It’s the players, not the manager

jm99

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Our last two managers were managing in Norway and Russia respectively before we appointed them. Some players do need replacing but the idea that if these two managers can't get these players to perform then there's no way that a guy who took Ajax within a minute of the champions League final can, is without basis
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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It didn't collapse, his luck ran out.

If fergie had ole luck he'd have a couple more trebles to his name :lol:
What brilliant insightful thought. You just actually believe in the shamans Yaya Toure was referring too :lol:
 

VidaRed

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What brilliant insightful thought. You just actually believe in the shamans Yaya Toure was referring too :lol:
We won most of the games without actually controlling the game. Thats why ole tried to play a different style of play this season and utterly failed because the players are not up for it.

Your insightful thought on the other hand is were only a manager short of winning the league :lol:
 

ole@thewheel

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If we would have continued with Carrick as interim manager, we would have been in a better position regarding this current season.

But I can understand the idea behind hiring Rangnick at the time. We wanted to 'restart' the club, and having Rangnick was just the first step towards that. He was just got offered the wrong job for that, and he should have been signed as sporting director position instead.

Rangnick was really a bad appointment as a manager for a remainder of this season. A guy that has a rather rusted footballing skills (due to not coaching for some time) and a strict footballing philosophy, which we knew that was not really suited for our current set of players. Also we knew that he will not be the most motivational and inspiring figure on the dressing room due to his pedigree, which you would usually want from an interim coach.
 

VidaRed

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And who do you think is a fault when a whole club collapses and can’t get the players playing well? It’s obviously on the manager. What do you think pep and Klopp do?
Ship players out like they actually did with there respective clubs :wenger:
 

Ali Dia

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Our last two managers were managing in Norway and Russia respectively before we appointed them. Some players do need replacing but the idea that if these two managers can't get these players to perform then there's no way that a guy who took Ajax within a minute of the champions League final can, is without basis
Ajax Is a very well run club though.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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We won most of the games without actually controlling the game. Thats why ole tried to play a different style of play this season and utterly failed because the players are not up for it.

Your insightful thought on the other hand is were only a manager short of winning the league :lol:
Don’t disagree with the bolded. I said for Oles entire tenure that while he was getting a good tune out of the individuals and everyone was pulling together, we wouldn’t match city/Liverpool without that extra layer of control. I like many other fans thought the signings in the summer might try and address that and yes there was some hope and optimism that if Ole put that in place then we would go up another level. Clearly that didn’t happen and Ole showed he lacked the tactical acumen to pull that off, but that certainly didn’t ruin what had been a very positive 2 year spell in the build up.

Second point you’re just making things up. I know for a fact that even Klopp would not have this team challenging next season, that’s fecking obvious. What’s also obvious is that Rangnick is shite and many of these players also aren’t as bad as they are showing right now. A competent manager will have us playing much better football which is frankly all I give a toss about.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Ship players out like they actually did with there respective clubs :wenger:
Jordan Henderson, Matic, Origi, Milner, etc all day otherwise. The list goes on and on. They actually coach their players to play in a system and as a team. We don’t have that. It’s genuinely so simple to understand that it boggles my mind how much fans like to ignore it.
 

jasT1981

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
 

jm99

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Ajax Is a very well run club though.
It is but even still hammering Madrid and juventus on way to the semi finals is s huge achievement. It obviously helps to have a club with s great structure in place, but that run alone puts him miles above Ole and rangnick
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
And I’ll say it yet again (I never get a reply on this point), the players have changed under each manager. Utd fans need to let go of this idea that no manager is fallible. The truth is, just like players there’s a lot of shite managers stealing a living, we just happen to have appointed another one!
 

Random Task

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Jordan Henderson, Matic, Origi, Milner, etc all day otherwise. The list goes on and on. They actually coach their players to play in a system and as a team. We don’t have that. It’s genuinely so simple to understand that it boggles my mind how much fans like to ignore it.
Can you stop creaming over Liverpool five minutes, mate?

We're very much aware they're a proper football club, no need to remind us every chance you get.
 

SirReginald

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
Well there’s been 2 common denominators for the most part. Ed and the playing staff. Whilst Ole is indeed a shite manager there’s little reason or evidence to believe he could have remained and done a better job.
 

The Constant Gardener

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The main thing is the players will still collect their wages at the end of the week.
 

jm99

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
Which of those managers have gone on to show how much better they were than they showed at United? Moyes? Maybe, at a push but even ignoring his results at United look at his interviews "we'll try to make it difficult for them". He was never going to be a united manager with that mentality, so really none of those managers have went to better run clubs with different players and shown how much better they were.

