Is this the way forward?

drunkmonkmeth

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This is the last post im allowed for the day but I'll waste it gladly in saying.

There is no way forward under ole unless youre content with competing for top 4 and succeeding sometimes.
 
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Red00012

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This is the last post im allowed for the day but I'll waste it gladly in saying.

There is no way forward under ole unless youre content with completing for top 4 and succeeding sometimes but failing as often.
Quite the tongue twister
 

HD7

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I was thinking since we didnt buy Sancho and dont have enough good wingers, that the diamond formation like the one Anceloti uses in Everton is a good way to utilise our abundance of midfielders.
And we can always play the 3-5-2 like last season versus the big opponents. Telles instead of Williams as a wing back and Shaw as a left central defender.

Also I like the idea of a 4-2-2-2 and I think we can try it versus PSG. Fred and Mctom to guard, Pogba and Bruno to create. Rashford and Cavani upfront.
What do you think, guys?
 

bondsname

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For some games we'll go with one lineup and other games we'll switch it up. It all depends on the opposition.
 

Bebestation

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What this performance showed me is that the diamond is definitely a viable option with this squad. Shaw and AWB will never be clinical forwards, but they don't have to be. They cover so much ground down each flank, and we have a lot of technical midfielders that can have a lot of fun playing in that system.1
This is what I saw too. We have a decent level of creativity in the team and we need to try fix it all together so we can break teams who gives us the freedom to play.

Bruno's assist today came from an LCM position & I'm not seeing the need to play him all the time as an AM because his creativity can come from a little deeper anyway. Even as a CAM the lad is always dropping back to CM positions to help the defending, so him starting there does nothing but make him focus on getting forward more instead.

Mctomminay was doing the defensive work well like dropping in to CB when needed whilst players like Bruno Mata and VDB would drop in to midfield whenever it was needed aswell both attacking & defensive wise.
All that cohesion allowed Pogba much more freedom today rather than being stuck in a double pivot and I personally thought him and Bruno looked like they played some nice passes between each other and helped build the tempo of our game which Newcastle could not handle.

It really made me want to see Pogba and Bruno in a midfield partnership rather than seeing one players so high up on the pitch as an isolated AM and the other one as a static deep lying midfielder in a double pivot.
 

bond19821982

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Agree.

Pogba as LAM, Mata as RAM with Bruno in the middle has lot of potential. It may lack pace but we probably don't need them when we play the likes of Newcastle or Palace.

With Telles coming in, we just need an upgrade on right back (Williams) who can keep the width.
 

Isotope

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For some games we'll go with one lineup and other games we'll switch it up. It all depends on the opposition.
Best teams usually have a fixed lineup, unless there's fatigue, injuries, or more important games ahead.
 

sammsky1

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Is that not how we've always lined up..? Martial is a pacey striker, we play three attackers behind and Pogba a bit deeper...
The idea implies we pack the team with creative midfielder and not 2 inverted forwards. In certain games I think it’s a very interesting proposal and also finds a way to get mata into the team without exposing his failing legs.

Could be genius. Especially as the single CF will have to run themselves into the ground and won’t last beyond 65 mins, allowing us to bring on an equally striker as sub.

I’d love to see if this works against a team like Leipzig City or Liverpool. @Adnan what do you think?
 

Marcus

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Yes, I agree. Football is about balance. You can be more attacking even when you play with fewer strikers.
 

Isotope

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The idea implies we pack the team with creative midfielder and not 2 inverted forwards. In certain games I think it’s a very interesting proposal and also finds a way to get mata into the team without exposing his failing legs.

Could be genius. Especially as the single CF will have to run themselves into the ground and won’t last beyond 65 mins, allowing us to bring on an equally striker as sub.

I’d love to see if this works against a team like Leipzig City or Liverpool. @Adnan what do you think?
This man gets it. We have so many very good to world class attacking midfielders. That may include Pogba also. Why not just play by cramming and suffocating that center midfield with creative players who ALL can be good goalscorers also.

Imho, we should have this line up against "smaller", low block, or defensive teams, which is maybe ~75% of the League.
 

Red_Orchestra

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After watching todays game, I greatly miss Mata on the right, I absolutely love Mata's role in this squad. Goes wide, goes centrally, drops deep and picks up play. I'm sorry but we need a younger version of Mata, perhaps Buendia can play the Mata role?
 

sammsky1

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This man gets it. We have so many very good to world class attacking midfielders. That may include Pogba also. Why not just play by cramming and suffocating that center midfield with creative players who ALL can be good goalscorers also.

