Is Trump planning a coup d'etat?

GlastonSpur

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I've copied the post below (with new additions) across from elsewhere, because I'm thinking that the possibility that Trump is plotting a coup deserves its own thread.

It's easy to scoff at the notion that he might be planning a coup, but we've seen many times before that Trump is crazy, breaks all norms and conventions, and cares not all about democracy. For him, staying power and not being seen to lose is everything.

Consider this article in The Guardian - ‘It must be made to fail’: Trump's desperate bid to cling to power - of which this is an extract:

"[The] continued leaks about the Trump team’s long-shot strategies for overturning the election result, and references such as one by the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, on Tuesday to a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration”, fed a sense of alarm that America was witnessing more than just hardball politics, cynical fundraising or Trumpian sour grapes.

'What Donald Trump is attempting to do has a name: coup d’état,' said Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University specializing in authoritarianism, on Twitter. 'Poorly organized though it might seem, it is not bound to fail. It must be made to fail.

'Coups are defeated quickly or not at all. While they take place we are meant to look away, as many of us are doing. When they are complete we are powerless.'

... Simultaneous to the Trump campaign’s move against election results in six key states, Trump was installing loyalists in the defense department and in other key security-related government posts. That was activity that might have prompted a warning from the United States about an authoritarian takeover if it happened in Turkey or the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Trump fired the defense secretary, Mark Esper, by tweet on Monday and appointed as chief of staff Kashyap Patel, a key Republican operative during the Russia investigation. Trump also replaced the heads of intelligence and policy inside the Pentagon with political apparatchiks, while a fourth Republican political operative, Michael Ellis, was installed as general counsel of the national security agency. A further move by Trump to fire the FBI director was also reportedly under consideration.

'That is dangerous,' said Corey Brettschneider, a professor at Brown University specializing in constitutional law and politics, of the 11th-hour personnel changes. 'We have other checks, and I don’t believe that the military would go along with a coup, but we need to have people at the top of those departments willing to say what democracy demands.' ..."


He has now additionally moved to fire a senior US cybersecurity official, Bryan Ware, in charge of stamping out election misinformation. And he is only one of a number of officials who have left national security roles in the wake of Mr Trump’s election loss to Joe Biden

Look at all these firings (and replacement with Trump ultra-loyalists) - in positions to do with defence, intelligence and security. Look at the rally he's encouraging this weekend in Washington DC - to be attended by numerous armed militia. Look at how the DoJ under Barr is aggressively onside with all the alleged electoral 'fraud' investigations. Look at how he's blocking Biden from getting intelligence briefings. Look at how House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has said, about Biden, that he doesn't know if "he'll be President January 20". Look at Pompeo's "jokey" remarks about a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration”. Look at Trump's instruction to the Proud Boys to "stand by".

Trump must know that his legal actions will fail - so why is he pursuing them? Trump must know that firing officials at this stage in pointless - so why is he is doing it? Some will answer that it's all just because he's stupid and vindictive. But maybe there's another, more sinister explanation, one unfolding as most observers are all looking in the other direction at election counts and court cases.

Trump has been setting up this narrative of massive fraud (if he lost) for months and months. Has he been priming the scene for a possible declaration of national emergency based on this premise of a stolen election? I wouldn't at all rule it out. And who in the GoP would have the spine to resist? Hardly any would be my bet. They'd rationalise it all away.
 
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Cheimoon

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There was an article on the same topic in my Dutch newspaper today (Volkskrant). I still have no idea what to make of it. Is it all bluster, like Trump usually creates lawsuits from a losing position just to be able to settle? But there are no settlements in elections, so where will the bluster go after the GOP has lost its lawsuits?

Also, Trump isn't really the type for long-term planning, so I'm not sure they are really heading anywhere specific with all this. But with every little thing they do, they further box themselves into a corner from which they will either have to leave with their heads hanging even deeper - or come out swinging. That wouldn't be without support either. If I read interviews with random(?) Americans now, it seems like a LOT of people have swallowed the GOP lies about the elections whole, so millions of people might agree with some sort of illegal action that would allow Trump's presidency to continue. Just righting a wrong, they'll say. Defend democracy through a putsch - nice one for doublespeak.

