Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?

Empire

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Perhaps we'll finally click next season – as I keep saying, stranger things have happened. But it remains a fact that his United stint stands out in his career so far – for the wrong reason: There hasn't been a good run, a period of grace, nothing more than a whisper of it (a handful of matches where we didn't seem to adhere to the default system at that, which makes it even harder to grasp what he's up to) – and we're fast approaching two full seasons of his management.
What he's up to? It's pretty clear to me, in a nutshell, very briefly:

4-2-3-1 with a profile for each position, clearly identifying a player who he thinks is of the level required for each position.

Now it's at a point where we need only quality and so he is identifying a player he considers to be one of the best in his age group and going for him. Obviously in a position where we need.

Forming a clear link between youth team and first team so players currently in the youth team can show in the first team what their potential is.

Promoting early the potential talent so you can start developing them, this could be the difference between a player developing to Xavi level or Xabi-Alonso or the difference between a player that doesn't make the cut or does like Pedro.

Tactically he wants to use a patient positional game that he thinks will work well in the big matches, the matches against smaller sides we train this system so the team is fully prepared, in the small matches the system will therefore rely on individual brilliance to break down the parked bus.

Youth education from a young level with the vision of how the team will play drilled from a young age.

--

If he wins something then he wins something and if he doesn't then he doesn't, the work that he's done will still be in place, the blueprint of the club he wants is clear, to me it's sensible and so important this work is continued:

Fill out the 4-2-3-1 with players matching the profile e.g. Stones to partner Smalling and complete the backline of De Gea / Shaw / Smalling and Darmian.

Obviously such a player will have serious potential but in the short term don't lower our standards, if we have to wait for the right player to come along then so be it.

Continue to scout the best players in the world, accurately identify the best player in his age group and time it so when he is ready for the step up we go for him.

Maintain a small squad so players in the youth team will get chances to show what they can do and obviously in the first team play the players on merit so if a young player performs he keeps his place on merit.

The very best of our youth team, promote them early and play them in their actual position to develop them. This also helps energise the existing squad by adding new blood in addition to the key signing (or two) each summer.

Tactically use small matches to train how we would play in the big games so we are fully prepared relying on individual brilliance to break down the smaller sides (something we have lacked in this regime but in the past players like Robben / Ribery, Rivaldo / Figo, Litmanen / Overmars etc. mean't he was able to do that, but he has signed the players needed for this).

Educate the young players early, an amazing thing about Ajax 95 was that even though they were the joint youngest team in history to win the champions league, they also had spent more time playing together than any other side that has won it because of how early they joined their academy.

It's also important to have quality players in addition to coaching in the academy and this needs to be looked at, combined with the above part of the philosophy of giving youth a chance to show their skill and promoting early signs of talent, we could develop top top players.

I understand the above isn't what some posters want and that's fair enough, everybody has a different view of what makes a good club, I'm just saying I like this way of doing things and even though the results on the pitch haven't shown, that will come.

Should he stay or should he go? Honestly I don't care, if he was a young Louis van Gaal I'd say keep him, now I don't care he has put down the blueprint and it's in motion, we don't need him for that anymore, we do need to continue the work though so his successor should be chosen wisely or his powers limited (combined with a director of football).

I'm not sure what the board is thinking.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Yeah, I don't know what to respond to that.

I don't think it would serve any purpose to, say, try and counter what could be seen as your excessive optimism with - well - professed realism (or actual pessimism), because you aren't actually an (excessive) optimist. You're a believer of some kind, that's how you come across to me. You're convinced he has laid the framework for inevitable success, and that if everything else fails, Lingard will probably become a world beater.

I can't argue with that – literally not. So, I'll just repeat what I said initially: I hope you're right.
 

Spock

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I don't have a problem with the "Van Gaal has laid a solid foundation" thesis but it should be clear by now that more could have been done already to establish that foundation.

Rooney has been dire for most of the season and there's no reason to believe that he will return to his 09/10 form ever again. We're in trouble as long as we are so heavily reliant on Rooney. Right now, he's in form but how long can that possibly last? And even then his good form now really isn't that impressive for a supposed top striker.

We have two aging, though still productive, central midfielders, but how much longer can they last? Had we been a realistic contender for the league trophy this season I could see running Carrick and Schweinsteiger as hard as they could be run, but they're hardly two for the future.

Our CB problem was one that was well known last summer and must be addressed in the summer.

We're probably looking at 3, perhaps 4 players that will be required next summer. And that's if De Gea stays, which in fairness is out of LVG's control anyway.