Imho, we should have this line up against "smaller", low block, or defensive teams, which is maybe ~75% of the League.
If Telles lives up to his billing and can provide genuine pace and width, this could deadly! Great concept.am excited
 

Isotope

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If Telles lives up to his billing and can provide genuine pace and width, this could deadly! Great concept.am excited
True. If we can get even one genuine attacking FB, it's even better.

Although i think Shaw had a good game going forward against Newcastle, but he barely provide anything from wide position.
 

SadlerMUFC

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For me, Mata doesn't see the pitch against any of the top teams. He is a fantastic player when we are in control of a game and looking to break down a team that is sitting back, but against a top team he can be a liability. So no, this isn't the way forward, it's just another way that we can play. And it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Mata was our player of the month for September. How quickly we forget...
 

Gasolin

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There are some thoughts but Rashford will have to go left again. Martial is a very strong 9 who will protect us and can combine and score.

Imagining he is our #9, we need players who can communicate with him technically. And a lot of our technical players a la Bruno and Rashford are technical but in a very unpredictable way, meaning that the ball doesn't stick, they try dangerous things, they take risk... they are needed, they make the team completely unpredictable, but they can lose possession during offensive phases.

So we need players who can basically ensure we don't lose the ball during the offensive transitions, since Ole wants us to play in pockets to move the ball quickly. And this is where we need a player like Mata. Now Mata is technically gifted but he's getting older. If we had Sancho, that would have been our long term answer. We do not, and frankly speaking, I don't think we will get him now. Because if we need to mold another Mata, we have a couple of ball magnet players who are going to stabilize our attack the way he does coming up very soon: the Pellistri dude, Amad Diallo, and even Mejbri... those guys can all learn from Mata what we need from them. And then we will have it.

I think this is shown by the first disallowed goal scored by Bruno. Mata was offside but look what he does. He's basically fixating the whole opposition before giving a composed pass to Bruno that opens up the goal. That's his role, that's what we need him for. We have a lot of crazy technicians but we need people like Mata who can calm down the pass, and make everything else tick.

Now in the case of that specific goal, Martial could have been there. But we still need a Mata to help him, because one person is not enough.
 

Gasolin

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This man gets it. We have so many very good to world class attacking midfielders. That may include Pogba also. Why not just play by cramming and suffocating that center midfield with creative players who ALL can be good goalscorers also.

Imho, we should have this line up against "smaller", low block, or defensive teams, which is maybe ~75% of the League.
That I can agree. We have some food for thoughts here.
Basically, one question we could ask Ole would be... how about, we pack the midfield with WC midfielders to progress the ball, knowing that players like VdB or even Pogba will naturally be interested in being in the box?

Another thing is the balance mentioned here. I think I would be tempted to say that Ole has played two kind of teams yesterday, one with Scott and Fred covering the defense, and the other with Pogba for Fred to become more offensive. Often, recently, we have tried the Pogba option against big teams, and the Fred option against smaller teams.
What if we reverse it sometimes?

We offer Fred and Scott and give up a bit the possession against big teams, but we would still have maybe a collection of players to choose between Bruno, VdB, Mata, Pogba.
And Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani... only we can fit everyone together but why not? And against the smaller teams, as you said, we pack everyone. Even accept to play with only one striker if he's hardworking.
 

Web of Bissaka

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One pacey striker up front to stretch up opponent defence and midfield, and 3 AM (plus Pogba as CM) behind him.
There's just so much creativity, without sacrificing workrate and goalscoring there. And it suits United more, as we don't have any good winger.

Sorry what?
Excessive creativity plus sacrificing (a)workrate and (b)pace/speed while (c)worsening our already fragile defense with only one player there doing supporting defense.

It's imbalance.
It's useful if we're already stable against a rubbish teams barely threatening our defense, and especially useful if we're facing low blocks total defensive teams. When we need to score more, bring em all in as impact subs. Tactical changes.

Having 2-3 creators + 2-3 pacy demons + 2-3 workhorse if we want to have best balance, quality dependent.
Pogba at the base is always a risk, better if he's at the wing.
 

Isotope

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That I can agree. We have some food for thoughts here.
Basically, one question we could ask Ole would be... how about, we pack the midfield with WC midfielders to progress the ball, knowing that players like VdB or even Pogba will naturally be interested in being in the box?

Another thing is the balance mentioned here. I think I would be tempted to say that Ole has played two kind of teams yesterday, one with Scott and Fred covering the defense, and the other with Pogba for Fred to become more offensive. Often, recently, we have tried the Pogba option against big teams, and the Fred option against smaller teams.
What if we reverse it sometimes?

