Israel - Palestine Discussion

JakeC

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I assure you I am not taking the piss. Your omission of the genocidal Arab wars that led to where we are now is very convenient and soothing for you.
You clearly are, when you aren't replying to any posts that make you look silly, and repeating the same stupid catchphrases right out of Daddy Bibis handbook.
 

Gehrman

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That's fair enough, but there's other posters in this thread who have that view. Hint: the username rhymes with Cockless.
I don't really consider it a view but a very close historical possibility had Israel not been able to defend itself. I don't really care if @Fearless is aware of this as well. Regarding whether a total destruction of Isreal and a vast majority of it's citizens would justice, well that's view that some people might agree with for understandable reasons especially in those times.
 

africanspur

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At different times there have been different treatment of minorities. Think we can agree on that.

The premise for some of the earlier times was not forceful difference, as in green number plates or yellow stars, it was difference with the view of freedom for all. A sort of wear what you want, eat what you want, even have your own institutions. There were limits applied and I'm not sure some are different to modern times in any country. I'm thinking Christmas holidays are a given here whereas Eid wasn't etc.

With Egypt currently I'm happy to be educated, however and please note I don't support the victimisation of any sect or person, haven't modern attacks against copts been political?

After Morsi wasn't some of it sectarian groups who supported Morsi v those who supported sisi?

A past pope for the copts was seen as an ally if Morsi but the one during the Arab spring was a Sisi supporter (pope Tawadoros).

Other attacks were IsIs related and I don't think they were just targeted at Copts but Egypt in general
I don't think it really offers freedom for all tbh but we'll probably have to agree to disagree. I would certainly hope we can agree on the fact that in modern times, it would not be a way to live.

No they haven't been political. They have been borne of the impression that some Islamists have both fomented and I'm sure some believe themselves, that the Copts were the primary drivers behind Morsi's overthrow, a statistical impossibility considering that they only make up 10% of the population and are spread out across the entire country. This is a view unfortunately shared by some of my wife's family, who also hold such opinions as 'Why do the `christians come out on eid? They should just stay in and leave us in the parks on that day'/'Copts live a much better life here than they ever would in any western country or if they had their own country' and some more...fiery stuff too.

It also ignores that attacks on and discrimination towards the Copts have been going on for decades and predate any real widespread recent popular political activism in Egypt.

No popes were allies for Morsi, who himself smartly avoiding making comments about the Copts but shared stages with Islamists who made horrendous comments about the Copts, both as a presidential candidate and as President. Its relatively difficult for the religious leaders in Egypt to stand too strongly against Sisi and his thugs sadly and its been that way in Egypt since the military took over in the 50s.

Perhaps the last mufti/pope to really try it was pope Shenouda the 3rd, who openly criticised Sadat over the camp David accords and earned himself an exile in the desert until Sadat was assassinated.

There is no communal violence in Egypt, in the same way as there is in Iraq, Lebanon, or even India, whereby two or more roughly even groups spend time beating each other, shooting at each other and blowing each other up. The Muslims in Egypt are almost uniformly sunni, with a small sufi population. The Copts are not equal players in a conflict. There are no Coptic armed groups, no coptic bombs or rockets. I can't think of a single time a Coptic group has targeted a mosque or a Muslim group in any way, shape or form. Copts undoubtedly generally support the status quo in Egypt, the same as the Christians in Syria tended to do the same, because Islamists have given them no reassurance that they won't feck them up if they spend a sustained period in power.
 

africanspur

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I don't really consider it a view but a very close historical possibility had Israel not been able to defend itself. I don't really care if @Fearless is aware of this as well. Regarding whether a total destruction of Isreal and a vast majority of it's citizens would justice, well that's view that some people might agree with for understandable reasons especially in those times.
I don't like it, switch it back please.
 

calodo2003

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It wouldn’t pass an Ofsted, though if the SATs results were good then it probably would
But is this a typical example of a ‘secular’ grammar school there, a kibbutz school, or a religious charter school like we have in the States?

How common is this?
 

MDFC Manager

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Any clue as to what type of school that is, in what type of a curriculum?
Looked like some sort of highly orthodox Jewish school, given they call out "secular jews".

Kinda incredible that these kids then grow up and serve in the humane force that's the IDF.
 

Fearless

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Do you think it’s accurate or just an extreme but not a general view?
Very extreme and should be outlawed. (Israeli) Arab surgeons saved my mothers life and have as much right to enjoy their lives as any other citizen. Cack like this does not represent me, and the huge majority of Israeli's.
 

calodo2003

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Looked like some sort of highly orthodox Jewish school, given they call out "secular jews".

Kinda incredible that these kids then grow up and serve in the humane force that's the IDF.
Thanks. That’s what it seemed.

There’s no doubt many charter schools in my country where such ‘banter’ occurs.
 

