The captain, no less...
It has happened under every manager since Fergie left...
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We've been failing to press effectively for ages. It's also a by product of playing horrible football. When you play poorly and without any coordination this is what's happens. But we did not settle for anything. We jut seemed to lack confidence and rhythm.
I haven't seen a lack of effort. I've seen frustration and a string of ridiculous misses.
And Jose's signing.
But I say Pogba should do more because he's got the tools. He should be driving at teams. He was too content to pop asses around. The rest put in a good shift.
Who is also our most expensive player ever in history and is supposed to be the talisman of the team, driving us through such tough games with his individual quality.
I can't really remember the last time that happened.
But we run a diffrerent model from majority of other clubs. So if in the end we approach this way, then why bothering giving a new manager full power at first just to overrule him in the end?
I said after the city game, manager has to take the blame but our players at least most of them do not understand the importance of wearing a united shirt. At least jose knows that, Jose understand's that. Do not see that with many players. Some are there for huge paycheck, donkeys like fellaini holding club for ransom, Ashley young made as the most important player, some players smiling and hugging even after drawing. Jose was fuming and that's what I want from my players. I do not see that. Only players who looked gutted yesterday were Matic, de gea and Lindelof yes Lindelof. Pogba should not be the captain, he is no terry or Rio or even Gerrard who understood what it is to lead. Give it to DE gea.
I saw shaw yesterday about to cry the way jose was screaming at him. I don't know how guys like him can take the club forward. Mkhi the same. We are Manchester United and not running children's day care. Yes job lies with jose to help them but ffs I do not blame him for acting like that in touchline. Yesterday was shocking.
I saw shaw yesterday about to cry the way jose was screaming at him. I don't know how guys like him can take the club forward. Mkhi the same. We are Manchester United and not running children's day care. Yes job lies with jose to help them but ffs I do not blame him for acting like that in touchline. Yesterday was shocking.
Because as good as people think he is (I don't rate Poch particularly that high to be fair), he won't ever be able to compete for the top trophies while he is at Spurs. In fact, he hasn't won anything in his career yet, and being in half of the budget his rivals are means that this won't change soon.
Poor signings, lots of injuries, soft players, lack of vision by the board. The struggle is real.
We're not overruling the manager. We're just not releasing funds to gut the squad which is 3rd in the table. I think thats the view Glazers will take. Just my opinion though. Hopefully, I'm wrong and they give Jose all the support he needs.
He should never be captain. He's not serious enough. Give it Young or someone who cares. Not sure if Mourinho is trying to give him more responsibility or something.
FWIW I don't think the sky is falling just yet. There's naturally gonna be a slump when you're defeated by your closest rivals and the title race is simultaneously ended. If this continues into the new year, then yea, we've got big problems but Rome wasn't built in a day. Only Abu Dhabi was. lol
Someone said that the worst United finished under Fergie was 3rd. Look at the squads those years. There's loads of "average" players in there. O'Shea, Kleberson, Richardson, Fortune...The difference being, most of them actually gave a shit and busted a gut when they put on the shirt.
I think we just have to give Mourinho time to reshape the squad how he wants (as long as he's meeting targets). City didn't hire Guardiola and expect to win it all day 1. They'd been planning it for 4 years, now they're reaping the rewards (or will be in May). We need to have some stability.
We look like we haven't got out of the first gear. Only urgency we showed yesterday was in the last 5 mins or so. Thats unacceptable. That's either on the manager or on the players.
Cos all of our manager since have gone on about what a ‘nice group of lads’ we have rather than be ruthless like SAF sending Beckham and Rooney to stands for biggest games. Selling players out of line no matter how big. Even having likes of Keane literally screaming at own players on the pitch. Miss the good ol’ days. All so mellow now. 
Only way to fix it is for THE man to come back. Should not have left actually. With every passing week, his legend grows.
It’s not short sighted in the slightest. Compare our squad with those of our rivals, plus respective form, and it’s a totally reasonable prediction. Everyone was chuntering on for ages about how it’s okay because we’re comfortably second and we’ve already been overhauled. Spurs and Liverpool are now right up our arses...
Thought this thread was going to be regarding the outrageous amount of money available/given to our managers post Ferguson.
Silly amounts of money to shape the squad as they see fit.
Silly amounts of money to shape the squad as they see fit.
Do you really think the rest were fine?? Utterly abject performance from about 8/9 players, all showing a total lack of effort and desire. Half of them seem to not want to be the best in their position at the club let alone in the PL (let's forget about world class status as we only have 2 players in or even close to that).
If they weren't coasting I'd hate to see it when they are.
