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Revan

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Seems like China are the super power who have decided to step in. Laying out a 4 point plan, including a sovereign Palestine based on the 1967 lines, and offering for peace talks to take place in China.
Israel would never agree to anything like that, and they have all the cards. Any deal that has any chance of being implemented should be under the current borders, not under borders that were half a century ago.
 

lefty_jakobz

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But, again, isn’t ‘Islamic Jihad’ the name or part of the name of an avowed Israeli enemy?

How would using that group’s name necessarily constitute ‘whitewashing?’
I was quoting what fearfull was saying in his post...
 

The Corinthian

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You should watch it. It's an Arab perspective.

Thoughts on the Israeli perspective?

https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/...should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician

On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.

A day before Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khudair was kidnapped and burned alive allegedly by six Israeli Jewish youths, Shaked published on Facebook a call for genocide of the Palestinians.

The posts were considered as a call for genocide because it declared that "the entire Palestinian people is the enemy" and justifies its destruction, "including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure." she also called for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes."
 

rimaldo

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Seems like China are the super power who have decided to step in. Laying out a 4 point plan, including a sovereign Palestine based on the 1967 lines, and offering for peace talks to take place in China.
they’ll at least be nice and impartial when it comes to deciding what to do with any muslims involved.
 

Fearless

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Thoughts on the Israeli perspective?

https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/...should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician

On Monday Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page: "Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," said Shaked. Standing behind the operations on Gaza, "they are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," Shaked added.

A day before Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khudair was kidnapped and burned alive allegedly by six Israeli Jewish youths, Shaked published on Facebook a call for genocide of the Palestinians.

The posts were considered as a call for genocide because it declared that "the entire Palestinian people is the enemy" and justifies its destruction, "including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure." she also called for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes."
It's bollox.

https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth...-reporters-deliberate-distortions/2014/07/16/
 

The Corinthian

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A father in Gaza writes:

"I did the strangest thing today - I exchanged my children with my brother's. I took two of his children and gave him two of mine. So in case I get bombed, one of mine will survive & if he gets bombed, one of his will live on."

 
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The Corinthian

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That article intimates it was poorly translated:


The gist of his article was that once one side in a war attacks the other side’s civilians, they can no longer morally claim a special status for their own civilians.

Go ahead, ask a Hebrew speaking friend to translate it for you, they’ll confirm this is what my Facebook post was about.
Not really bollocks is it? The rest of the article is just basic deflecting nonsense. Doesn't really refute anything in the original article. Poorly articulated, lots of words, but with no real substance.
 

Cardboard elk

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Jan Egeland, Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council (NRC), says 11 of the 60 children killed so far in the bombing of Gaza was participating in a NRC program to learn how to handle their psychological traumas. They were killed in their homes. I guess there will be others to take their places at the programme.
 

calodo2003

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As I said I was posting his comments...the second part is the important part...
He was obviously using the name of the group. That’s easily understood through the capitalization of those two words, just like you are through repeating those capitalized words.

Not his fault those two words are on your fictitious hasbara bingo card. The second part is the manufactured part.
 

hasanejaz88

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Jan Egeland, Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council (NRC), says 11 of the 60 children killed so far in the bombing of Gaza was participating in a NRC program to learn how to handle their psychological traumas. They were killed in their homes. I guess there will be others to take their places at the programme.
I'm surprised they didn't say that they were training to be Hamas fighters. But I'm sure there was a Hamas fighter hiding in their closets when they bombed their houses.
 

2cents

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Thought this was an interesting read. How accurate is it, @2cents ?

OK Elvis, I’ll have a go through these, tweet by tweet. Obviously the guy says he’s not giving a history, but maybe we can use the tweets to shed some light on stuff. First up...


Regarding the Mufti - he was appointed by the British. He was from one of the notable Arab families of Palestine, the al-Husaynis, whose biggest rivals were the Nashashibi family (considered more moderate and amenable to British authority). The reasons why the British chose him are the subject of some debate, and obviously he turned out to be an awful representative of the Palestinian cause for more than just the reasons given in the tweet. The subject of the appeal of Nazi Germany in the Arab Middle East at this time is hotly debated/very controversial, but needn’t concern us here.

Regarding 1948 - to start with he has his date wrong (the partition plan was late 1947, not 48). The claim that the Zionist leadership accepted the deal requires qualification. I think it would be more accurate to say they indicated a willingness to accept on condition that the Arabs would, knowing that the Arabs would not. There is some debate over whether they intended to expand beyond the proposed borders in any case (there is a famous quote by Ben-Gurion to this effect). Given they knew that war was coming, I’d say their plans were conditioned on the expectation of war.

The Arab armies invaded months later in May 1948, long after Palestine had descended into civil war between Jews and Arabs, and just after Israel declared independence. The Jews had been under the cosh to begin with - communities isolated and under siege, communications severed. It is in part the memory of this part of the war which has produced the Israeli narrative of a nation under siege defying the odds to survive and seize victory. With access to East European arms (in defiance of the British arms embargo) they gained the upper hand and went on the offensive in April 1948. Again there is a debate - did the Arab states invade in response to the Jewish advances, or did the Jews go on the defensive in order to give themselves the advantage when the inevitable invasion came (there had been murmurings of an Arab invasion since at least March I believe)?

The rhetoric of the Arab war machine certainly suggested their aim was to “push the Jews into the sea” or something to that effect. If they’d won that might well have been the result, we cannot know for sure. Although conscious of certain advantages they had (see below), three years after WW2 the Jews were not going to take such threats lightly, and fought accordingly.