As I said, I have no idea where this might actually go, but it does seem worrying.
 

mariachi-19

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted and failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
 
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The Firestarter

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If he wants to do it he has to call his buddy Vladdy first who needs to provide step by step instruction , best by video guide . He can't plan a coup de grace for a goldfish.
 

Green_Red

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted with the failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
I think given the number of votes he got, even though he lost, he is the next republican candidate. He will be younger than Biden is now at the next term. Not sure I buy a coup though, let's see.
 

neverdie

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted with the failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
This is correct. Though at least there were some partial truths to the Russian interference. The idea of a stolen election is a complete fiction.
 

Simbo

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In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted with the failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
Hardly...

This is correct. Though at least there were some partial truths to the Russian interference. The idea of a stolen election is a complete fiction.
Think it was a bit more than partial truth, Mueller report only failed because Mueller was eventually advised by the DOJ that a sitting president IS above the law. It still resulted in 34 indictments, 7 guilty please, 5 people serving jail time and numerous counts of obstruction of justice against Trump himself which were left open and are sat waiting for him when he no longer has the protection of the presidency. On top of that the republican led congress investigation concluded that there was Russian interference (hyper-normalisation anybody?).

On the "other-side" with these current accusations, there is... nothing, nada, diddley squat, absolutely feck all to go on.
 

Raoul

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted with the failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
This is pretty much it. Its all just a theatrical exercise to save face so he doesn't look like a loser.
 

Wibble

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Trump would love to be able to stay in power by any means including a coup or semi-coup using the courts but it just isn't going to happen. Doesn't mean he can't make things very difficult until he is out of office thought.
 
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Arruda

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Let's also not forget that thing about Trump's campaign asking for contributions to his followers to pay the campaign debts.
 

Fergies Gum

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Its pretty funny how some people think Trump is smart enough to pull off anything resembling a coup d'etat. The guy is one of the most incompetent "leaders" in modern history.
 

Tarrou

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I don't see any legitimate reason to believe he's planning that

this election fraud narrative had a deliberate function in that it could help him in the courts if it was close

he's taken a massive shit on American democracy though, that's for sure
 

simonhch

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American democracy is irrevocably tarnished after this. Therent won’t be a coup now, but it’s laid the groundwork for one in the future. The electoral system needs an overhaul, that’s for sure. It’s far from bullet proof.
 

Cait Sith

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What a weak country the USA is. He's literally crying for almost 2 weeks how voting should have been stopped the moment he was leading and no one puts him in his place to end this stupidity.
 

GDaly95

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted and failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
I would change this to 'He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that he can energise his own bid for re-election in four years'

As I don't think he gives a flying feck about the GOP and unfortunately will want to go again and could be successful
 

Redplane

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What a weak country the USA is. He's literally crying for almost 2 weeks how voting should have been stopped the moment he was leading and no one puts him in his place to end this stupidity.
And it boggles the mind that a party of supposed America the greatest patriots doesn't see that just about everything the turd has done these past four years and especially what he s doing now- have made this country anything but the shining beacon of democracy and rule of law we like to tell ourselves that we are.
 

The Boy

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Washington Post is reporting that when they asked a senior administration official what Trumps plan was, the response was chuckling and "You're giving everybody way too much credit right now"

At the end of the day, this is just like Battlestar Galactica, there is no plan regardless of what any Trump supporter/enabler might say.

This is just a child who has had his favourite toy taken away and is lashing out to get it back. No thought, no strategy, no plan.
 

Sky1981

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Washington Post is reporting that when they asked a senior administration official what Trumps plan was, the response was chuckling and "You're giving everybody way too much credit right now"

At the end of the day, this is just like Battlestar Galactica, there is no plan regardless of what any Trump supporter/enabler might say.

