Israel - Palestine Discussion

Mogget

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So what you're implying is that Israeli's (who you know full well have unfettered internet access) are incapable of empathy. There are plenty of human rights groups in Israel, a vocal left-wing and Arab parties in the Knesset.

What utterly fascinates me is how unconvinced you are by the very people you purport to care about.

Again..

Seems to me the Israeli's who do show empathy aren't treated very well.




Completely normal behaviour.
 

The Corinthian

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Let me know if you ever get those names.
The War on Redcafe is the most recent starting last Tuesday no end date yet in sight sadly. Like the other wars he’ll mention, Israel were attacked (with words) by all and sundry totally unprovoked.
 

oates

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Let me know if you ever get those names.
There are already a number of outstanding posts waiting for @Fearless to come back with actual proof of his assertions.

Is it becos you is a Mod that you expect a different outcome for your request or are you just mad like the rest of us?
 

Carolina Red

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There are already a number of outstanding posts waiting for @Fearless to come back with actual proof of his assertions.

Is it becos you is a Mod that you expect a different outcome for your request or are you just mad like the rest of us?
No, I’m fully expecting to be disappointed here. I’ve got a post or two myself still waiting for a reply.
 

calodo2003

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There are already a number of outstanding posts waiting for @Fearless to come back with actual proof of his assertions.

Is it becos you is a Mod that you expect a different outcome for your request or are you just mad like the rest of us?
It’s mostly bemusement for some.
 

lefty_jakobz

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No, I’m fully expecting to be disappointed here. I’ve got a post or two myself still waiting for a reply.
I think ive figured out the issue...he only gets paid for X amount of posts and ge must be at the quota for the day.
 

oates

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No, I’m fully expecting to be disappointed here. I’ve got a post or two myself still waiting for a reply.
You're just as powerless as the rest of us poor schmucks aren't you?
 

oates

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Petition to change @Fearless 's name to @So full of bullshit he's become constipated.
 

shamans

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I think that's a bit of a stretch. They existed in a better state than Jews did in Christian Europe but did not live anything akin to what we would consider to be equal rights today and I doubt they 'happily' existed. I'm sure you wouldn't want to wear clothes now which marked you out as a Muslim for example or have to pay an extra tax compared to your next door neighbour Bill.

Circumstances have obviously also greatly changed in terms of power in the Middle East and how Arabs and Muslims see themselves compared to the rest of the world.

Do I think the Arabs would actually exterminate the Jews if they had the upper hand? For various reasons, I don't, though you never know the depths of the human mind. It isn't exactly a stretch to imagine why Israeli Jews may be concerned about this though, considering some of the rhetoric which has been used in the past to frame the conflict in the Middle East itself.

@2cents has spoken of the importance of getting both sides to understand andf empathise with each other, if a solution is ever to be found. I can't see how a Palestinian would ever be able to understand the processes that led up to the Nakba, even with the horrible events that preceded it. They can try to understand the feelings before and after though, as well as vica versa.

You can't compare an era 300 years ago to today. It was a totally different time. BTW, I am not sure till how long the "different clothes" practice lasted either but we are talking about a time when the enlightened western countries would slaughter every other citizen of the land they now owned/conquered. Compared to that Jews had a much better status and for the time it was much better than the norm. To me that makes it seem quite obvious if tables were turned, palestinians would not eliminate every jewish person.

As for the "feelings before", the growing anti Jewish sentiment (even before holocaust) was primarily in Europe, not Middle East.
 

shamans

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No, I'm not saying that. I would agree with you if I understand your point to be that Israel has a greater responsibility to protect civilian lives. Even at that, any military organization still has responsibilities in the way they conduct hostilities. The fact that hamas doesn't live up to these rules is why it is considered a terror organization and this particular issue is a big problem in my analysis.
So even by denying them statehood. Hamas transgressions has landed them in the position of being considered a terrorist organization and being fair target. What has Israels transgressions resulted in?
 

shamans

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I was talking about Israeli jews post-1948. There was a reason I emphasised Israeli jews and not just jews in general and all of history.
There is absolutely no precedent to claim that Israeli Jews post 1948 would be completely decimated had the powers turned. Unless the powers magically turn right now in which case yeah I'm sure if all black slaves got full power when freed in America, they too would eliminate the owners. Doesn't mean they would be first to do it for no reason.

Reminds me of something "If I don't steal it someone else will"
 

oates

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We should change it to @Palestinian Red
Well it's an idea but I genuinely believe that @Fearless has to be suffering from some sort of medical illness. Not being able to back up his constant fibs, half truths and mistaken beliefs due to a health issue has to be the only reason Admins allow him to continue spamming this thread.
 

Scarecrow

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Imagine getting a message saying that your home and everything in it is going to be blown up today and you need to get out now.
 

Gehrman

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There is absolutely no precedent to claim that Israeli Jews post 1948 would be completely decimated had the powers turned. Unless the powers magically turn right now in which case yeah I'm sure if all black slaves got full power when freed in America, they too would eliminate the owners. Doesn't mean they would be first to do it for no reason.

Reminds me of something "If I don't steal it someone else will"
Some rhetoric prior to the1967 war

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization June 1, 1967"

" "We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967"

" "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

" "Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

" Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967"


Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"


And I don't really have the quote Iran on it's desire to anhihilate Israel. Of course you could say this is just typical war rhetoric, but I see it as pretty plausible if Israel hadn't been strong enough to defend itself.
 
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rotherham_red

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I meant shamams v. Shamana.

Never heard of Holyland. Will have to check that poster’s content out.
Now THAT guy was definitely a Hasbara troll. I don't think he even posted a single time in any football thread.

Like Fearless though, he strangely was immune to getting any discipline for years until even he pushed it too far and got banned
 

Roane

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Imagine getting a message saying that your home and everything in it is going to be blown up today and you need to get out now.
The sad thing is there were obvious means that would show the detail in what is happening in Israel currently that even main stream agencies etc won't do or hide on purpose.

For example Rohingya claims of village destruction are easily verified via Google maps. Thee technology has improved so much you can pick up people, cars etc with clear images.

Yet Palestine and Israel is blurred by both google and Apple. There is no reason for them to do this. Any legal aspect was done away with a while back and even the USA who voiced security etc as reasons no longer does so.

When asked Google and Apple say we are looking to refresh images etc. But they never seem to.

Now this isn't a "they are run by Jews" comment as the evidence would suggest that those is clearly not true. In fact I recall Rabbis telling Israelis to burn iPhones. Think it was to do with not putting Jerusalem as a capital city.

However it does raise the question if we can see pyonyang why not Palestine?