 
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Dave Smith

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Spanish football is declining. They have created a non-competative league by giving most of the tv cash to the big clubs. Ronaldo has left and Messi is aging. Madrid and Barca are both reportedly in financial trouble.

Oh well. Adios Amigos. Enjoy the huge ESL penalty from UEFA. :D
Yeah, this is something the other leagues really need to address. The PL isn't the most watched league because of names and/or it's sugar daddy clubs. It is because the equal distribution allows the small clubs to be competitive. However, greed on the part of the big clubs, particularly in Spain, ha e blinded them to this fact.

They throw names every year, if you read Marca or As every day the best players in the world will come to them, Sport and Mundo Deportivo for Barcelona, will be surprised if Laporta will keep following the same policy as the former Barça presidents, regarding Florentino it's another history. When are the next elections at Real Madrid? If he feels his position at risk he will even sign Boris Johnson and Donald Trump on a full package. Make Real Madrid Great Again!

Some posters here don't understand the mindset of southern european countries regarding football management (or the overall politics of the countries). Don't expect cold financial rationality like a Bayern, or worldwide global marketing for the entire league like in England. No, it's Real Madrid and Barcelona who matters. In Italy it's Juventus and the Milan clubs, and well in Portugal even if Benfica or Porto wanted they cannot even dream to compete with this numbers. It's life. But they will survive, don't worry.
:lol: :lol:

Good points about the mentality though, this is lost in Northern European countries/teams at times.

From their financial report.
The funny thing is Real say they're not in trouble and will point to Spurs debt (which includes their stadium debt) but then discount their own stadium debt when trying to paint a picture of being ok.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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I am not an expert in finance, but I do know that it is a bit more complex than "big number = bad."

Real Madrid's wages-to-revenue ratio is, as far as I'm aware, reasonable (52% or so). They pay a lot in salaries, but they also have some of the highest revenues in football. Their transfer expenses have also been fairly modest compared to their reputation. According to transfermarkt, they're at #13 on transfer net spend since 2011, with a total of 321m spent. Until the ESL and Perez saying "football is going to end in two years," nobody was really saying that Real Madrid were in trouble.

Obviously, losing out on a ton of income from covid is a problem, but it's one that all clubs have.

Barcelona have been spending considerably more than Real Madrid even though their revenues haven't been massively different, which is part of the reason they're in trouble.

Do they though? According to who and why arent they playing for them right now? All have made moves in last 4 years, all dont play for either Madrid or Barca. Dont go believing propaganda. Now they dont sign top players, they just tell you other team stars are huge El Classico fans.
Barcelona signed Griezmann and Real Madrid signed Hazard not very long ago. Both 'top players.' As for other players, there's nothing surprising about that, Real Madrid and Barcelona have always had to compete with other clubs, plenty of great players have gone elsewhere.

Mbappe has not renewed for PSG yet, and it's very possible he doesn't. Neymar flirted with leaving for Barcelona a bunch of times. They have seemingly failed to win the Champions League. The PSG experiment of "bring the best (or potential best) players in the world to a smaller league" has not been entirely successful and I strongly doubt it's going to continue. The money only gets you so far.

Real Madrid and Barcelona have a nice advantage which is that they're in a competitive league but not so competitive. If you move to them, you are going to play in the Champions League, you are going to win titles, and people will pay attention to you, but you're probably going to have tough rivals too. The PL is too competitive if you want to play in the CL every year and Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are not competitive at all domestically.


When are the next elections at Real Madrid? If he feels his position at risk he will even sign Boris Johnson and Donald Trump on a full package. Make Real Madrid Great Again!
They were a month ago and no one ran but him.
 
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Vialli_92

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Real Madrid especially need a rebuild. I think they are lucky they have Zidane who looks he should be able to do it. A lot of their team are well into their 30's key players that have been there a long time that have not been gradually phased out and now they find themselves with a very aged squad that need to be moved on.