This is just a child who has had his favourite toy taken away and is lashing out to get it back. No thought, no strategy, no plan.
Trump might be an idiot, but I have a sense someone behind him is planning something, probably not as brazen as a coup'detat but a few dodgy arms deal and long term project could be on the horizon.

I read that they're rushing a 5 bn arms deal to Saudi including the state of the art f35?
 

The Boy

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I read that they're rushing a 5 bn arms deal to Saudi including the state of the art f35?
It's been on the cards for a while, I think you mean the selling of F35s to the UAE, which is being rushed through right now and will change the balance of power to a certain extent in that area. It's a reward basically for the UAEs help in normalising relations with Israel, basically a big bribe.

Congress might not be able to stop it now, but those deals take years to fulfil and it can be turned around by the next administration.
 
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RoadTrip

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It was always clear Trump was going to cry “fraud” when he lost. It was always clear that he was never going to accept defeat. It was a plan (probably not his but someone on his staff) all along. Realised Democrats would vote by mail. Therefore created (or at least amplified) the scenario for his supporters that mail-in voting was bad and hence vote in person. At the same time began discrediting the legitimacy of mail in votes pre election. All to sow the seed of claiming fraud because of it after if he lost.

The thing that really strikes me though is that this really should have just been one mad man crying fowl. Yet somehow, the majority of the Republican Party have all lost their shit and have bought into it. I can’t figure it out if it’s just a show to avoid being targeted by Trump until he has gone, or if they are really playing game here with this, but it’s hugely concerning.
 

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Washington Post is reporting that when they asked a senior administration official what Trumps plan was, the response was chuckling and "You're giving everybody way too much credit right now"

At the end of the day, this is just like Battlestar Galactica, there is no plan regardless of what any Trump supporter/enabler might say.

This is just a child who has had his favourite toy taken away and is lashing out to get it back. No thought, no strategy, no plan.
It totally agree with all that, and most of the above - although I'd say that the opinions that Trump doesn't think ahead and is planning for the 2024 elections are mutually exclusive. I anyway don't think he'll run in 2024. From what I've read, he does not enjoy the presidency all that much: too much work, too much scrutiny. I think the theory that he'll set up a tv station (or just take over OANN?) is much more likely: then he can just snipe from the sidelines without any accountability ever. It's the perfect way to always be right without even having to get off your chair; sounds like Trump's dream job. I would also totally believe that part of this continuous rant is a con job to get people to keep donating money and pay off those campaign debts. But my worry would be that too many people take all the ranting and lying seriously, and that they unwittingly (probably not consciously) get themselves into a position where things can go wrong in this kind of way. Not the likeliest scenario though, I agree.
 

11101

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Best to think of Trump's actions as you would a child. Take a child's toys away and what do they do? Scream and shout for a bit before sulking and trying to be as difficult as they possibly can, at least until they want something again.

Hes a spoiled rich man child who has never had anybody say no to him before. Hes not planning a coup. This is just the bit that comes after banging his fists on the floor in the Tesco cereal aisle.
 

Tarrou

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one thing for certain is Trump will monetise his following post presidency
 

VP89

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Isn't this why the The Second Amendment exists? So they can fight the Government if needed?
 

Kaos

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Isn't this why the The Second Amendment exists? So they can fight the Government if needed?
The average MAGA moron doesn't really understand how the constitution works. They probably think Trump is some modern John Adams fighting the shadowy deep state Lib ***** with Jesus by his side.
 

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No, he's just bad at admitting defeat, due to his mental illness.

Instead of sending him to a psychiatrist he's elected president. Funny, that.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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No.

He's trying to create the narrative that he didn't lose the election through legitimate means so he can run that narrative to his base so that they can energise the next republian candidate in four years.

In the same guise, the Democrats did the same thing regarding the legitiamcy of Russian interfearance at the last election but that faulted and failed with the half arsed finidings in the Muller Report.
/thread

Ofcourse this has the potential to escalate to violence on the streets if his supporters think he has been wronged.
 