Even the best of the lot, mourinho, was in the bottom half of the table with Chelsea before we appointed him
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Can you stop creaming over Liverpool five minutes, mate?

We're very much aware they're a proper football club, no need to remind us every chance you get.
Nice deflection which completely bypassed the point as usual…
 

Random Task

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And I’ll say it yet again (I never get a reply on this point), the players have changed under each manager. Utd fans need to let go of this idea that no manager is fallible. The truth is, just like players there’s a lot of shite managers stealing a living, we just happen to have appointed another one!
Some players have changed, but many of those who played under LVG are still here today and were a big part of Jose's and Ole's United sides.
 

VidaRed

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Don’t disagree with the bolded. I said for Oles entire tenure that while he was getting a good tune out of the individuals and everyone was pulling together, we wouldn’t match city/Liverpool without that extra layer of control. I like many other fans thought the signings in the summer might try and address that and yes there was some hope and optimism that if Ole put that in place then we would go up another level. Clearly that didn’t happen and Ole showed he lacked the tactical acumen to pull that off, but that certainly didn’t ruin what had been a very positive 2 year spell in the build up.

Second point you’re just making things up. I know for a fact that even Klopp would not have this team challenging next season, that’s fecking obvious. What’s also obvious is that Rangnick is shite and many of these players also aren’t as bad as they are showing right now. A competent manager will have us playing much better football which is frankly all I give a toss about.
These lot will also play better without even a manager if they wanted to.

The players have shown there true colours as far as im concerned, its a showcase of player power and defiance. Its been going on since jose's time and i've had enough of it. I'd even back you TrustInJanuzaj as manager over these players.

I cannot and will not support these players. Its a dead end, even if they improve they won't win any silverware because they're mentally weak. Whats the point in keeping them unless your content with top 4 ? feck that..i want them trophies and these lot haven't got it in them to win any.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Well there’s been 2 common denominators for the most part. Ed and the playing staff. Whilst Ole is indeed a shite manager there’s little reason or evidence to believe he could have remained and done a better job.
Except the players have changed under each manager on the whole. The common denominator is appointing shit managers.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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And who do you think is a fault when a whole club collapses and can’t get the players playing well? It’s obviously on the manager. What do you think pep and Klopp do?
Come off it, so the last 9yrs have all been the managers fault, playing poor football all that time. Its on all of them.
 

Lyng

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Come off it, so the last 9yrs have all been the managers fault, playing poor football all that time. Its on all of them.
This is my big worry for ETH. A large group of our fans are blind to the players behaviour and lack of effort and mentality and just always blame the manager.
 

Hansi Fick

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
Nope. The common factor is hiring wrong or mediocre managers.
It really isn't rocket science. Top club, needs to hire a top manager.
Ole wasn't one. Rangnick isn't one. Ten Hag looks like he is.

So, well done, finally.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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These lot will also play better without even a manager if they wanted to.

The players have shown there true colours as far as im concerned, its a showcase of player power and defiance. Its been going on since jose's time and i've had enough of it. I'd even back you TrustInJanuzaj as manager over these players.

I cannot and will not support these players. Its a dead end, even if they improve they won't win any silverware because they're mentally weak. Whats the point in keeping them unless your content with top 4 ? feck that..i want them trophies and these lot haven't got it in them to win any.
Mentally weak. We have the literal Goat, a 4 times champions league winner, multiple premier league winners, a World Cup winner etc. Again it’s not about absolving all these players of blame, many of them do deserve valid criticism. However, never in the history of football have a whole squad of players underperformed and it not be on the managers head. If it was one or two players fine, when it’s an entire squad, some of which are proven brilliant players and they are all playing shite, the buck has and always will fall on the manager. The problem is utd fans are spoilt and had a manager for years so many don’t understand that more often than not managers are shite, the secret is binning off the crap ones quickly and moving on until you get it right. I’ll repeat again, most of these players have changed under every manager!
 

eire-red

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It's both. Rangnick is not up to the task either. He's been a failure from a managerial point of view.

It's all contributes. There's enough blame here to be shared among everyone.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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"It was Moyes fault"
"It was LVGs fault"
"It was Joses fault"
"It was Oles fault"
It's Ralfs fault"

10 years of excuses. Yes, the managers were some of the problem, but the one common factor is the players.
Moyes, the modern day Frank O'Farrell, was always onto a loser having to follow Fergie.
LVG's best days were behind him
Jose's best days were behind him
Ole was woefully unqualified for the role
Ralf the same
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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None today.