Of the current squad, we have lots of depth but where is the top quality?

De Gea, Smalling, Shaw and Martial are all I can see as top quality. Perhaps Schneiderlin and Herrera next season. As abysmal as he's been this season, perhaps Memphis too. But Rooney is a passenger more often than not and Mata gets lost in too many matches.

Realistically, we still need a top quality forward, central defender and possibly central midfielder. And we need to adopt tactics that suit the league.
 

acnumber9

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The only 'foundation' he has laid is Martial. And even that was at the arse end of the transfer window. The midfield still needs work. The defence still needs work. The less said about the attack the better.
 

sunama

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I'm not an LVG defender, but LVG has done a good job with our midfield and defence (helped by having arguably the best GK in the World), however, our problems in all competitions have been the inability to score goals.
Lets not forget that scoring goals is the most important aspect of a football match. This alone has been his undoing.
Had his attackers been able to score goals at an average rate (we are below average), I think we'd be on a title run.
 

JPRouve

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I'm not an LVG defender, but LVG has done a good job with our midfield and defence (helped by having arguably the best GK in the World), however, our problems in all competitions have been the inability to score goals.
Lets not forget that scoring goals is the most important aspect of a football match. This alone has been his undoing.
Had his attackers been able to score goals at an average rate (we are below average), I think we'd be on a title run.
That because the midfield hasn't been fixed, on top of the attack not being good while the defense isn't great.
 

acnumber9

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I'm not an LVG defender, but LVG has done a good job with our midfield and defence (helped by having arguably the best GK in the World), however, our problems in all competitions have been the inability to score goals.
Lets not forget that scoring goals is the most important aspect of a football match. This alone has been his undoing.
Had his attackers been able to score goals at an average rate (we are below average), I think we'd be on a title run.
He hasn't really done a good job with our midfield. Carrick is still comfortably our best midfielder and our wide options are laughable. Schweinsteiger is on his last legs and if he's a foundation it's one that needs to be replaced already. The defence is ok when we sacrifice all attacking intent to concentrate on it.
 

championo

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He has bought players, he is grooming them. He is creating a strong back bone. Imagine this team with Pogba in the middle? It was a tragedy to let the player leave for Juve. SAF is a legend of legends but he failed the club's immediate future with his recommendation of a successor and by letting Pogba go. LVG needed to rebuild our structure. He is close. We will start firing on most cylinders very soon. I have confidence in the man, that confidence is based on track record from other clubs he has rebuilt. He loves attacking football, he has not changed. You can't get a chicken breast from an egg. The eggs have to hatch and his eggs are hatching. Time people, time. I know the frustration, I get angry too every time I see Mata's face, but LVG will set us up well.
 
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Leftback99

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What he's up to? It's pretty clear to me, in a nutshell, very briefly:

4-2-3-1 with a profile for each position, clearly identifying a player who he thinks is of the level required for each position.
He started off buying players to fit his 3-5-2, then he moved to 4-1-4-1 and others along the way. 4-2-3-1 is just his latest attempt at throwing mud at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Fill out the 4-2-3-1 with players matching the profile e.g. Stones to partner Smalling and complete the backline of De Gea / Shaw / Smalling and Darmian.
Stones isn't left footed so won't fit the philosophy. If anything he'd replace Smalling under LVG, similar to how he was going to start the season with Jones instead. De Gea will be gone in the summer. Romero was going to be the man to 'fit the profile' this season.
 

Sammyjunn

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In Smalling's pocket (as every other person)
He as bought players, he is grooming them. He is creating a strong back bone. Imagine this team with Pogba in the middle? It was a tragedy to let the player leave for Juve. SAF is a legend of legends but he failed the club's immediate future with his recommendation of a successor and by letting Pogba go. LVG needed to rebuild our structure. He is close. We will start firing on most cylinders very soon. I have confidence in the man, that confidence is based on track record from other clubs he has rebuilt. He loves attacking football, he has not changed. You can get an chicken breast from an egg. The eggs have to hatch and his eggs are hatching. Time people, time. I know the frustration, I get angry too every time I see Mata's face, but LVG will set us up well.
The decision of letting Moyes take over was a bad and fatal one, but Pogba has so little to do with the state our current team is in. There could have been bought better midfielders then he is, and he isnt even that good that he'd single handedly change and uplift the entire team.
 

acnumber9

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He as bought players, he is grooming them. He is creating a strong back bone. Imagine this team with Pogba in the middle? It was a tragedy to let the player leave for Juve. SAF is a legend of legends but he failed the club's immediate future with his recommendation of a successor and by letting Pogba go. LVG needed to rebuild our structure. He is close. We will start firing on most cylinders very soon. I have confidence in the man, that confidence is based on track record from other clubs he has rebuilt. He loves attacking football, he has not changed. You can get an chicken breast from an egg. The eggs have to hatch and his eggs are hatching. Time people, time. I know the frustration, I get angry too every time I see Mata's face, but LVG will set us up well.
But he did Van Gaal a favour by creating more than half this back bone for him.
 