GailSpaceWynand

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Best to think of Trump's actions as you would a child. Take a child's toys away and what do they do? Scream and shout for a bit before sulking and trying to be as difficult as they possibly can, at least until they want something again.

Hes a spoiled rich man child who has never had anybody say no to him before. Hes not planning a coup. This is just the bit that comes after banging his fists on the floor in the Tesco cereal aisle.
A child with the ability to incite million other equally idiotic and prone-to-violence children.. Its scary to think about.
 

NinjaFletch

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I think as ever with Trump there's several actions which he's taking simultaneously which don't really make much sense as a collective whole.

So, at a basic level I think it's hard to answer the question with anything other than a 'yes'. He's very clearly ignored the result of a democratic election and has repeatedly signalled that, in spite of this vote, he will continue at the White House into a second term if allowed to. Given unfettered and unrestricted power Trump has made it abundantly clear that he will not be relinquishing power and will not aid a transition to Biden, in that alone he's unique amongst Presidents in my life time, and by almost any standard could be classified as 'planning a coup'.

Whether that is because he is 'a child' or 'a spoiled rich man' is almost immaterial to the point, that's the why to the answer, not the answer itself, and Trumps wish to subvert democracy should still be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

Then we move into questions of the realistic practicalities of it all, and whether Trump has the stomach, wherewithal, and nous, to actually do what he would need to do, or whether it's an aspiration which he will never seriously realise. In that respect, I think he'll probably content himself with whinging; I don't see a man with any great appetite for actually being President, but rather the adulation, attention, and status that comes with the role. As we move into the post-Trump world I suspect that he'll find he enjoys the status of having been President just as much, as he continues to exist on Golf courses, eat fast food and be called Mr President by his secret service detail and everyone he meets.
 

The Firestarter

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A child with the ability to incite million other equally idiotic and prone-to-violence children.. Its scary to think about.
He also has the ability to single handedly destroy the world. People often forget this intentionally , because it is an actually insane situation.
 

Fridge chutney

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My hope is he's desperately trying to stave off transfer of power because he knows that when he leaves the office, debt and jail await.
 

Simbo

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Its pretty funny how some people think Trump is smart enough to pull off anything resembling a coup d'etat. The guy is one of the most incompetent "leaders" in modern history.
Yeh but the question is if he is his own master? I really doubt it, he didn't make himself president and if there is a possibility of some sort of coup, he certainly won't be the artitect of it. He's only ever been a mouthpiece.

I lean towards the idea that this is just the final smokescreen while he sorts out some parting gifts in the time he has remaining, organise some favours for those that may have the power to protect him, etc. A £300mil debt could easily be paid off with a few well worded tweets I'm sure, a bit of scorched earth here and there maybe.
 

Scarlett Dracarys

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He also has the ability to single handedly destroy the world. People often forget this intentionally , because it is an actually insane situation.
And let's not forget his loyal followers who were told to "stand by". It depends on how desperate he gets and hopefully the GOP can put an end to all this before they lose more credibility. I can just imagine the amount of damage control future GOP candidates already have on their plates because of him.
 

Adisa

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This isn't some master plan or strategy. Just read what everything that has been written about him. The thing he fears most in life is being regarded as a loser.
This entire exercise is about not being referred t as a loser.
 

vodrake

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This isn't the first time he's cried about fraud or claimed everything's rigged against him when he's lost or though he was about to lose. He's just a narcissist who can't handle being publicly embarrassed and this is his way of dealing with it. I doubt he has a sinister plan to destroy democracy, he's just having a massive tantrum and doesn't particularly care what the consequences are as long as it means he can claim he's still a winner. I'm not even sure he particularly wants to be president, he just doesn't want to be a loser (and maybe avoid the pile of lawsuits awaiting when he does leave office).

We might still end up with a coup, though I don't think it likely, but it would be from stubbornness and a continued comedy of errors rather than design.