It’s the players, not the manager

[Tyrion]

From what? A pool of overrated, spoiled group of players who've let down a couple of different managers now?

The players who "let down" Mourinho are different to the ones who "let down" Ole.

Sancho, Ronaldo, Maguire, AWB, Cavani, Bruno all came in under Ole, not Mourinho.

Jose let himself down and so did Ole.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Good thread, very measured and reasonable point.

 

[Based Adnan]

Most of this group have been failures for several seasons. On top of that they have the audacity to moan about late training as it's dark at 5PM when they finish. They're a rotten group and any manager would experience issues with them.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's the upper leadership, who for some reason refuses to either get the right manager for the players, or the right players for the manager. It's always a poor fit.

That being said, Ralf has been very poor thus far and should never be in consideration for the permanent role.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Of course it's the players. They are dossers. They have the dream job, massive wages and not required to deliver on the pitch.

 

[Remember the geese]

I honestly don't know what it is. It just feels like everything this club touches, turns to shit. We would turn Messi into Jesse.

 

[DWelbz19]

If the manager drops the big names then he'd have a horde of fans baying for his blood.

That’s exactly why we need a manager worth his weight who will do just that. You think Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Conte et al. would play all the big names just because? They play a side that fits the system that they want to implement.

 

[pocco]

One of the highest wage bills in the world. We've created this mess by rewarding mediocrity.

 

[Moston Red]

It’s the decision making at a higher level. They haven’t got a clue. Poor decisions in recruitment and expecting the next manager to work miracles.

They’re focused on finance and not football.

 

[horsechoker]

The players who "let down" Mourinho are different to the ones who "let down" Ole.

Sancho, Ronaldo, Maguire, AWB, Cavani, Bruno all came in under Ole, not Mourinho.

Jose let himself down and so did Ole.

Why have 4 managers in a row let themselves down?

 

[SirScholes]

That’s exactly why we need a manager worth his weight who will do just that. You think Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Conte et al. would play all the big names just because? They play a side that fits the system that they want to implement.

We don’t have a squad that fits the system because ole was let loose with 400mil and blew it

 

[ForeverRed1]

Luke shaws body language looks terrible.

he looks utterly dejected.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Why have 4 managers in a row let themselves down?

yep, that’s what happens when you keep picking the wrong manager.

getting that part right is the most important decision the board can make.

See city with pep and Klopp with Liverpool. A manager can be very good but are they the right fit for united.

 

[Orton]

Management, owners, players. It’s all of them. We have guys on ridiculous wages, what have they achieved? How did they earn the right to stroll out there and act like they are ballon dor winners? We are so far off the top it’s sickening when you see how much money has been wasted assembling this squad.

 

[horsechoker]

yep, that’s what happens when you keep picking the wrong manager.

getting that part right is the most important decision the board can make.

See city with pep and Klopp with Liverpool. A manager can be very good but are they the right fit for united.

Why is is us picking the wrong manager? At least Chelsea get about 1 in 3 right.

 

[sullydnl]

Not even sure it's the players individually (though some of them certainly aren't good enough) but rather the players as a collective.

They're a miss-matched bunch who operate to less than of the sum of their parts. If you make a few of the right changes some will up their game as part of the more coherent collective and look better than they do now but making the right changes is the hard part and involves both coaching and recruitment.

What I would point out when people criticise their attitude is that one of the defining features of last season was the players making comeback after comeback in a malfunctioning and ill-prepared side. That doesn't happen if their attitude was irreparably rotten.

 

[KingCavani]

There is a culture of complacency that has just destroyed the standards of the club. We're the club to go to for an easy pay day.

The damage Woodward and the ownership have done to this club can't be put into words. It's almost impressive to get so little for the amount of money spent on transfers/wages and it speaks to a completely disorganised, reactionary club with no idea what it's doing. The product on the pitch is a mirror image of the state of the club.

We've handed out world class wages to players after a few good months of form. You have Martial being paid like Harry Kane and Rashford being paid like Mo Saleh. We made De Gea the highest paid keeper in the world after almost 18 months of poor form. Even if he recovered his form the process by which we reward players versus holding them to account is actually upside down. We're paying Mata because he's a nice guy. We "protect our assets" by making players unsellable. We were actually trying to negotiate a new deal for Lingard before he broke off talks. We were still considering making Pogba the club's highest earner after he's undermined the club and several managers countless times. A club with standards would be making it a priority to get some of these players out the door. Ferguson was famous for doing exactly that.

And this is only talking about our in house business. Our recruitment is somehow even worse.

 

[Lee565]

You have a manager playing the likes of Greenwood and rashford in a hybrid number 10 position...

 

[ForeverRed1]

Why is is us picking the wrong manager? At least Chelsea get about 1 in 3 right.

Because we haven’t had that pep or Klopp moment yet where we get it right. You never really know until they come but it’s going to take a special manager to sort this. Moyes wasn’t for us, nor was LVG or mourinho, or ole... rangnick is a question mark but it’s not looking promising.