BigDunc9

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It has got to be hard for anyone to defend him. I'd happily see Martinez leave because of his results in the league this season and we are 'only' 6 points behind you.
 

WyoManU

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For goodness sake, surely now, after the massively underwhelming run we've been on since actually topping the table, LVG has to be shown the door. What are we waiting for? Does the board think LVG is gonna raise his arms and part the Red Sea for us to walk through to glory. We are playing like a mid table club as one of the richest sports franchises in world sport. Our desire to do things "The United Way" is decimating us and causing the board to make poor decisions over and over.
 

Roboc7

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His tactical awareness, substitutions and game management are extremely poor. Factor in the mess he has made of the squad and there is very little defence for him.
 

forevrared

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His tactical awareness, substitutions and game management are extremely poor. Factor in the mess he has made of the squad and there is very little defence for him.
Even with all that said, there would at least be a slight bit of respect if he looked like he gave a feck. Moyes was up on the touchline, trying to make things better until the end. Van Gaal is just sat there on the bench with that stupid smug look on his face. He is an arrogant has-been who deserves to go out like this.
 

Successful

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I'm not supporting him. Legend and all - he couldn't do it at the absolute highest stage. A lifetime of work and then he ruin it by coming here. Had he stayed away he could have been mentioned in the same books as SAF. Now he's down there with the likes of TONY PULIS!!
 

Roboc7

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Even with all that said, there would at least be a slight bit of respect if he looked like he gave a feck. Moyes was up on the touchline, trying to make things better until the end. Van Gaal is just sat there on the bench with that stupid smug look on his face. He is an arrogant has-been who deserves to go out like this.
Would it make a difference if he did though, I would like to see it too but his is baically clueless. He is a coach not a tactician or a motivator if what he has worked on isn't working he has nothing else to offer. Can't wait until he is gone now just a shame we will have to wait for our season to be over for it to happen.
 

marlowe78

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After this, I am never going to be convinced by any arguments that he's as good as people have said. I grew up thinking you couldn't get places by sheer luck, but as time has passed I've learned that if you have a good line of shit, you can get the cozier places in life.
 

shaggy

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Hand was forced because of injuries. Everyone fit and it'd have been Fellaini, Schweinsteiger, Rooney etc and I doubt we'd have played anywhere near as well. Or the youngsters out there just ignored van Gaal and played with freedom and confidence.
 

Zarlak

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Truth like rain don't give a feck who it falls on.
Hand was forced because of injuries. Everyone fit and it'd have been Fellaini, Schweinsteiger, Rooney etc and I doubt we'd have played anywhere near as well. Or the youngsters out there just ignored van Gaal and played with freedom and confidence.
Or the youngsters played as they were coached and won the game? Let's not have a one sided view, eh?
 

RetroStu

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The problem i have is that its not that i'm a LVG hater, its that i think Mourinho is the man for the job and this may be the final realistic chance of us ever signing him.
Hopefully this is just delaying the inevitable because if we miss out on Mourinho, it will hurt the future of this club IMO.
 

Zarlak

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Truth like rain don't give a feck who it falls on.
Why don't the senior players play like that then?
It could be any number of reasons. If it's how they're coached then why didn't the kids play like that? The kids would play as they were coached otherwise they'd be dropped for not obeying the manager, there's more reason for them to be scared. They have no power in the dressing room to hide behind. Perhaps some members of our squad simply can't be arsed anymore.
 

Treble

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If United beat Liverpool, I may reconsider my attitude toward him. I still think he is bad for United.
 

Xivon

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Because they can't adapt their game aswell as kids.

You tell Ronaldo to start playing possession football all of a sudden wouldn't get the best out of him..
Don't be ridiculous. It worked and works (with Pep) quite well for Bayern.
 

vidic blood & sand

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The end of the season we'll see. Personally I think Mourinho to United is a done deal, but if it isn't, Van Gaal has to keep pulling rabbits out of a hat like today.