Is this one of the worst PL seasons in recent times?

[hanovercigars]

How does that midfield show there is a lack of quality?

2 of those 3 are top class midfielders in any era.

Liverpool weren't able to win the league with a midfield of Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Steven Gerrard. That was a much better midfield.

 

[danamann]

It's obvious when it comes to the Premier League:

If there is a dominating team like Man City last season or Liverpool this season, then it's because of the amazing quality of the teams --> best league in the world.
If there is a close race between a couple of teams or a complete underdog wins the league (Leicester), then it's because of how competitive the league is --> best league in the world.


For all the other leagues it goes:

If there is one or two dominating teams that regularly win the league (Barca, Madrid, PSG, Bayern), it's because of the piss poor quality of the other teams --> farmers league.
If there is a close title race (like Bundesliga this season), then it's because none of the teams are really competitive --> farmers league.

This way you can always convince yourself (as many posters on this forum have) that the Premier League is the best league and the world.

 

[TheReligion]

United spent years winning the league with only Arsenal as a decent rival - and that wasn't consistent. There was no talk about a dearth of quality then, just a celebration of how strong United were.

City's current points tally is very typical (bit better) of a second placed side after 24 games based on the previous decade. Liverpool's points tally is unprecedented after 22 games which is potentially distorting the debate.

English teams' predominance in Europe is further indication of strength in the Premier League. The difference is that there are now some very strong 'also rans' that are disrupting the traditional bigger sides - Leicester and Wolves being the obvious two, but also Sheff Utd this season.

Not really true. The rest of Europe is going through the same kind of transition as others in the top 6 in the PL. There's no super strong Barca/Real/Bayern/Juve to contend with at the moment.

It's a very odd state of affairs.

 

[Eckers99]

It's not a midfield of gifted craftsmen but what they do is to suffocate the opposition and use the ball smartly. Aesthetically there are better midfields but operationally they are incredible. See the opening 10 minutes of the second half against United on Sunday - the midfield were absolutely crushing it.

Yeah, they really bossed Fred, Pereira and Matic.

 

[giorno]

You know what i meant, I qualified it a sentence later.

It's a midfield 3 without a single top class passer of the ball, which is fairly limited in my book.

It's a good thing they have two top class passers of the ball in TAA and VVD then. Plus Firmino. Plus Salah and Mane, both more than capable of stunning moments of brilliance

I mean, sacchi's milan played with Ancelotti, Rijkaard and Colombo in central midfield. Neither was a particularly great passer

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yep, the worst EPL season, and we're having 34 points from 22 games.

I'd say the EPL this year is the strongest ever, bar Liverpool running with it it's a dog eat dog year for the resty

Strongest ever? United and Chelsea being close to Wolves and Sheffield doesn't only mean that the latter two are good year. It also means that the former two are terrible. I understand alternate views but strongest ever? No chance.

 

[Amerifan]

The league is the strongest and most interesting it has ever been. Take away Norwich and Liverpool and the remaining sides are all more or less equally competitive. The fact a newly promoted side is in contention for European football proves this. On any day anyone can beat anyone. Thanks to the money pouring in, the quality is no longer confined to a handful of clubs.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why do you think there's a huge drop off?

because it turns out you can't outmuscle other teams in the EPL. The likes of Newcastle,Burnley, Everton Watford gives us the run for our money.

They give us a run for our money because were pretty terrible. If the all round quality is insanely hight than City and Liverpool of today are better than any PL teams before. Which is don't agree with either.

 

[giorno]

Not really true. The rest of Europe is going through the same kind of transition as others in the top 6 in the PL. There's no super strong Barca/Real/Bayern/Juve to contend with at the moment.

It's a very odd state of affairs.

It's not! Who were the superstrong english sides Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich had to contend with?

Also i'd wait for the end of the season before claiming Juventus aren't superstrong(or PSG or any of Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern for that matter)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

United won the league with 76 and 79 points respectively in the late 90's with only Arsenal a serious rival until Chelsea came into money in 2004 (with spurs, man city, and liverpool nowhere to be seen. And apart from United winning the Champions League in 1999, English sides were doing nothing in Europe prior to 2005.

It does seem there is an agenda to discredit what Liverpool are doing at the moment. Ironically if Liverpool were just a couple of points ahead of City people would say how great the league is.

It's weak regardless of Liverpool. We ourselves are proof of the standard this year. I am discrediting us more than Livepool.

 

[Ban]

It's so strange, not only you have to repeat how brilliant they are, now they have top class players in every position. Even they bench is top class. God forbid saying Henderson and Wijnaldum are very good players but nothing special. Put them in any other team which isn't managed by Klopp and they would be average.

And of course saying league is poor is great insult to their absolutely brilliant team.

 

[TheReligion]

It's not! Who were the superstrong english sides Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich had to contend with?

Also i'd wait for the end of the season before claiming Juventus aren't superstrong(or PSG or any of Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern for that matter)

Well a quick one would be the last great United side coming up against Peps Barca in multiple CL finals. There was competition. At the moment I feel as though there's a huge transitional period in European football with new managers coming in everywhere and old guard players being phased out. The only two teams hitting their peak are City and Liverpool.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Leeds never pushed United as a collective group of sides - one off seasons where they would be strong but they weren't all strong at the same time looking to pip United to the title. There seems to be a suggestion that the league is weak because the 'big 6' aren't all doing well.

I do think there is a narrative being developed from certain rivals about a 'weak' league as it's a way of dismissing Liverpool's achievements - not suggesting that is the only motivation.

Liverpool are slotting some good teams but I would argue that's because they are such a complete and balanced side with few weaknesses that has been rarely seen in the PL era.

Didn’t say they all challenged at the same time but the suggestion was it was just united arsenal for years but actually it was just five basically. It’s just that it was such a great rivalry it maybe deceived people into thinking it went on longer than it did. The Pl has never had multiple title contenders season after season. Although between 2006 and 2009 the top four teams were all amongst the best in Europe. That’s unheard of.

As for the second bit, maybe it’s some people’s narrative I don’t know. I’ve twice stated I think this Liverpool team is as good as any title winners and better than a lot, even a few of our sides but I just can’t get how people cannot see the obvious decline in United Chelsea and Arsenal being a massive effect on the overall quality of the league and even Spurs and Everton.
It’s obvious , it’s factual , it’s there in plain sight.

 

[Righteous Steps]

It's so strange, not only you have to repeat how brilliant they are, now they have top class players in every position. Even they bench is top class. God forbid saying Henderson and Wijnaldum are very good players but nothing special. Put them in any other team which isn't managed by Klopp and they would be average.

And of course saying league is poor is great insult to their absolutely brilliant team.

But Wijnaldum is not average with Netherlands? In fact he is their best player most of the time, so what’s your opinion on that?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

2 top posters in this thread so far are scouse fans. Throughout the board, it's impressive how desperate they are to be seen as an all time great side and get defensive anyone suggests otherwise. Just enjoy your league title, you weirdos.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean Liverpool would have won the league this year regardless of the rest of the league anyway (barring maybe their won challengers). But their title is not disputed by the discussion on the rest. And look at the other supposedly big teams - United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs have all been poor this season and are really being saved to an extent by each others ineptitude. Then you have Liecester who were apparently title challengers despite being a fairly average team, really.

 

[Ban]

But Wijnaldum is not average with Netherlands? In fact he is their best player most of the time, so what’s your opinion on that?

My opinion is that's your opinion.

 

[PickledRed]

Not really true. The rest of Europe is going through the same kind of transition as others in the top 6 in the PL. There's no super strong Barca/Real/Bayern/Juve to contend with at the moment.

It's a very odd state of affairs.

Not that odd. We just gave a super strong top 2 in England. The same sides don’t have to be the strong sides. Over the past two years we’re seeing two very strong teams dominating domestically and doing well in Europe

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The league is the strongest and most interesting it has ever been. Take away Norwich and Liverpool and the remaining sides are all more or less equally competitive. The fact a newly promoted side is in contention for European football proves this. On any day anyone can beat anyone. Thanks to the money pouring in, the quality is no longer confined to a handful of clubs.

Everybody can beat everyone is not always the sign of quality. It just means it's competitive. Turn United and Chelswa to shit in 06-09 and the league gets more competitive. Better? Nope.

 

[PickledRed]

Yeah, they really bossed Fred, Pereira and Matic.

I do love this stuff. Honestly, if United are as happy as Ole appeared to be after Sunday then fill your boots.

 

[Ban]

2 top posters in this thread so far are scouse fans. Throughout the board, it's impressive how desperate they are to be seen as an all time great side and get defensive anyone suggests otherwise. Just enjoy your league title, you weirdos.

Top 3. Yeah so weird. This means more, remember!

 

[TheReligion]

United - New manager, clear out of players, promotion of youth, small squad.

Chelsea - New manager, transfer ban, developing squad.

Arsenal - New manager, clear out needed of players, young players coming through.

Spurs - New manager, old players need replacing,

That's just the PL but the same is mirrored around Europe. City and Liverpool are the only two clubs in the PL with some stability at the moment (top 6). It's a fact.

 

[Ban]

I do love this stuff. Honestly, if United are as happy as Ole appeared to be after Sunday then fill your boots.

Why don't you start a How incredible is this Liverpool team thread?

 

[TheReligion]

Why don't you start a How incredible is this Liverpool team thread?

He doesn't need to. The Caf freak show will do it on his behalf. Aka the covert oppos.

 

[Ban]

He doesn't need to. The Caf freak show will do it on his behalf. Aka the covert oppos.

How many of them are there you reckon?

 

[Owngoalscorer]

Certainly the most entertaining season for ages - just though unpredictability apart from Pool

 

[dwd]

It's also one of the worst because it's practically over by December. So exciting.

 

[giorno]

Well a quick one would be the last great United side coming up against Peps Barca in multiple CL finals. There was competition. At the moment I feel as though there's a huge transitional period in European football with new managers coming in everywhere and old guard players being phased out. The only two teams hitting their peak are City and Liverpool.

08/09 United were a great side. The last truly great english side before City and Liverpool. That season, the truly great european sides were Barcelona, United, Chelsea and Liverpool

10/11 side was 18/19 spurs with a luckier CL draw

If you look at the great sides in Europe, year to year, you get Barcelona and Real Madrid 10/11, those two plus Bayern and Dortmund 11/12 and 12/13, 3 of those 4 plus Atletico 13/14, same 3 plus Juventus 14/15, same 4 plus Atletico 15/16, back to barca/madrid/juventus/bayern 16/17

Last season it was Liverpool, Barcelona, City, Juventus. You might say that there's been a drop off in the last 3 seasons, but not a big one. Mostly the difference was Liverpool and City becoming the best sides in the world.

If i had to rank them i'd say Barcelona 10/11 and 14/15 and Bayern 12/13 are the only sides who were a level above Liverpool and City

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

It smacks a bit of sour grapes, though. Let's be honest here, if it was Leicester or even bloody City currently sitting 1st, I don't think many of us would be as quick as to talk about how poor the league is this season.

It's just depressing that it's our biggest rivals about to break their duck and we're shocking to boot.

 

[PickledRed]

Why don't you start a How incredible is this Liverpool team thread?

I thought that this thread was tacitly asking that very question.

 

[Ban]

I thought that this thread was tacitly asking that very question.

It wasn't. It's in your head.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why don't you start a How incredible is this Liverpool team thread?

On a Liverpool forum

 

[Eckers99]

I do love this stuff. Honestly, if United are as happy as Ole appeared to be after Sunday then fill your boots.

United fans aren't happy, we've had another poor season and are in disarray on and off the pitch. It's as bad as it's been for about 30 years. That said, a win tonight and we're within 3 points of 4th, which goes to show just how poor the league has been this season. Which is the point a lot of people are trying to make.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I thought that this thread was tacitly asking that very question.

Nope. It's what you wish to discuss though.

 

[krautrøck]

Apart from Pool I find this to be a very enjoyable season so far. Many of the lower half teams have gotten fairly strong which makes for an interesting league.

 

[Amerifan]

Everybody can beat everyone is not always the sign of quality. It just means it's competitive. Turn United and Chelswa to shit in 06-09 and the league gets more competitive. Better? Nope.

It’s a sign of equal quality within the PL. How well PL sides do in Europe shows the quality of the PL overall. So yea, this year parity in the PL is a sign of quality.

 

[DamoK]

Why do you think there's a huge drop off?

because it turns out you can't outmuscle other teams in the EPL. The likes of Newcastle,Burnley, Everton Watford gives us the run for our money.

I think that's because we are so poor not because the other teams have improved.

 

[red woppit]

Don't think it's the worst, I think that many of the current crop are more equal now than in previous seasons. Liverpool are obviously a cut above every other team, possibly apart from City, but I think that any team in the Prem could beat any other at the moment. Liverpool are so full of confidence that they believe they are going to win every game, and it shows, but someone will beat them soon.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

To me the quality of the league has been going down since about 2010. And that's just related to Champions League teams or performance across Europe. The quality of the football is just so poor at the moment. Matches between the best teams in the country are so awful in terms of general play. And even great matches are only great because of clear errors in play. Yes, there's still some interesting things happening. But on the whole, football has become far less interesting as a fan. Without bets on the matches, I would only watch United play.

 

[Kush]

It has been very poor, if you take the average point tally of 4th-6th over last decade or so. This is the lowest it has ever been, that should tell you everything.

Mid-table sides are in and around as they usually have been, it's just that gap between Top 6 to them is generally much much larger at this stage. Southampton were rooted in bottom 3 for lord knows how long and now they are up to 9th with just 3 points off Top 6.

I thought that this thread was tacitly asking that very question.

Not everything is aimed at Liverpool but this victim-complex has been a long running theme for your fans so its nothing new.

 

[harms]

The top-4 race have definitely became a comical spectacle of who would drop more points. I think that it has been a case for a while and City/Liverpool's total points tally aren't just a representation of their (genuinely outstanding) quality, but also of the poor state of the rest "top" clubs. The results in the CL kinda go against this theory, but I think they had a lot to do with lack and the fact that all of the traditionally big European clubs are currently in transition (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern). Only Juve and PSG are close to their peak, but they have underperformed in Europe recently.