Ali Dia

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The roles are reversed. But you don't like it cause if doesn't fit your victim based, left wing narrative. The Jews are the Irish, suffering European and Arab oppression and massacres. Is that they fought back that disturbs you?
I think we were somewhat alike until you turned Palestine into a concentration camp. Ireland has never occupied another population or invaded another country. People can return home and buy a house or land here like in any other democratic country. We don’t oppress defenceless people for our own gain. The English people who live here are our equals and friends with the same rights but under our government. There’s no difference.

Israel are occupying and ethnic cleansing and stealing the resources for themselves just like the English did. You’ve actually become everything you think you’re fighting against but you’re so brainwashed and traumatised by history that you’ll believe anything your told by your government. It’s like a cult. If you’re only as good as your leaders then most counties would be full of the morally bankrupt and corrupt but that doesn’t happen in reality. Normal people aren’t really represented by their leaders but in Israel it’s actually mandatory to go all in on this shit. A whole nation of army trained US funded and sanctioned killers, like shooting ducks in a barrel. Daylight robbery
 

calodo2003

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More ignorance.

They are exempt. There's probably more Arabs in the IDF. I'm serious.
How many Arabs serve in the IDF. A quick search shows that a thousand or so each year enlist.

That’s a higher number than all religious zealots like this?
 

Dumbstar

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If the captions are correct, thats nazi like.
Surely those captions must be fake. No way kids are talking about another race as slaves, or to kill them. Can't be real, my mind can't compute it.

I can understand this happening in extremist caves in Afghanistan or in Iran, or even North Korea. But those countries are being dealt a massive backlash militarily and economically, and rightfully so.
 

Fearless

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[

Surely those captions must be fake. No way kids are talking about another race as slaves, or to kill them. Can't be real, my mind can't compute it.

I can understand this happening in extremist caves in Afghanistan or in Iran, or even North Korea. But those countries are being dealt a massive backlash militarily and economically, and rightfully so.
Can your mind compute this??????
 

Scarlett Dracarys

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I think we were somewhat alike until you turned Palestine into a concentration camp. Ireland has never occupied another population or invaded another country. People can return home and buy a house or land here like in any other democratic country. We don’t oppress defenceless people for our own gain. The English people who live here are our equals and friends with the same rights but under our government. There’s no difference.

Israel are occupying and ethnic cleansing and stealing the resources for themselves just like the English did. You’ve actually become everything you think you’re fighting against but you’re so brainwashed and traumatised by history that you’ll believe anything your told by your government. It’s like a cult. If you’re only as good as your leaders then most counties would be full of the morally bankrupt and corrupt but that doesn’t happen in reality. Normal people aren’t really represented by their leaders but in Israel it’s actually mandatory to go all in on this shit. A whole nation of army trained US funded and sanctioned killers, like shooting ducks in a barrel. Daylight robbery
With a bomb to kill order. It's pointless trying to reason with this type of ignorance. They drank all the fecking koolaid. Actual facts or proof will never be enough or accepted because it doesn't fit their agenda. Propaganda/educational videos has been a part of their curriculum from a young age. It's ingrained in their system and there is no fixing this kind of conditioned hatred.
 

Dumbstar

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Anyway @Fearless, apologies for getting into a tit for tat on the schools curriculums. More distraction.

Could I please request you find out more on the Israelis digging under Masjid Al Aqsa as posted several times before. Thanks, will check in with you on this again.
 

calodo2003

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Surely those captions must be fake. No way kids are talking about another race as slaves, or to kill them. Can't be real, my mind can't compute it.

I can understand this happening in extremist caves in Afghanistan or in Iran, or even North Korea. But those countries are being dealt a massive backlash militarily and economically, and rightfully so.
Such teachings don’t just occur in extremist caves, however. That’s part of the problem.
 

2cents

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Conor said:
Well you seem to be saying that you can't place any expectation of a practicing Israeli Jew to heed warnings of their own people's near past, when confronted with situations where an ethnic group is being persecuted and treated as second class citizens because of their faith. If that's not the case, then I'm sorry, but your post certainly reads that way.
I’m not too sure what the relevance is whether they’re a “practicing” Jew or not, but anyway.

I’m saying while we are all free to draw our own strong conclusions regarding the meaning of the Holocaust, it is unfair to expect there to be a uniform, Jewish conclusion about the meaning of such an event. It is also unfair to then use Jewish victimhood in the Holocaust as an extra stick to beat those Jews who you deem have failed to take the correct lesson from it and apply it in a vastly different context many decades later. The Holocaust wasn’t an ethical educational experience with a clear message imparted, and Jews are not collectively obliged to respond to it in the exact way you might want them to. This is because they are humans who, like all humans, respond to their experiences in different ways depending on any number of factors. Being victims does not automatically confer some special status or responsibility above that which should apply to humanity as a whole (though many Jews are happy to assume such a burden).

I think this thread probably articulates what I’m trying to say better than I am:

 

Charlie Foley

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The roles are reversed. But you don't like it cause if doesn't fit your victim based, left wing narrative. The Jews are the Irish, suffering European and Arab oppression and massacres. Is that they fought back that disturbs you?
Well, which one is it