The summer they got to get this right, which is why I’d like to see Ten Haag. The next big thing in football imo.

 

[Sea-Cow]

They all look so miserable. Just a soft bunch of whiny bastards.

Its hard to like any of them, apart from Rashford. And that is for work away from football.

Its just so depressing.

 

[JinnerJamie]

One of the highest wage bills in the world. We've created this mess by rewarding mediocrity.

This is a major component of it, ‘oh wow you scored a goal… how does 200,000 a week sound?’

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I agree, Rangnick was never going to get the new manager bounce, and has alot of players that he must know by now that are not good enough, or are not going to fit the style he is here to start teaching them. On top of that he has an unusual number of players that will probably leave in the next 6 months.

I see him as someone who is just the manager for now to get a first hand view of what is needed to move things forward, and then he can move to a position where he really influence things.

Things could maybe be really tough until the end of the season, I just hope we stick to the plan with Rangnick whatever happens.

 

[thegregster]

Why is is us picking the wrong manager? At least Chelsea get about 1 in 3 right.

None of the top managers want to come to United because of the Glazers. That's the major problem at the club.

 

[lex talionis]

United are a club that feeds off nostalgia. We wanted a Scot as manager. That didn't work out. Then we went for a former glory Dutch manager, then a former glory Jose. Then a former glory in Ole. The players we brought in had to be British, or legends or whatever. There has been no cohesion in our management -- other than picking up great endorsement deals like Chevrolet, Maui Jim and Kohler -- or in our manager's management.

Ronaldo has been one of our better players this season but we should not have played the nostalgia card by bringing him him back. Maguire for 80? AWB for 50? Bigging up McTominay as as an undroppable as though he's the new Keano? Persisting with Rashford? Buying Donny and never using him?

The problems are rampant throughout the club. But we already knew that. Today the main problem was in midfield, which couldn't string two passes together. But it wasn't limited to the midfield. On the bright side, Jones was fantastic today Yes, he headed the ball to Moutinho but Moutinho still had a lot to do and in any event just about every CB in the world now would head the same ball to the same place. Much better to concede the corner kick IMO than to put the ball back into the danger zone.

 

[AneRu]

It's not the on just the players, the manager has to take his fair share of the blame. Why are we so open? It's happened in every game since Palace and he hasn't rectified it. The two wingers he started with don't have enough energy off the ball to help out the two DMs and with Wolves playing 3-5-2, with better midfielders than us, our midfield was overwhelmed.

Ralf has to admit that we don't have the sort of No. 10 that could thrive in this formation because the ones we have are either converted wingers or they don't take care of the ball well enough to help us establish a foothold in the match. If we play this nonsense against a better team we will be torn to shreds.

Zero off the ball movement so how do you knit together decent passes? And if the players aren't responding, we have a big squad why not drop those not listening or executing instructions well?

 

[manichester]

It does not matter what system is deployed this team cannot consistantl pass the ball 5 yards and are overall lazy.

 

[Loida]

Agree we go for not top managers constantly. Mourinho was one, but we know the risk with him.

Jose didn't suit our squad back then as Rags doesn't suit this one, funnily Jose's style would suit the current squad, but he's not a top class manager anymore

Mourinho wasn’t top neither. Guy had been sacked from his previous two jobs for underperforming

I don't believe Mourinho isn't top manager anymore , because it will hard for any other manager to beat his achievement at United , and even at spurs it will be hard for conte to beat his too such as topping the league for brief period or reaching cup final without wholesale change of their squad. Ancelotti has been sacked more times than Mourinho, was he a finished manager or it's just Everton whom were shit ? Remember what Mourinho said after he left , he said finishing second with United was one of the best achievement his career , he said people don't believe it because they don't know what happened behind the scene. And he also said "time has spoken , the problem is still there". Someone has to ask him what exactly is the problem, is it the board, culture, players , structure or combination of everything ? United is in deep mess, whatever it is i don't think anyone can fix it for the next decade.

 

[TsuWave]

I don't believe Mourinho isn't top manager anymore , because it will hard for any other manager to beat his achievement at United , and even at spurs it will be hard for conte to beat his too such as topping the league for brief period or reaching cup final without wholesale change of their squad. Ancelotti has been sacked more times than Mourinho, was he a finished manager or it's just Everton whom were shit ? Remember what Mourinho said after he left , he said finishing second with United was one of the best achievement his career , he said people don't believe it because they don't know what happened behind the scene. And he also said "time has spoken , the problem is still there". Someone has to ask him what exactly is the problem, is it the board, culture, players , structure or combination of everything ? United is in deep mess, whatever it is i don't think anyone can fix it for the next decade.

Just because Mourinho said it, it doesn't mean it's true. Ancelotti left Everton for Real, and I don't think there are many people who have Ancelotti up there with the likes of Pep, Klopp or maybe even Tuchel. Fine manager, but he's likely a tier below all of them.

