Yeah, debt shouldn't be a problem and also Madrid have lot of players who can be sold for good money.True, bit of a disjointed discussion
Anyways, debt doesn't really mean a club is in trouble. It's highly unlikely real madrid is in actual trouble, much more likely rather the club is currently paralyzed by it. Meaning Mbappé, etc are likely chimeras atm, unless we can shed significant fat off the wage bill(bale, hazard...) and sell some players for huge profits
Is there a way back for Real Madrid and Barcelona?
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
Flo was pushing the SL through banking on the FIFA bans on players in international competition for leverage against Bale, i tells ya 
They're already starters for a league contender, though. Dest, Pedri, Fati, de Jong, Araujo and Mingueza all earned their spot in the first team through performances. Moriba, Puig and Trincao are close. And then there's still Dembele. And a few are yet to come through from La Masia. Read that some are deemed even more talented than Pedri who's ridiculously good for his age.
A weaker league contender though. We were all told how great Madrids youth were when they bought 300m worth during Hazard summer and now look at them.
For all that take Messi out of that team and they'd be fighting Real Sociedad for top 4
You take messi out of the team all of a sudden countinho and griezman start looking good. They still right for the title or finish comfortably in the top 3. They won't be fighting for ucl spot
Yup.
Real Madrid were certainly helped by this operation, but it was legal. Florentino had to lobby the city to get this project approved, and he did so successfully. The lands were sold, the biggest skyscrapers in the country were built there. It was also during the construction boom, people loved building stuff.
There was some opposition to it, but I've never seen a truly persuasive argument for why this shouldn't have happened. There were some political and development arguments about what kinds of projects the city should pursue, and some concerns that Real Madrid would not actually move out of the lands but simply become a tenant (which did not happen atall) but not much more than that.
It looks more bad than it is because the most dodgy transfers are concentrated in the attack.
Valverde, Mendy, and Militao have shown that they're capable of being important members of the squad and can be starters now or in the very near future. Odegaard is hopefully good enough to be part of the squad too. The problem is Jovic, Vinicius, and Rodrygo not being good enough, and they're all attackers.
Last edited:
Coutinho is injured and Griezmann has been really good for them this season
It's still very much all about Messi though
Based on the figures you posted, Real Madrid's gross debt is still lower than United's net debt.
If they're in trouble, surely we're completely fecked? Am I missing something here?
This is my point, they were able to go out and get Ronaldo, Kaka etc. to propel them back. They don't have the means to do that as much, and even if they did the competing clubs are in more quantity (PSG/Chelsea/City). So getting say, Haaland to get them back to greatness is not a foregone conclusion anymore. It's a lot tougher.
Yeah maybe. I didn't say Madrid are fecked.
Cashflow. United is in debt because the Glazers put the credits they used to buy the club on the club books, and United has to pay for that - and is able to do so comfortably from the operating income/cashflow. This still holds the club back, as this money is missing for signing players etc, but it is not a threat to the club as such.
Real and Barcelona are in (ever increasing) debt because they inflated their operating costs and their income is to low, so they need more and more credits to keep running.
Debt is not a bad thing. The ability to sustain it is what matters. Manchester United right now are likely better able to sustain theirs than Madrid. Therefore they're in a better position
You didn't but it's the entire premise of the thread. The question is meant for anyone who can answer, not just you.
Both Real Madrid and Barcelona have higher revenues than United according to Deloitte's latest report. Over €100m higher, in fact. It's harder to find reliable comparative data on wages but it seems that while Real Madrid spend more on them than United, the difference is mostly covered by the difference in revenue. That's not the case for Barcelona, admittedly, mostly because of Messi.
I agree, Barcelona has a harder time financially than Real. But while Real seems to be able to pay their bills, they might not be in a position to make big transfers happen, at that at a time were their squad is getting older. So I think Barca have a higher risk of collapsing financially, while Real "only" have a high risk of not being able to rebuild their squad as quickly as they would like (I think that's the biggest reason why they needed/wanted the super league to happen).
Put it this way: let's day Madrid have 900M in gross debt, of which 400M are operating expenses(wages, etc) that roll over every year, the remaining 500M are expenses to third parties, of which they owe 100M before the end of this year, 200M in 2 years, and the remaining 300M are due in 5.