We offer Fred and Scott and give up a bit the possession against big teams, but we would still have maybe a collection of players to choose between Bruno, VdB, Mata, Pogba.
And Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani... only we can fit everyone together but why not? And against the smaller teams, as you said, we pack everyone. Even accept to play with only one striker if he's hardworking.
Agreed, man. I just want to see if this can work. On paper, this could work. Newcastle gave a glimpse about what this formation and players could do.

It may not work, but why not trying it? It suits all best players we have, except Rashford and Martial have to rotate. And this allows young Greenwood a room to breathe, without the burden of as a starter.
 

r0663664

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I like VDB, Mata and Bruno, clever footballers who plays one touch football. They pass the move without the ball. No more Pogba, if Real wants him please come and get him in January. Pogba just slow down the whole attack.
 

Lentwood

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I said it after the Spurs game and yesterday proved me correct - you don't need nine players flying forward to dominate possession and win football matches. Starting the game with a medium block, full backs in traditional positions and two proper CMs made a massive difference.

We have a VASTLY improved forward line compared to when we struggled to break down bottom half teams last season. In those darks days, the attacking players were predominantly Pereira, Lingard, Mata and James (bear in mind Martial missed most of the worst games through injury and then Rashford had the stress fracture in his back)
 

dogwithabone

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I like VDB, Mata and Bruno, clever footballers who plays one touch football. They pass the move without the ball. No more Pogba, if Real wants him please come and get him in January. Pogba just slow down the whole attack.
Donny is one of those players who is one step ahead but in a positive way. It’s easy to lay off a first time ball backwards but he can open up his foot and keep the momentum going. A really good footballer who, in time, could become world class here.
 

Red_toad

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Nice to see all the formation experts in 1 thread, then we’ll hit a team who just sit back and hold a rigid 4411 and we’ve no width and can get through the centre.
Team needs to be adaptable, we purchased 2 young right wingers and an attacking left back for a reason. Let’s see how Ole manages them and the formations before anyone decides this is how we should line up every match.
For the toon match having McTommy n Fred really allowed our attacking players a lot of freedom, but it’s not going to work for every match. Plus they had a go and have poor defenders, which really helps.
 

wolvored

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We won in a similar vein to a couple of seasons ago under Mourinho.
Lets put it into perspective. 3 goals were after 85 mins. Newcastle were a very poor easy side to play against. We had 28 shots to get those 4 goals. Mata had all the time in the world to get forward. This wont happen in most of the games we play. We need VDB to start. His vision and Brunos are the way to open up better teams than Newcastle. We should have been in for Partey, or similar instead of chasing the lost cause all summer. 4-1-4-1,4-1-2-3 with VDB and Bruno as the 2 AM, could have rotated with Pogba while hes here. McTom could grow into a decent DM as he plays CB in an improving Scotland side. This should improve his positioning and awareness.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Seeing a lot of teams without Martial like he wasn’t one of our best players this year. He probably might have scored if he was playing today, it’s not like Newcastle are world beaters. Same goes to Mata, played well but after 6 years at the club are people really thinking he’s the answer week in/week out? Should play both Martial and Rashford whenever they are fit.
 

Borys

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One pacey striker up front to stretch up opponent defence and midfield, and 3 AM (plus Pogba as CM) behind him.
There's just so much creativity, without sacrificing workrate and goalscoring there. And it suits United more, as we don't have any good winger.

Bruno - can't defend
Mata - can't defend and run
Pogba - can't defend, is not a midfielder, and guarantees 2-3 balls lost in dangerous area per game
VdB - yet to see what he can do when we're not in posession, looks like a second striker/attacking midfielder so far

We can give it a try, but we need to find a cheat code for 100% of ball posession.

Because otherwise, we will score 5 goals every game but lose 8.

We need to think more about what happens when we're chasing ball, because this is the fundation of every good team.
 

Untd55

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I don't think this formation will work at all. How many times has Mata been rendered completely useless in other games due to his lack of pace on the wing?

People have to remember that Newcastle was atrocious. They didn't press; they didn't really attack or defend; they didn't really do anything.

They won't get the time on the ball that they did in yesterday's game, and it would remove almost all pace from the team.

It will also expose the defence, particularly against teams that have fast attackers. If we played this against Chelsea, I think we would get massacred because of the pace in their attack.
 

Rolaholic

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Because we won one game a certain way then it'll clearly work for all the other games.
Seriously :lol: , the reactionary takes after every match never get old

As if what worked against a bottom table side will surely work against the likes of PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig, Arsenal and Everton who we all play over the next few weeks.

We need to approach each of those teams individually and work to our strengths instead of making any definitive decision tactically based off one match. Thankfully I'm pretty certain Ole will opt for the former approach and we won't freeze out Greenwood, Martial, VDB, Pogba and Matic against quality opposition just because when we don't have to as some seem to shortsightedly be arguing for.