 

[Loida]

Just because Mourinho said it, it doesn't mean it's true. Ancelotti left Everton for Real, and I don't think there are many people who have Ancelotti up there with the likes of Pep, Klopp or maybe even Tuchel. Fine manager, but he's likely a tier below all of them.

Ancelotti won more UCL than any of the manager you mentioned , and has good chance to win it again this season with Real Madrid , they actually look like a great team once again with him , 78% win rate so far with current Madrid squad , just because Everton is shit doesn't mean he is finished. It's similar case to Mourinho , just because United and Spurs are shit doesn't mean he is finished. You can call him finished or whatever but no manager is going to beat his achievement at United for the next decade , someone like Pep will stay away from your club because he rather statpad at a well-run club than ruining his cv here.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Defo the players.

They just don't want to work hard enough for success.

We have too many that want to be the hero but not put in the hard yards.

I want a manager that breaks the lazy cnuts. If the players need to be sold them that's fine.

Ralf knows who doesn't work hard enough.

Now the question is whether the board are going to back his and likeminded peoples opinions or just let another new manager find the same weaknesses.

 

[Rolledo]

When a top manager in his prime fails here, I'll start believing this.

Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick weren't/aren't top managers in their prime here. Most, if not all, of them were lucky to even be considered for this job.

So you’re saying lets not pass judgement until a TOP manager in his PRIME comes here and fails? Absolute Bollocks. These players have been shit for years. No excuses for that.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Its the players IMO. Especially in MF. Maybe you could argue Ralf got the tactics wrong in the middle tonight as wolves looked like they had two extra players. But Mctominah just isnt good enough. Keane has been saying this for three years. Neves showed tonight how a MF should play. Mctomaniah just passes five yards to the first person he sees.

We got a bit better when bruno came on although i would have taken cavani off instead. But bruno started playing the passes.

 

[TsuWave]

Ancelotti won more UCL than any of the manager you mentioned , and has good chance to win it again this season with Real Madrid , they actually look like a great team once again with him , 78% win rate so far with current Madrid squad , just because Everton is shit doesn't mean he is finished. It's similar case to Mourinho , just because United and Spurs are shit doesn't mean he is finished. You can call him finished or whatever but no manager is going to beat his achievement at United for the next decade , someone like Pep will stay away from your club because he rather statpad at a well-run club than ruining his cv here.

Ancelotti won the bulk of his CL throphiws well over a decade ago. It doesn’t mean he’s up there with the managers running the game now. Again, Ancelotti left Everton for the biggest club in the world. How is that comparable to Mourinho being washed up and sacked from his last two gigs for being, well, washed up?

I don’t care about your prophecies. Mourinho is washed up. It is what it is.

 

[RedStarUnited]

When a top manager in his prime fails here, I'll start believing this.

Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick weren't/aren't top managers in their prime here. Most, if not all, of them were lucky to even be considered for this job.

These players need Pep to coach them how not to under hit/overhit passes?

 

[Ali Dia]

I've been banging this drum for years. You are only as good as your players.

This and your recruitment. If players are here a few years and haven’t kicked on, which they havent, we have won anything in years. You move them on. You keep moving the talent through the club until you hit gold. We’ve become a graveyard for talent. So many players here now on the cusp of falling down the game or retiring. It should be the other way around.

 

[Abraxas]

It's a hard thing to separate because it's always the managers (at least as a collective bunch) that have bought the players, for the most part. Maybe that will change in the near future but that has been the modus operandi in assembling this squad.

What have we seen from said managers? Failure after failure. Poor results, tumescent football and ultimately not reaching objectives. So you cannot really have faith in the squad they have put together if that is the output, and you cannot have faith in the management itself. There is no real separation between the two, failing managers have unsuccessful players that look poor, and failing players get a manager sacked.

Forget Rangnick. He's trying to assemble a team from this random bunch of individuals. So far it's not been great on the eye and some of his stuff has left him open to criticism but I don't think his tenure which is a handful of games shows much, except that we're in a real predicament.

All we can do now is get this next appointment right. Hope whoever it is can very quickly make judgements on this squad, and that he has significant ability to reshape things. Some of these players will have to be relied upon for some years to come so it's vital we get someone that can make efficient, intelligent judgements. Not to mention we have to be efficient in the market.

 

[Polar]

We have overestimated the quality of our players for a long time. Don’t know if any of our players from last season (except of probably Shaw) would’ve been starters for Liverpool or City.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Who picks the players? Mods please delete this thread.

You can only pick from what you’ve got. These are a petulant, rotten bunch.

 

[Reddevildans]

Far too much individualism in these players. Not squaring the ball, not playing that extra incisive pass, not looking for the better option, dribbling into walls of defenders, shooting from stupid areas. The list goes on. I thought it was a coaching issue. Clearly still is and clearly the players are to blame aswell. Far too many low IQ players aswell.

 

[Pronewbie]

Don't forget the board. It's all of the above. We are clearly a very fractured club.