Revenue for the year is 500M. Which means that, at the end of this year their debt for the year(400M+100M=500M) is equal to their revenue. Next year then they would carry a debt of 700M, so unless they can raise their revenue by 200M, they'll be recording losses next year. This would obviously curtail the ability to make any extra financial operations, while putting significant pressure on the club to either increase revenue or cut costs
By comparison, United generate 450M in revenue and have 1B of gross debt, but the yearly debt is only a stable 350M over the next 3 years. This means that United not only have no trouble sustaining their debt, but they even have extra money they can use for new financial operations, if they want
Also close to 600 million will be added to the debt because of stadium renovation isn't it.
Madrid have plenty of young players to sell and reinvest. Covid market fecked it up for them as most of the young players would have fetched good fee.
You keep on repeating this like if hadn't been disproven in both Spanish and European courts. Post like this is why fake news never dies.
I was just making an example to explain it in very, very basic, layman's terms how it works
I think he's too young to remember the time when players like Hagi and Maradona would leave Real and Barcelona to join erm Brescia and Napoli. Money talks in football.
Yep, exactly this. Real especially have built this fantasy whereby football fans just want to watch them (and grudgingly Barca) and don't care about anyone 'lesser'. As if football is all about one team on the pitch and not the actual competitive game.
It's kind of amazing that this nonsense has somehow spread and led to the ESL idiocy.
but we have done poorly overall with squandering money from the Neymar sale, you’re right about that
I'm willing to bet they'll be "Back" before us.
Clubs that are interested in football find a way.
Clubs that are interested in football find a way.
Nice explanation, thanks!
Real just got Alaba for free from Bayern. So they are still a thing no matter what money they have, they will just do more depts.
Thats how it works since 50 years
Thats how it works since 50 years
To be fair, that has historically been the case in Spain. Real Madrid and Barcelona have always accounted for a mammoth size of the domestic fanbase
For sure, but he’s young and hopefully he’s ready by next season
They're facing a different rebuilding challenge this time, and they need to adjust their approach accordingly.
We've seen real madrid and barcelona go through long periods of not doing well in europe before, and as others mentioned, if it happened to italian football, it could happen to them.
They need to focus on potential, hire managers that can develop players, and spend responsibly. If I were them my focus would be on getting someone like Klopp before anything else.
We've seen real madrid and barcelona go through long periods of not doing well in europe before, and as others mentioned, if it happened to italian football, it could happen to them.
They need to focus on potential, hire managers that can develop players, and spend responsibly. If I were them my focus would be on getting someone like Klopp before anything else.
feck them. They’ve tried to bully their way through Europe for years. I would enjoy watching them suffer.
I think Barca are better placed in the short term. They've got a young spine with higher potential than the Madrid equivalent, and could maintain where they are or improve with a few key signings. Real almost need a complete overhaul and the GDP of a country to even begin. It's an old team running on experience.
It's not about who has the most fans though. If pretty much everyone you play is shit, then the football isn't any fun to watch. You know before you start who is going to win. The ESL nonsense was clearly a late realization of this, from people who refuse to accept the truth of it in their own leagues.
The pool of players is smaller now and competition for those signings have increased.
The best age to get said players is around 22-24, which will give them 5yrs to make their reputation. By 27, many PL teams with said players will resist a transfer and then by 29, Real / Barca buy them and they are already washed up.
The transfer market is different to 10 years ago
The best age to get said players is around 22-24, which will give them 5yrs to make their reputation. By 27, many PL teams with said players will resist a transfer and then by 29, Real / Barca buy them and they are already washed up.
The transfer market is different to 10 years ago
When it comes to money, it very much is about who has the most fans. Fans are the ones who spend money, fans are the ones the sponsors want to reach. Because we're not talking about starting from scratch here
English football was smarter, more farsighted then their competitors at the right time, and is now reaping the benefits.
The ESL nonsense was a realization that it is too late
EDIT: sorry, mixed up the threads
Anyways, point is still somewhat valid. Fans are the ones who follow the sport. Without fans we're left with grassroots football. Which, fair enough, it's valid to say that matters as much as the big clubs. It is a sport afterall
Mbappé’s contract expires next summer... and Real is his most likely destination.
They’ll need to offload the likes of Bale and Hazard though.
feck them! Hope they sink into mediocrity for years to come. The arrogance and sense of entitlement of these two clubs stink, it’s about time they were taken down a peg or two.
The idea of SL exists to help them and one of the funniest arguments was that, Madrid vs Barca always draw attention that the world stops. It's as if other big clubs would benefit greatly being able to face them regularly. When in fact, right now if Barca and Madrid play its not as interesting as it used to be anymore. Theyre known for their stars and once they have not enough stars, who gives a feck. Certainly not enough neutrals watching to make the world stops.
