It’s the players, not the manager

dinostar77

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Like RR said, club needs open heart surgery. Needs to get rid of alot of players and bring in fresh hungry ones.
 

#07

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Like RR said, club needs open heart surgery. Needs to get rid of alot of players and bring in fresh hungry ones.
Yup.

Only a matter of time before the briefings start and the blame game begins...

...we know what to expect from this squad.
 

Bastian

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Think we need to give out contracts with half of the wage coming from win bonuses. I.e. if a player wants 150K he gets 75K and if the team win around 70% of their matches he can average 150K, or more if the team is playing really well.

No assist or goal bonuses, just the same for the collective, win bonus or nothing.
 

redmanx

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Moreover, it's the same fecking clowns who are fecking the manager. Let's go through all of the suckers I've noticed negatively today.
  • McTominay... Pointless footballer and fumbles everything.
  • Maguire... Absolute shambles at the back (play the offside trap, you moron!).
  • Bruno... He plays as if he doesn't know how to play football anymore.
  • Shaw... Just embarrassing. Mourinho may have been an asshole, but he was absolutely right about you.
  • Rashford... Just retire and go into politics already. Danny Welbeck was shite by lots of standards, but you are now worse than Welbeck.
  • De Gea... What the feck was that on the second Brighton goal? Does the notion of rebound control even a thing anymore?
I could carry a sign that says "I'm with stupid" and it would apply to those names at the moment.
I would add Dalot, Fred and Lindelof, there needs to be a whole sale clear out.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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I would add Dalot, Fred and Lindelof, there needs to be a whole sale clear out.
I know they are really awful, but the aforementioned names are the ones who somehow maintain a pull in the dressing room despite their shitness. I would target them first and then the rest would follow.
 

antohan

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Think we need to give out contracts with half of the wage coming from win bonuses. I.e. if a player wants 150K he gets 75K and if the team win around 70% of their matches he can average 150K, or more if the team is playing really well.

No assist or goal bonuses, just the same for the collective, win bonus or nothing.
That's a great idea until you have to implement it... one contract at a time.

Go sell that to De Jong, he would stay at Barca on half his wages without a moment's thought.
 

Raven

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My suspicions are on rashford and shaw, the other possible candidates already left after last season.
I only say Maguire and Ronaldo because it looks like they've briefed the press against eachother here.
 

VidaRed

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I only say Maguire and Ronaldo because it looks like they've briefed the press against eachother here.
Both briefing luckhurst ?

My money is still on rashford and shaw, i bet both are in maguires camp aswell.
 

tomaldinho1

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Why do the media make such a big deal about who is captain, it’s really not that big a deal in football?

I believe the Ronaldo story though, that’s common sense and how most of us would feel if you had someone who isn’t that good anymore, is overpaid AND is vocal about wanting out.
 

whitbyviking

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Professional pride at least from so many international players would preclude performances likes Saturday under normal circumstances. Something is rotten at the club as many have said. This is all on the players. There have been many inept managers in the game, the senior players always find a way to work around them and with them to a degree. If the managers instructions are unclear then a functioning, confident squad would ignore them and do what they know works, what they have trained for and learned since they were kids.

It will all come out eventually. Just doesn't help in the short term.
 

OpenIntrovert

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As expected, all the media articles are out in full force after we have a defeat. It was the same style of articles during Ole's and Mourinho's time. Anybody who is willing to believe these articles needs to understand that the media thrive on what sells, not the facts.

The issue against Brentford was more of individual mistakes, rather than Brentford tearing us apart. If not for the first 2 goals coming from the run of play, the team might still have the confidence to go for the win. The good thing is that this result shows that the current confidence of the squad is still low, and the best way is to bring in new players (either external or academy) to give the affected players competition. Tactically I felt ETH should have gone for more numbers in the midfield. Bruno and Eriksen ado not have the skillsets to play as CMs and Fred is not a DM, so the midfield looks very out of place. In any game, a midfield that is not in control is bound to end in a loss for the team.
 

Raven

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Both briefing luckhurst ?

