Careful, if you accuse Israel of not even treating the Palestinias as human beings you're an anti-semite.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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I only picked up on it today. Like everyone, I would like the conflict to end. It kind goes without saying that I don't want to see innocent people and children dead.
Modern day Apartheid, with Gaza as the Bantustan the Afrikaners couldn't effectively pull off.
Because the media is not reporting it fairly and btw it's not a conflict.
No it wasn't. It's always been a minority who've suggested it and has never had more than 1:2 in favour. It's never been a popular idea, ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution
Anyone using the term conflict, clash or fighting should be given a warning. It's outright murderous bloodshed.
Fair enough, I haven't seen that myself but will watch it.
I do think there is a certain (deliberate?) misrepresentation of the facts in some of their articles on the matter though.
You're not allowed to use the word Palestine anymore either as @owlo will think it anti-semitic. Please use the word 'Future Israel' as it's more inclusive.
A wikipedia link in these circumstances does not help your case. You can't learn the history of Israel/Palestine in the few minutes it took you to skim that article (which article in fact backs up every assertion I made in the post you disagree with, somewhat bizarrely - that it has been touted by Israelis for decades and gained Palestinian support in recent years owing to settler colonialism).
Here's a slightly more nuanced picture for you:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-polls-regarding-peace-with-the-palestinians
The events of the last few days are heartbreaking but IMO are a culmination of the world ignoring the crimes of Israel’s govt for far too long. Quite simply, feck Israel & anyone who turns a blind eye to their crimes.
Yep, it’s not like this is the first time Israel have murdered innocent Palestine children with bombs either, it happens all the time.
The fact that many people genuinely believe it's anti semitic to criticise Israel is the biggest act of brainwashing I've seen in recent years. Well done to them.
Thanks for the explanation. It's a difficult area and needs to be discussed openly. No, it's not helpful to generalise about all who live in a country bring one with the state and the unique nature of Israel and it's association with the Jewish people combined with the very real issue of antisemitism makes this matter especially fraught.
However, I do feel that, in some cases you are making assumptions of anti-semitism that may very well not be there.
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Yang Gang going hard for those New York Mayoral votes.
I don't think anyone truly thinks that but they use it as way to justify the oppression
What a weird attempt to gain votes. Why is a mayor even commenting on that.
He's running for mayor of NY.
Just to clarify, you are denying the right of Israel to exist?
that wasn’t clear enough?
I couldn’t really believe what I was reading so I wanted to double check to confirm.I mean he is aspiring to be one -- why comment on this issue. Blatant sad attempt to gain votes.
I typically take the pro-Israel position but some of the stuff the Israelis are doing right now is really, really bad.
Which maybe makes it even more weird? If he's pandering to Hasidic voters, well, plenty of them are not necessarily Zionists from my understanding, or have things changed?
In the current form that it exists I don't recognize them
As is the case that arguing Israeli lobbying doesn’t exist - it blatantly does and you don’t need to be a conspiracy nut to see it.
Yes, that's precisely why he's doing it. I thought that bit was obvious.
And dumb.
A Sky News report from early on in proceedings, before things escalated.
One side has all the power and uses it to dehumanise, terrorise and provoke a population, being as bold as attacking worshippers inside Islam's 3rd most holy site on the month of Ramadan.
One side has all the power and uses it to dehumanise, terrorise and provoke a population, being as bold as attacking worshippers inside Islam's 3rd most holy site on the month of Ramadan.
Of course its true, for both countries. It isn't racist or anti semitic to say so. Its partly why Saudi can operate with almost total impunity in their war on Yemen or by killing a journalist in an embassy or their terrible record when it comes to women's rights, minority rights or indeed humans rights in general, while Iran receives crippling sanctions, attacks and assassinations.
Israel is essentially an MEDC, a regional military superpower far stronger than any neighbour or surrounding country other than perhaps Turkey and the world's 8th largest arms exporter, yet is the USA's 2nd biggest recipient of military aid and a constant baton to criticise politicians in America, in a way that isn't the case for pretty much any other country.
Does this mean that the nefarious hands of Israel or Saudi controls the mechanisms of power in Washington? Of course not. Is lobbying over exaggerated? Probably. Do these two countries as an example receive disproportionate influence within American politics, considering their tiny populations? I would say so. Clearly you disagree and things like the move of the embassy to Jerusalem happen in a vacuum.
Some of those are, with respect, ridiculous reaches. If someone says the US supreme Court don't care about certain legal opinions, do you extrapolate this to mean they only care about their kids and want other kids to die?
And how long have you been on this board? I've seen loads of posts like lovely people the insert nationality loads of times, attacking in particular the brits or Americans.
Why bring up the holocaust if its about Israel? Is that a serious question? Zionism was started mostly by Jews who'd lived in and been discriminated against in Europe for centuries. The movement gathered pace further due to the holocaust and it underpins the general approach of providing a safe haven for Jews everywhere, in case something like that ever happens again.
The Rachel Riley thing is I believe from when she got herself involved in some twitter spats about anti semitism, I believe mostly in the context of Corbyn and labour support. Don't think it's quite the standard bearer of Jews as a race you seem to think.
I don't like the phrase about respect.
No, I think more trying to deflect the conversation by mentioning random terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims elsewhere or using anti semitism to shield Israel from pretty much any criticism gets pretty old pretty quickly.
For lobbying, see above.
Look, I'm not going to pretend there isn't a stream of anti semitism which unforunately runs through Palestinian activism. I've been involved in the advocacy in my younger days and am infuriated by it every time I see it and try to challenge it when I see it. I also do think the issue takes an outsized importance in many Muslims minds, more so perhaps than oppression against Muslims elsewhere. I've already said I'm uncomfortable with using genocide or the holocaust as a stick to beat Israel with, though for me, it's pretty clear apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
But I have to be honest and say I think you're absolutely reaching here with almost all of these extrapolations and reading what you want to read.
As an aside, imo, the outsized place the conflict plays in the Muslim psyche now, as well as the increased prominence of Islamist parties in Palestinian politics has unfortunately made it easier to paint the conflict as a religious one.
One that exists between the civilised Israel, an outpost of Western civilisation, and the savage Palestinians (read Muslims) who would have peace if only they loved their own kids as much as they hate the Jews.
Not saying everyone believes this of course or even a majority but I've certainly encountered this view more than I did previously.
One that exists between the civilised Israel, an outpost of Western civilisation, and the savage Palestinians (read Muslims) who would have peace if only they loved their own kids as much as they hate the Jews.
Not saying everyone believes this of course or even a majority but I've certainly encountered this view more than I did previously.
Most people I know are very critical of the Israel goverment, but at the same time having Hamas as palestines goverment doesn't do them in favours in terms of image.
It's vile that posts on social media that shame Israel are being deleted/not getting as much reach in the algorithm. I genuinely do think that loads of western countries don't speak up regarding this because they'll then have to take a good hard look at their own historic colonialism. I can't believe there is anyone that actually defends Israel or wishes to recognise them as a state. Disgusting abusive behaviour that should in no way be overlooked.
Wtf?
Anti oppression/apartheid/ethnic cleansing = anti Semitic?
Right then
1000%
Hamas isn't the Palestine's government, nor in control of it.
The sort of criticism you see from most people is proper privileged western form of criticism "Well this is wrong, but it's not nice that you do this". For those who are able to see it it is obvious and sickening.
My bad. They control Gaza though don't they?
Yes indeed.
The safety window in the safe room in my apartment isn't working well, so if a rocket falls on me, it's been a fun ride, lads!
Good luck and stay safe.
