Israel - Palestine Discussion

oneniltothearsenal

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How many decades have the Palestinians tried? They absolutely need to get rid of Hamas and Abbas. But Abbas and the Americans and the Israelis would not let anyone competent or charismatic get their heads up.
The Late 90s was the closest era to get some better situation (in my lifetime at least) but the hardliners at Likud facilitated the rise of Hamas because it suited their own personal political gains. Plus, it was Likud's far-right rhetoric that inspired the assassin of Rabin who, along with Peres, were really the most rational leaders of Israel in the last 25 years. Netanyahu, on the other hand, is a truly horrible human being, who deserves no sympathy or respect.
 

adexkola

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Well, if military infrastructure is located in there, by definition certain places within it become such.
I'm challenging your designation of Gaza containing military infrastructure, given that a military is associated with a sovereign state, and engagements between militaries are governed by international law.
 

Gehrman

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He also said Hamas is killing their own children as part of their strategy.
Hamas strategy of putting civilians in the line of danger in order to gain international sympathy is no secret to be honest. As for literally killing their own children I doubt it.
 

calodo2003

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I'm challenging your designation of Gaza containing military infrastructure, given that a military is associated with a sovereign state, and engagements between militaries are governed by international law.
I get your point, but to say that all military engagements are governed by international law is a bit specious.

If weapons are delivered from a certain location, what specific law restricts another entity from retaliating? When is that ever enforced, especially when it is still a very limited engagement as this particular flare up is?

@Raoul brought up the construction of rockets in Gaza. Is eliminating such forbidden by international law? I honestly don’t know the granular details of such, but to try to eliminate an element of that infrastructure will be a right asserted by either side of the equation.
 

Ali Dia

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If you can't fight back then don't start a fight.
Fight back? Are you for real? Your whole country is basically a state of the art military base. Their whole country is a concentration camp controlled by your army base. Most of the recent aggression and major crimes in my lifetime have been in the name of Israeli freedom when you guys are already free. You’ve looted, ransacked and segregated the region You've already won the “fight”. This is just bullshit theft and bullying. The Zionist’s love a bit of theft when their enemy is almost totally defenceless. Israel and their supporters are a disgrace.
 

berbatrick

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https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...s-say-israeli-defence-officials-30483468.html

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

The Israeli supreme court ruled last Thursday that the 'human shield' procedure used by the IDF when detaining Palestinian terror suspects is illegal and violates international law.

Israeli Defense Forces made use of 'human shield' procedures on 1,200 occasions over the last five years, officials said.
 

Dumbstar

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We laugh at the Trumper-like Fearless but it's depressing the world sees the Palestinians through his eyes. :(
 

Raoul

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I get your point, but to say that all military engagements are governed by international law is a bit specious.

If weapons are delivered from a certain location, what specific law restricts another entity from retaliating? When is that ever enforced, especially when it is still a very limited engagement as this particular flare up is?

@Raoul brought up the construction of rockets in Gaza. Is eliminating such forbidden by international law? I honestly don’t know the granular details of such, but to try to eliminate an element of that infrastructure will be a right asserted by either side of the equation.
International law wouldn't really come into play since nothing would be enforceable if the US wasn't on board.

On the rockets; I found this piece interesting.

 

adexkola

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I get your point, but to say that all military engagements are governed by international law is a bit specious.

If weapons are delivered from a certain location, what specific law restricts another entity from retaliating? When is that ever enforced, especially when it is still a very limited engagement as this particular flare up is?

@Raoul brought up the construction of rockets in Gaza. Is eliminating such forbidden by international law? I honestly don’t know the granular details of such, but to try to eliminate an element of that infrastructure will be a right asserted by either side of the equation.
They aren't? :confused:

The US didn't get pulled up over the use of white phosphorus in Iraq, because the UN is spineless. However it was a violation.

You're trying to isolate the issue of sending rockets back and forth. If this was a war between two sovereign powers (e.g. Israel and Egypt), then sure. But applying such logic here bypasses the fact that Israel maintains Gaza as an open air prison and subjects it's occupants to violence on a daily basis. You say that Israel should be able to retaliate based on missiles being fired into it's territory. Shouldn't Palestinians be able to retaliate based on the violence they are subject to every day living in Gaza and the West Bank (not for long)?

I know many people label it as such, but this is not a complicated issue, at all.
 

Fearless

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That video has nothing to do with Palestinians being evicted from their homes today.
Of course it does, and I can fully get why you want history to begin last week.

Palestinians became refugees NOT because they didn't have a state. REVERSE is true: In REFUSING their own state, AND in opening war to prevent Jewish people from having theirs, and in multiple losing wars, they became refugees. 70 years later, they still prefer being refugees over a state.
 

Fearless

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@Spoony is spot on, how is this guy not banned already?

IDF are killing the kids, not Hamas. And the pretence isn't exactly water tight is it? "We have intelligence of" is about as "Saddam has WMDs" as it gets.
Hamas have already claimed the life of Israeli children this week. Perhaps you'd be happy if Iron Dome didn't exist.
 

JPRouve

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I get your point, but to say that all military engagements are governed by international law is a bit specious.

If weapons are delivered from a certain location, what specific law restricts another entity from retaliating? When is that ever enforced, especially when it is still a very limited engagement as this particular flare up is?

@Raoul brought up the construction of rockets in Gaza. Is eliminating such forbidden by international law? I honestly don’t know the granular details of such, but to try to eliminate an element of that infrastructure will be a right asserted by either side of the equation.
That's an interesting question that can only be answered with several others but if we assume that Gaza is a sovereign territory and that there isn't an international embargo on Gaza then the answer to your question is yes, it is forbidden. It's effectively an act of war.
 

calodo2003

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They aren't? :confused:

The US didn't get pulled up over the use of white phosphorus in Iraq, because the UN is spineless. However it was a violation.

You're trying to isolate the issue of sending rockets back and forth. If this was a war between two sovereign powers (e.g. Israel and Egypt), then sure. But applying such logic here bypasses the fact that Israel maintains Gaza as an open air prison and subjects it's occupants to violence on a daily basis. You say that Israel should be able to retaliate based on missiles being fired into it's territory. Shouldn't Palestinians be able to retaliate based on the violence they are subject to every day living in Gaza and the West Bank (not for long)?

I know many people label it as such, but this is not a complicated issue, at all.
Well, you kind of made my point.

This isn’t a legally defined military engagement, it’s quite asymmetrical. Terror is being used by both aides as a weapon. There’s rationalization by both sides for such.

I’ve said in previous posts that I understand why the Palestinians / Hamas are employing their rocket tactics & I largely condone it. They’re using their most effective tactic they currently have. I can’t begrudge them for that.

But, when such tactics are used, there will always be unfortunate consequences. I could use ‘inevitable’ again here, but the unfortunate consequences are to be expected. That’s the terrible reality.

None of these tactical decisions exist in a vacuum & the disappointing part is that civilians get harmed.