My money is still on rashford and shaw, i bet both are in maguires camp aswell.
That's a fair point but I'd then struggle to think why they'd tell him Maguire is not respected as Captain by some.
 

The Sad Clown

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That's a fair point but I'd then struggle to think why they'd tell him Maguire is not respected as Captain by some.
Not sure quite how buddy buddy Rashford and Maguire are given some of their history on the pitch.
 

Lee565

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If it's the players then technically it's those who are responsible for them being at the club.

The players are the last to be blamed because failure trickles down, not upwards. The players didn't write out their own contracts or transfers to the club.
 

scottser

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it's neither the players nor the manager, it's everyone else from the owners, the board and the directors who are the problem. every manager so far has identified players who will fit the team but they are refused. then they buy shite players on huge money and long contracts. the players do not progress because the technical directors either don't know how or aren't allowed to spend money on hiring specialists to address known areas of weakness. for example, who is working with DDG on his footwork skills? His current coach had me bored within 30 seconds of the clip i found on you tube:
Richard Hartis FA National Goalkeeping Coach - 2019 Goalkeeping Coaches Conference - YouTube
Benni McCarthy as striking coach? Seriously? Darren Fletcher?
 

newgiz

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Why do the media make such a big deal about who is captain, it’s really not that big a deal in football?

I believe the Ronaldo story though, that’s common sense and how most of us would feel if you had someone who isn’t that good anymore, is overpaid AND is vocal about wanting out.
I would tend to disagree. When the chips are down you look towards your leader and how they react. We have had fantastic captains at this club Bryan Robson, Roy Keane. They were inspirational.

Then I look at Maguire. If I am squad player at United, I would look at him and ask the question how he gets to start week in and week out after putting in consistently below average performances. I am sorry to say this, he is a symbol of the mediocrity that we have deemed to be acceptable at the club. If we want to become a successful football club once again , I cannot see a space for him in a starting role.
 

Boondog

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it's neither the players nor the manager, it's everyone else from the owners, the board and the directors who are the problem.
Why does everything need to be extreme nowadays.

Of course the players are part of the problem. Of course it's been the manager too. If both those were great the owners would look like geniuses instead of buffoons.

Look I hate the Glaciers and have for years, prior to them buying this team. They deserve the lion's share of blame too, as always with the owner, as the buck stops there. But their main issue is they are completely clueless about the game. They have no idea what they're doing. But there isn't a whole lot we can do about the owners. I'm not willing to let those idiots ruin my fan experience as well as my team.

I happen to think that this team can win in spite of the owners if they can get behind a coach who is dynamic enough. And this coach I believe in. I just hope the owners give him time and support.
 
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Bebestation

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For me the biggest problem is that the club haven’t got behind a ‘footballing philosophy’ and stuck by it.

We can’t keep going from being a a possesion based team in LVG to a counterattacking team under a manager like Jose or from a counter team of Ole to a possession based manager in Ten Hag.

It just means our players become useless every time the tactics change.
 

ti vu

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Why do the media make such a big deal about who is captain, it’s really not that big a deal in football?

I believe the Ronaldo story though, that’s common sense and how most of us would feel if you had someone who isn’t that good anymore, is overpaid AND is vocal about wanting out.
Captains tend to be less criticized in public by managers. It does feel like a special privilege. Captain may not need to be alpha, or star player, but he needs to be consistently better performer. And especially one can't survive on notion being less shite than the worst ones.

At time like this when we can't base captain band by natural leadership skill, it's indeed time for players to vote based on something like popularity. Having a captain with performance issue that also is not popular even among his country men, is certain divisive factor in the dressing room.
 

SirReginald

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You managed to dismantle Pogbas clique but you still have the Portuguese clique. Suppose everyone not in that is unhappy with Ronaldo and possibly Bruno too for all the crying he does to everyone else but never looks at himself.

Your dressing room has to be the most toxic in history.
 

Ash86

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It's actually very funny how this thing is shifting. Sometimes it's the manager and our squad is mismanaged, then all of a sudden it's the players.
You know, i actually think it's both.