But the majority played under Jose and Ole, some even played this season; Martial, Shaw and Rojo for example.
So what was the problem today? Can you not see that the playing environment at Utd is absolutely sucking the life out of these players? When was the last time a player came in and improved? Are you seriously telling me that Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, Bruno, Rashford, Pogba, Martial etc etc the list goes on, are all not good enough to play for this club? Illustrious, talented players that have won everywhere bar here but suddenly they are the biggest issue?

The long and short of it post Fergie is we haven’t had a world class manager, not even close to it. Liverpool hadnt either until they found Klopp and guess what, overnight pretty much it was all rosy and people will tell you they have a competent board now (they don’t btw!).
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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This is my big worry for ETH. A large group of our fans are blind to the players behaviour and lack of effort and mentality and just always blame the manager.
Crazy in it, both Ole and Ralf havent been good enough the players have been woeful.
 

Robbie Boy

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So a combination of both, which I agree with.

So why are we blaming Rangnick for something he had no part in?
I don't blame him.

There's certainly context to be discussed, but it's impossible on here. I think he's done a poor job though from a coaching POV. He walked into an utter shit-show which I think is totally fair to say. However, I still feel he should have had more of an impact.

Unfortunately, I really feel we pissed away 3-years under Ole. The culture that he left behind is absolutely toxic. I don't think the squad is terrible per-se, however I do feel it's a toxic mess, and the players have been mismanaged for years. That was always going to be a nightmare scenario for any manager to walk into, in all honesty. I still feel he has to take a share of accountability for some utterly terrible performances, but obviously the players do too.
 
Last edited:

Lyng

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So what was the problem today? Can you not see that the playing environment at Utd is absolutely sucking the life out of these players? When was the last time a player came in and improved? Are you seriously telling me that Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, Bruno, Rashford, Pogba, Martial etc etc the list goes on, are all not good enough to play for this club? Illustrious, talented players that have won everywhere bar here but suddenly they are the biggest issue?

The long and short of it post Fergie is we haven’t had a world class manager, not even close to it. Liverpool hadnt either until they found Klopp and guess what, overnight pretty much it was all rosy and people will tell you they have a competent board now (they don’t btw!).
Abit of rewriting history.... Liverpool finished 8th in Klopps first season.
 

flappyjay

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Which of those managers have gone on to show how much better they were than they showed at United? Moyes? Maybe, at a push but even ignoring his results at United look at his interviews "we'll try to make it difficult for them". He was never going to be a united manager with that mentality, so really none of those managers have went to better run clubs with different players and shown how much better they were.

Even the best of the lot, mourinho, was in the bottom half of the table with Chelsea before we appointed him
I keep saying this too. And I have looked at the managers psg have sacked and what they have went and achieved. It shows they really were coaching a bunch of prima donnas in Paris. Ten Hag is probably the closest we have gotten to an Elite manager post Sir Alex. The likes of Bissaka were signed by these managers.
 

VidaRed

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Mentally weak. We have the literal Goat, a 4 times champions league winner, multiple premier league winners, a World Cup winner etc. Again it’s not about absolving all these players of blame, many of them do deserve valid criticism. However, never in the history of football have a whole squad of players underperformed and it not be on the managers head. If it was one or two players fine, when it’s an entire squad, some of which are proven brilliant players and they are all playing shite, the buck has and always will fall on the manager. The problem is utd fans are spoilt and had a manager for years so many don’t understand that more often than not managers are shite, the secret is binning off the crap ones quickly and moving on until you get it right. I’ll repeat again, most of these players have changed under every manager!
Ronaldo was himself laughing on the pitch seeing the state of his team mates. The squad was under performing before rangnick stepped in in the first place.

Great managers recognize they cant polish turd and bin shit players. Don't tell me pep and klopp would waste there time with lingard. Fergie in his time also fecked off shit players regularly instead of wasting his time. He also fecked off not so shit players who could't cut it at utd like veron.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Come off it, so the last 9yrs have all been the managers fault, playing poor football all that time. Its on all of them.
Nope not all on them, but mostly. It’s been a collection of errors from strategic management through to recruitment and the whole football settup in between. The fact remains we have had some unbelievably talented and exciting players at this club over the last decade and the common theme is that they have all mostly failed to deliver on expectaions. You know what we haven’t had in that time? A world class manager. Instead we have scattergunned from one past it shite manager to the next.