However the Arab armies were bitterly divided. King Abdullah of Jordan (who had by far the most competent Arab army at his command) had come to an understanding with the Zionist leadership in advance that Jordan would occupy whatever lands were left for the new Arab state after the fighting stopped. The Egyptian and Syrian leadership were motivated as much by the desire to thwart Abdullah’s plans as they were to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. Lebanon was barely involved. The Iraqis distinguished themselves quite well in the northern West Bank area (I seem to remember a monument to them on the road into Jenin). The Arabs were unprepared, badly trained, and lacking coordination and arms. They also completely underestimated the vigor of Israeli forces (bigoted ideas regarding Jewish cowardice played into this), lacking an understanding of the reasons behind the Jewish presence in Palestine (they derisively refer to Jewish forces as “Zionist gangs” throughout). The result was a decisive, though not conclusive, Israel victory.
 

lefty_jakobz

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He was obviously using the name of the group. That’s easily understood through the capitalization of those two words, just like you are through repeating those capitalized words.

Not his fault those two words are on your fictitious hasbara bingo card. The second part is the manufactured part.
Fictitious?...hes a troll and paid one at that!
 

maniak

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Is that the company you want to be in?
This point is completely lost on Fearless, he keeps talking about hamas, saying they do the same. If your best argument is that you're just doing what hamas does, then you're already in the wrong.
 

maniak

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Paxi

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57159166

A Met Police officer who was filmed hugging a demonstrator at a march and shouting "free Palestine" is being investigated.
The footage shared on social media also shows the unnamed officer holding a white rose and raising her arm in apparent support of those gathered.
Thousands took part in the march through central London on Saturday.
The Directorate of Professional Standards has been informed, the Met Police said.
 

esmufc07

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OK Elvis, I’ll have a go through these, tweet by tweet. Obviously the guy says he’s not giving a history, but maybe we can use the tweets to shed some light on stuff. First up...


Regarding the Mufti - he was appointed by the British. He was from one of the notable Arab families of Palestine, the al-Husaynis, whose biggest rivals were the Nashashibi family (considered more moderate and amenable to British authority). The reasons why the British chose him are the subject of some debate, and obviously he turned out to be an awful representative of the Palestinian cause for more than just the reasons given in the tweet. The subject of the appeal of Nazi Germany in the Arab Middle East at this time is hotly debated/very controversial, but needn’t concern us here.

Regarding 1948 - to start with he has his date wrong (the partition plan was late 1947, not 48). The claim that the Zionist leadership accepted the deal requires qualification. I think it would be more accurate to say they indicated a willingness to accept on condition that the Arabs would, knowing that the Arabs would not. There is some debate over whether they intended to expand beyond the proposed borders in any case (there is a famous quote by Ben-Gurion to this effect). Given they knew that war was coming, I’d say their plans were conditioned on the expectation of war.

The Arab armies invaded months later in May 1948, long after Palestine had descended into civil war between Jews and Arabs, and just after Israel declared independence. The Jews had been under the cosh to begin with - communities isolated and under siege, communications severed. It is in part the memory of this part of the war which has produced the Israeli narrative of a nation under siege defying the odds to survive and seize victory. With access to East European arms (in defiance of the British arms embargo) they gained the upper hand and went on the offensive in April 1948. Again there is a debate - did the Arab states invade in response to the Jewish advances, or did the Jews go on the defensive in order to give themselves the advantage when the inevitable invasion came (there had been murmurings of an Arab invasion since at least March I believe)?

The rhetoric of the Arab war machine certainly suggested their aim was to “push the Jews into the sea” or something to that effect. If they’d won that might well have been the result, we cannot know for sure. Although conscious of certain advantages they had (see below), three years after WW2 the Jews were not going to take such threats lightly, and fought accordingly.

However the Arab armies were bitterly divided. King Abdullah of Jordan (who had by far the most competent Arab army at his command) had come to an understanding with the Zionist leadership in advance that Jordan would occupy whatever lands were left for the new Arab state after the fighting stopped. The Egyptian and Syrian leadership were motivated as much by the desire to thwart Abdullah’s plans as they were to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. Lebanon was barely involved. The Iraqis distinguished themselves quite well in the northern West Bank area (I seem to remember a monument to them on the road into Jenin). The Arabs were unprepared, badly trained, and lacking coordination and arms. They also completely underestimated the vigor of Israeli forces (bigoted ideas regarding Jewish cowardice played into this), lacking an understanding of the reasons behind the Jewish presence in Palestine (they derisively refer to Jewish forces as “Zionist gangs” throughout). The result was a decisive, though not conclusive, Israel victory.
Thanks for this, always find your posts informative/interesting. Please don’t feel the need to do them for every tweet!
 

2cents

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Thanks for this, always find your posts informative/interesting. Please don’t feel the need to do them for every tweet!
I’ll do a few more after the match and leave it then.
 

Fearless

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If you read the link you posted, you'll read that hamas distanced themselves from that group, so they exist but don't represent palestinians in any way. Even if they did, I would assume the dozens of children killed in the last few days weren't members.
Islamic Jihad are firing rockets too. Are you pretending you didn't know that?
 

Foxbatt

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That can't be the case, surely.
It's true unfortunately. The school said it was said to another member of the community. I would say it was said to a Jewish student or a teacher from what I understood from the statement from the school.