I mean some are optimistic about ten Hag, i ultimately want him to succeed as well. But take a look at what this guy has actually done, without all this stupid "changing approach/philosophy whatsoever".
He retained Maguire as a captain, an awful decision. He then agreed to wait on FDJ without pushing for an urgent CM/DM signing, even if it's a 4-5th choice. Again extremely stupid that.
He started first game with McFred, no comment really. The second game is Fred-Bruno-Eriksen, that's actually worse. In two-three months he has not done absolutely anything to prepare the team for the season. We looked absolutely out of sorts physically and tactically in the first two games.
What was he doing these past couple of months?
I am not saying fire the guy, or it's his fault or anything, but let's face it. His start has been bad and it is due to the quality of the squad and our management team (CEO/DOF), but also, also his own mistakes.
 

Suedesi

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Yup.

Only a matter of time before the briefings start and the blame game begins...

...we know what to expect from this squad.
We didn't have to wait for too long.

Like clockwork after an abject performance, these divas go on and brief their pals in the media.

It must be the English contingent - looking at Rashford, Shaw and Slabhead.
 

Suedesi

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Why does everything need to be extreme nowadays.

Of course the players are part of the problem. Of course it's been the manager too. If both those were great the owners would look like geniuses instead of buffoons.

Look I hate the Glaciers and have for years, prior to them buying this team. They deserve the lion's share of blame too, as always with the owner, as the buck stops there. But their main issue is they are completely clueless about the game. They have no idea what they're doing. But there isn't a whole lot we can do about the owners. I'm not willing to let those idiots ruin my fan experience as well as my team.

I happen to think that this team can win in spite of the owners if they can get behind a coach who is dynamic enough. And this coach I believe in. I just hope the owners give him time and support.
Their main issue is their absentee landlords that have not invested one cent into the business and have largely let a bunch of b(w)ankers run the club. There is absolutely no clear direction on what the owners intend to do with the club, there's a lack of organizational cohesion on the football side, people with unclear roles not to mention decrepit training facilities, a water leaking Old Trafford, a mish mash of grossly overpaid, underperforming and unbalanced squad, and a fanbase that is becoming more and more toxic given the product on display.

Glazers need to go.
 

DSG

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Their main issue is their absentee landlords that have not invested one cent into the business and have largely let a bunch of b(w)ankers run the club. There is absolutely no clear direction on what the owners intend to do with the club, there's a lack of organizational cohesion on the football side, people with unclear roles not to mention decrepit training facilities, a water leaking Old Trafford, a mish mash of grossly overpaid, underperforming and unbalanced squad, and a fanbase that is becoming more and more toxic given the product on display.

Glazers need to go.
I agree with this. The douchebaggery of the Glazers is the poison that permeates every layer of the organization.

On the topic of “It’s the players”, well, we need to logically go through this.

Ole was manager from Dec 19 2018 to Nov 20 2021, almost 3 full seasons in charge. After taking over, he finish 6th, 3rd and 2nd. 22 of the 29 in first team squad were on the team when Ole took over for Jose in Dec of 2018. That includes academy graduates (Greenwood, for example). Notable players who were not in the first team when Ole joined were Maguire, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Bruno, AWB and DvB. He had Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho for less than half season.

When Ole achieved 3rd and 2nd, made the finals of Europa, other than AWB and Maguire and Bruno, the spine of the team was largely the same as under Jose.

Given that Ralf was a disaster, and Ten Hag’s start has been abysmal, how do we view Ole’s tenure?

If it’s 100% on the players who are lazy and awful, how was Ole able to motivate them? The away undefeated streak? The number of games we came from behind?

‘We’ve all made the jokes about how Ole was tactically a simpleton, but why was he able to get so much more out of these players than Jose, Ralf and Ten Hag (so far)?

Ole needed to be sacked for us to move forward as a club. Losing 5-0 to Liverpool at home is a travesty, and we could all see the wheels coming off. But some part of me looks at what Ole was able to achieve with a squad of pretty mediocre players, and I feel that many in the Caf have been way too harsh on Ole. It seems to me that there is a bit of intelligence involved in looking at your squad and setting them up in a way that may be limited, but gets decent results.
 
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