They're an equivalent of a canned food past it's expiry date and their shit league is not helping. When Perez talked about refreshing footbal what he really meant was refreshing Madrid. Thats why I really hope they fall even further, feck him. Greedy bastard if you club is failing dont bring others into your shitty scheme. You have enough money for what now? Mbappe? would he be enough? no. God I hope they buy Mbappe and he does a Bale.
They're an equivalent of a canned food past it's expiry date and their shit league is not helping. When Perez talked about refreshing footbal what he really meant was refreshing Madrid. Thats why I really hope they fall even further, feck him. Greedy bastard if you club is failing dont bring others into your shitty scheme. You have enough money for what now? Mbappe? would he be enough? no. God I hope they buy Mbappe and he does a Bale.
Sure but I feel even this won't be enough. Benzema, Kroos, Modric are all getting on. It's good they have Alaba for Ramos but as a team they just look miles off the pace.
Chelsea are a good outfit but I don't actually rate them as highly as City or Bayern. We are probably on a similar level to them, and Real in comparison looked levels below even that.
They’ll certainly need additional strengthening, but Mendy, Valverde, potentially Mbappé & Alaba is a very good set of core players. Add to that Varane, Militao, Cortouis, Carvajal, Casemiro & still quite promising talents like Asensio, Vinicius & Rodrigo...
City and Bayern look more promising at the moment, but if they get Mbappé it can be Cristiano 2.0 — not only in terms of the output, but in terms of his importance to all potential new signings. It can’t be underestimated how big of a pull does having a generational talent in your team gives you.
That all depends on the assumption that they’ll get him though, if they’ll miss out on Mbappé their rebuild would be much, much harder.
Courtois
Carvajal/Odriozola
Militao/Nacho
Varane/Alaba
Mendy/??
Casemiro/??
Kroos/Modric
Valverde/??
Vini/Rodrygo
Benzema/Jovic
Asensio/Odegaard
Plus: Ceballos, Vallejo, Kubo, Reinier, Brahim, Mayoral coming back from loans
Hazard, Bale, Isco, Marcelo, out of the project
Promising youngsters who had minutes this season, Blanco(DM), Arribas(Mid), Miguel(LB)
We need a dynamic midfielder, a RB(if you really don't renew Lucas), a LB, and a star in attack to partner Benzema
Odriozola, Ceballos, Vallejo, Brahim and Mayoral are all players we should be trying to sell. If we sign a forward, at least one of Jovic/Odegaard/Asensio/Vini/Rodrygo should be sold as well
2 years from now we might need a more in depth rebuild, but for now, we need 4 players. Perhaps fewer
Carvajal/Odriozola
Militao/Nacho
Varane/Alaba
Mendy/??
Casemiro/??
Kroos/Modric
Valverde/??
Vini/Rodrygo
Benzema/Jovic
Asensio/Odegaard
Plus: Ceballos, Vallejo, Kubo, Reinier, Brahim, Mayoral coming back from loans
Hazard, Bale, Isco, Marcelo, out of the project
Promising youngsters who had minutes this season, Blanco(DM), Arribas(Mid), Miguel(LB)
We need a dynamic midfielder, a RB(if you really don't renew Lucas), a LB, and a star in attack to partner Benzema
Odriozola, Ceballos, Vallejo, Brahim and Mayoral are all players we should be trying to sell. If we sign a forward, at least one of Jovic/Odegaard/Asensio/Vini/Rodrygo should be sold as well
2 years from now we might need a more in depth rebuild, but for now, we need 4 players. Perhaps fewer
They have some short/medium term cashflow issues with wages and player instalments.
Once those work through, they should be able to build again, IMO. They have certain advantages, and will remain the biggest teams Spain whatever the league table says in the short term.
Barcelona also have a world class youth system.
So there is a way back, but it might take a few years. If Madrid try to put a bandage on their problems by overspending on Mbappé, Pogba and or Haaland, then it might take them longer.
Once those work through, they should be able to build again, IMO. They have certain advantages, and will remain the biggest teams Spain whatever the league table says in the short term.
Barcelona also have a world class youth system.
So there is a way back, but it might take a few years. If Madrid try to put a bandage on their problems by overspending on Mbappé, Pogba and or Haaland, then it might take them longer.
Last edited: