Is this one of the worst PL seasons in recent times?

Inter Yer Nan

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The last couple of seasons, quality-wise as been crap IMO. There's always one or two teams that do well and the rest is just a battle of mediocrity. Liverpool have been fortunate with a relative lack of injuries, especially to the big players for a while plus some crucial referee decisions early in the season when it was still open and City, the only other team capable of competing have had dire luck in both those areas and have started to mail it in a while ago. The fact that we are 5th and are supposed to have a chance of top four despite this consistently being our worst team for over 30 years is proof enough.
 

KirkDuyt

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Either that, or the bottom half has become stronger. They do havea fecktonne of money compared to most other leagues. The amount of cash rubbish teams lime West Ham and Palace throw around is crazy to me.
 

mark clatternburg

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No,its a good season’(the best since 15/16)! Its just that teams outside the usual suspects are catching up, and the old guard dont like it.
 

Daysleeper

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In serie A it would be even easier all things being equal. 3/4 of the teams wouldn't be able to complete 2 consecutive passes against them
It’s possible but teams love to park the bus in serie a and they’d defend them the way united would. Liverpool struggles a little bit when teams are able to tightly mark their wingbacks.

They’d still win that league though, make
No mistake about it
 

Daysleeper

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Just 4 points separate 14th and 5th
Again, not a sign of how good the league is, United just had one of their worst performances of the season today. The fact that they are still 5th is not a good sign for the quality in the EPL
 

Hulksmash

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Again, not a sign of how good the league is, United just had one of their worst performances of the season today. The fact that they are still 5th is not a good sign for the quality in the EPL
It's more like small clubs catching up in high speed!
 

redshaw

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Again, not a sign of how good the league is, United just had one of their worst performances of the season today. The fact that they are still 5th is not a good sign for the quality in the EPL
Just to clarify, I'm just posting a table and have not once said this is a sign of a good league. I've said the opposite.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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The bottom teams are as strong as they've been in a long time, Norwich aren't even that bad and they're well adrift now. Villa and Sheffield United were two very good promoted sides. Watford were a mid-table team on a bad run, while Brighton and Bournemouth aren't bad teams and would be where they usually are in lower mid-table in a regular season.

I think what was happening last few years with crazy points totals from City etc wasn't normal, and what Liverpool have done isn't normal. City have reverted back to a more normal title challenge points total. Leicester are a fairly normal CL contender level. Chelsea would be Europa League pushing for CL in a normal season, nothing too unusual. They are on course for 63 points, considering they had a transfer ban and lost Eden Hazard in the summer, that's what you'd probably expect.

What is unusual is Arsenal, Spurs and United are so bad all at the same time. Those are the three that are stinking out the joint, everyone else has been boosted 2-3 points by the sheer incompetence of those three teams this year. Arsenal with 6 wins out of 24 league games is mad.
 

Ludens the Red

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Just 4 points separate 14th and 5th
@Borussin for sure, fantastic league, definitely the same as its always been. Look at those fantastic amount of wins picked up by United Arsenal and Spurs, even more impressive are those sexy goal totals. Those clubs have done so well to sneak above the likes of Palace, Everton, Burnley and Newcastle who all play fantastic entertaining football.
 

njred

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No,its a good season’(the best since 15/16)! Its just that teams outside the usual suspects are catching up, and the old guard dont like it.
This and the league is reaching heights it’s never reached before with the point totals between City last season and Liverpool this season. Add LC , Sheffield, and Wolves to the mix and you have a great season. What’s not to like? The only real disappointing teams are Spurs and Arsenal. united are a mess anyway until their board gets revamped.
 

Daysleeper

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This and the league is reaching heights it’s never reached before with the point totals between City last season and Liverpool this season. Add LC , Sheffield, and Wolves to the mix and you have a great season. What’s not to like? The only real disappointing teams are Spurs and Arsenal. united are a mess anyway until their board gets revamped.
A one horse race is never fun.
 

Jeffthered

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I do not think the PL quality is low. Looking at our clubs in Europe, english clubs compete very well which tells me our quality is good.

I believe its a combination of Liverpool stepping into a gear that is unheard of and the PL money for all teams taking into effect. Even smaller clubs have resources to buy decent players now and closes the gap to the ‘big 6’.

Look at Everton, they are able to attract an Ancelotti now. Times are changing, I believe Liverpool is more of an outlier, the middle ground is now where most teams will compete
I have been stating this for a good while now. The PL is competitive, but the quality is pretty average. Look at us, and we are still challenging for Champions League. That says it all. Do not use Europe as a barometer... because those competitions throw up some interesting trends. Atletico Madrid were runners up a number of times in the CL.. Tottenham were Runners-Up last season, and look at them!

Consider quality.... what you watch, the players, how good are they? Look at Chelsea, in fourth with a forward who is genuine, talented and honest, but still not a top-level striker. We are average, nothing else. And we are 5th. Think about that. And we have been average now for a long-time, bar a few performances. The Premiership is very average, BUT, this makes it very, very , very interesting.
 

Sleigh

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You could flip this phrase on its head and argue that it’s the best it’s ever been.

I personally think that the Liverpool side we’re currently watching, could be one of best Premier League teamwe’ve ever seen (that grated on me a little).

Then, Manchester City are just having a poor season.

Leicester City down, the quality isn’t that different. The Premier League cashflow has allowed to purchase all the best players from around the world, therefore making everyone a lot closer in quality,

Just because Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton etc are struggling more than previous years, doesn’t mean that the league is poorer. It’s more of a balancing of the levels.

I’ve watched a lot of Leicester (as you’d imagine); and the team we’d had in 15/16 to now would easily beat the teams from the Martin O’Neill era, that won two league cups.

Teams with the quality of Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth and Villa, wouldn’t have been relegated in some Premier League seasons. I think the quality of the Premier League helps our teams in Europe, as they are playing to a higher standard each week.

Outside of that, if you look at the rest of Europe, you can see other leagues are getting poorer and will need a lot of money to keep up with the Premier League teams. Do they even have the resources to do that!?

Barca will have a real problem once Messi retires. They’re having to buy players from other clubs again, as the Youth isn’t there from the academy (ala Manchester United). They no longer how that fear factor. Real Madrid are the same and whilst still a big pull, aren’t the same since Ronaldo left for Juventus. They’re ageing and it’s showing. They need a serious overhaul. The rest of the league is dross and would mostly be cannon fodder in the Premier League.

Bayern Munich are struggling. They aren’t the same as they once were.

Ajax we’re a breath of fresh air last season but they’re slowly being stripped of players so will undoubtedly struggle to maintain what they achieved last season.

Serie A is potentially more exciting with the re-emergence of Inter and Lazio as a challengers again. However Juventus dominance has been at the detriment of that league for so long. A team winning 8 leagues in a row, isn’t healthy. Juventus has an ageing defence also, so it’ll be interesting to see how they maintain that going forwards.

Then we have Scottish football ......
 

Treble

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What's the average league position of Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton? 8th? That's a shockingly poor season for most of the established clubs in England.

Chelsea are comfortably 4th and have as many points as Moyes' United after 24 games, namely 40 pts.

It's delusional to think the rest of the league have become much better. Strange season.
 
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RoyH1

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You could flip this phrase on its head and argue that it’s the best it’s ever been.

I personally think that the Liverpool side we’re currently watching, could be one of best Premier League teamwe’ve ever seen (that grated on me a little).

Then, Manchester City are just having a poor season.

Leicester City down, the quality isn’t that different. The Premier League cashflow has allowed to purchase all the best players from around the world, therefore making everyone a lot closer in quality,

Just because Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton etc are struggling more than previous years, doesn’t mean that the league is poorer. It’s more of a balancing of the levels.

I’ve watched a lot of Leicester (as you’d imagine); and the team we’d had in 15/16 to now would easily beat the teams from the Martin O’Neill era, that won two league cups.

Teams with the quality of Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth and Villa, wouldn’t have been relegated in some Premier League seasons. I think the quality of the Premier League helps our teams in Europe, as they are playing to a higher standard each week.

Outside of that, if you look at the rest of Europe, you can see other leagues are getting poorer and will need a lot of money to keep up with the Premier League teams. Do they even have the resources to do that!?

Barca will have a real problem once Messi retires. They’re having to buy players from other clubs again, as the Youth isn’t there from the academy (ala Manchester United). They no longer how that fear factor. Real Madrid are the same and whilst still a big pull, aren’t the same since Ronaldo left for Juventus. They’re ageing and it’s showing. They need a serious overhaul. The rest of the league is dross and would mostly be cannon fodder in the Premier League.

Bayern Munich are struggling. They aren’t the same as they once were.

Ajax we’re a breath of fresh air last season but they’re slowly being stripped of players so will undoubtedly struggle to maintain what they achieved last season.

Serie A is potentially more exciting with the re-emergence of Inter and Lazio as a challengers again. However Juventus dominance has been at the detriment of that league for so long. A team winning 8 leagues in a row, isn’t healthy. Juventus has an ageing defence also, so it’ll be interesting to see how they maintain that going forwards.

Then we have Scottish football ......
You make some great points, but I disagree with the bolded part. We consistently underestimate the strength of foreign leagues and specially La Liga. I don't know if it's the low operating budgets outside the big 3 or what, but this keeps on happening here in the CAF were we should know better.
Yes the PL is the strongest league top to bottom. But the likes of Sevilla, Valencia and Real Sociedad are no pushovers and would do just as well here as anywhere. They'd struggle on rainy tuesday night in Burnley (been waiting for along time to pull that card :)) but on the flipside, try playing Betis a sweltering August evening in Seville. And as weak as Barsa and RM might seem, I reckon they'd be 2 and 3 in the league.

Now I'll wait patiently for Wumminator to come and peckerslap me for having the audacity of suggesting any of this :lol:
 

Fox_Chrys

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This time last season, our current points and GD would have us 5th, so 2nd to 6th is certainly a lower standard.

I think this has been affected by Liverpool been so dominant, I expect both ourselves and Man City dropped off when the players realised they were not in a title race.
 

B20

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Table after 24 games last season.

#Team Pt.​
  1. Liverpool FC 61
  2. Manchester City 56
  3. Tottenham Hotspur 54
  4. Arsenal FC 47
  5. Chelsea FC 47
  6. Manchester United 45
  7. Wolverhampton Wanderers 35
  8. Everton FC 33
  9. Watford FC 33
  10. AFC Bournemouth 33
  11. Leicester City 32
  12. West Ham United 31
  13. Brighton & Hove Albion 26
  14. Newcastle United 24
  15. Crystal Palace 23
  16. Southampton FC 23
  17. Burnley FC 23
  18. Cardiff City 19
  19. Fulham FC 17
  20. Huddersfield Town 11
Newcastle six points better off this season, but still in 14th. 12th-7th place still in more or less the same points range. Newcastle have a point less than last season but still in 7th.

Big difference in top 6. United in 6th would sit with a comfy 5 points clear in fourth this season with their 45 points (11 points worse off now).
Spurs in third would be ahead of this seasons man City by three points.
This seasons Liverpool 3 points and two games in hand ahead of where they were last season.

Also a significant difference in the relegating zone where this seasons bottom 3 have 6, 6 & 4 points more than last seasons bottom 3. I'd also say Bournemouth, Watford and Norwich are miles better than Cardiff, Fulham and Huddersfield.
 

elánius

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Not the worst PL season, but worst battle for TOP4 for sure. In regular season teams like Sheffield or Wolves wouldnt even think about Champions League and they would be glad that they dont need to play in relegation battle, they would need like 20 more points to even think about TOP4. But because this year theres nothing like BIG6 and only ManCity and Liverpool left from those BIG teams, they have a chance and not that small.
 

B20

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If wolves or Sheffield can string together 4-5 wins they are in with a great shot of 4th.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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What's the average league position of Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton? 8th? That's a shockingly poor season for most of the established clubs in England.

Chelsea are comfortably 4th and have as many points as Moyes' United after 24 games, namely 40 pts.

It's delusional to think the rest of the league have become much better. Strange season.
The only team to improve this season are Leicester. Every other team has either regressed or stagnated. The amount of top half teams we have in regression is unprecedented. The poorest Utd & Arsenal sides in PL history. Spurs at their worst for 5 years. Then you have chasers like Everton & West Ham nowhere to be seen. It's not unfathomable that 3 teams from the big 6 could finish outside the top 6. Best league in the world, my arse.
 

B20

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The only team to improve this season are Leicester. Every other team has either regressed or stagnated. The amount of top half teams we have in regression is unprecedented. The poorest Utd & Arsenal sides in PL history. Spurs at their worst for 5 years. Then you have chasers like Everton & West Ham nowhere to be seen. It's not unfathomable that 3 teams from the big 6 could finish outside the top 6. Best league in the world, my arse.
Everton are where they normally are. And West ham have always liked to flop big every now and then. I don't really know why you count them as a reflection of anything.

Southampton and Sheffield fans i am sure are enjoying this season a whole lot more than last season.

I'd also say we've improved this season.
 

brontus

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I don't understand the 'league is weak this year' mantra going around; simply because, some of the so called 'big 6' are not performing to expectations.

Surely, a league were all the 'top 6' teams had 55 plus points after 24 games, while all the 'bottom 6' teams had single digit points would be weaker than a league where the bottom teams had multiple points and the top teams had fewer points?

The actual reality is that the league is more competitive now than it has ever been; the so called 'bottom teams' can now afford top players, and if a 'top team' has a bad 30 mins spell during a game, they would either lose or fail to pick up maximum points.That is the reality of the league.

The only reason why people think differently is that Liverpool currently are a freak of a team, performing at an outrageous rate. So it is only fair for people to conclude, if they -Liverpool- have that many points, then surely, the other big teams should have similar points. If the other top teams do not, then the only plausible explanation is that the other top teams have largely being inconsistent or not good enough; rather than thinking, the league as a whole is now more competitive than ever before and Liverpool are simply a freak of an outlier.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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Everton are where they normally are. And West ham have always liked to flop big every now and then. I don't really know why you count them as a reflection of anything.
Southampton and Sheffield fans i am sure are enjoying this season a whole lot more than last season.
I'd also say we've improved this season.
Everton & West Ham have both spent big & were touted as challengers to the top 6. I'm sure Southampton & Sheffield Utd fans are happy at how their teams are doing so far. They are not playing great football though. They are as high as they are due to the general crap standard of the league. I wouldn't say Liverpool have hugely improved from last season. The poor standard of everybody around them is allowing them an uncontested run.
 

FootballHQ

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Yes.

I've said many times before though I'd rather some of the top teams are weaker so the league feels closer and there's more "shock" results every weekend than last two seasons when the top 5-6 were miles clear by December (and then Man. United won 10 straight).

Makes the relegation battle more exciting as means the teams at the bottom teams will pick up more points aswell.