Completely scattergun spending. I don’t think we’ve signed one player that you could say has been an outright success. Fecking diabolical.
Aye, here goes the you don't appreciate till you lose it adage but that's ultimately the truth here, SAF kept literally everything together here.
It's quite unbelievable that he managed to do that whilst still competing at the top. Doing wonders really. I mean, I don't think there is a person on earth who could have achieved what he achieved. Sir Alex should be judged on so much more than accolades. Truly the greatest manager ever IMO.
That needs to change, clearly. Should build for the future and continuity of the club no matter who the manager is.
Once he won the title though he never finished outside the top 4 again.
Every manager since Fergie left has cared more about defending than attacking. The players can’t buy into this tumescent football when the results stop. Same happened with Van Gaal in his second season to a greater extent.
Fergie was an incredible coach. One thing he did best was to constantly pressure and motivate his players into getting results.
Thanks.
By the way, the 'Fergie time' characterizes very well the managerial skills of SAF
We are not a team. I see runs being made but no passes through so by the time a player makes a decision the opposition have got back in to position where it's guaranteed United will play through the middle. Our club captain will only play a couple of token games before retirement and our vice captain is a mute. The only players I would keep from SAF era are Jones, Lingard if he keeps this form and De Gea who I wouldn't begrudge a move at this point. Any player left should be no where near the starting 11.
We can't heap all the blame on the manager as he has the same look on his face as we do watching these players fumble around. Tactics and motivation are one thing but playing instinctive football and being in sync with you're team mates are another. These players since Moyes can't really do both and very rarely do I see football intelligence in our team. It's this that separates amateurs from professionals and it should be expected.
I have full faith in Mourinho but maybe it's time he shook up his back room staff because on top of a couple of solid transfer windows we need a new approach. Last season after October and this also we become the easiest point in the league. Predictable play, always down the middle with brainless football all over the pitch.
This is what I expected over the last three games. Smalling should have been off against Leicster and we go 10 v 10. Without him in that position someone would have covered. I would also have told De Gea to come out and clear anything that comes in to the 6 yd area.
Against Burnley the players should have looked at each othe being 0-2 down at half time. Examples of all the times this club has come out fighting in games like these should have been shared. We all know the home crowd would have pushed them on but it took a last minute equalizer to scrap a point at home, fecking unacceptable for players of this club.
Yesterday should have seen Martial on instead of Rashford who has been our worst player since October. Rashford should have been given the xmas off not played down the center. The lad doesn't even contest a clearance or kick out, watch him, he does a token jump and just lets the opposition walk away with the ball. Someone from the reserves who can run the wings should have been played before Mkhitarian yesterday. A bit of excuberance and unpredictability could have been the difference yesterday.
All in all we are doing the same thing we have done for the last 4 years with our 3rd manager which indicates to me that the players as a whole are to blame. Herrera, Mata, Smalling, Darmian need to go. Blind is a useful player that can be a stopgap at the back or DM during injuries or suspension. Fellaini has his advantages and should be used in the way Everton utilized him as a 10, he brings something different for games like yesterday but should never be relied on as a starter. Martial should be playing every fecking game and Rashford should be used as sparingly as possible as he is just not ready to nail down a permanent place in the starting 11. I'm happy with Bailly, Jones, Rojo and Lindelof but Valencia needs to be replaced but kept and a WC LB acquired while Shaw sorts himself out. Those two are still decent options though. Matic and Pogba need a cnut in there with them and I would sign Arturo Vidal to do that dirty work. A Rw and #10 are essential this January or asap in the summer and another forward if the price is right, preferably a steady established professional or a hungry bastard with something to prove.
A good run in the FA cup, a steady finish to the league with 2nd or 3rd place nailed down early and a fecking all out assault on the champions league would be a satisfactory season in my opinion.
We can't heap all the blame on the manager as he has the same look on his face as we do watching these players fumble around. Tactics and motivation are one thing but playing instinctive football and being in sync with you're team mates are another. These players since Moyes can't really do both and very rarely do I see football intelligence in our team. It's this that separates amateurs from professionals and it should be expected.
I have full faith in Mourinho but maybe it's time he shook up his back room staff because on top of a couple of solid transfer windows we need a new approach. Last season after October and this also we become the easiest point in the league. Predictable play, always down the middle with brainless football all over the pitch.
This is what I expected over the last three games. Smalling should have been off against Leicster and we go 10 v 10. Without him in that position someone would have covered. I would also have told De Gea to come out and clear anything that comes in to the 6 yd area.
Against Burnley the players should have looked at each othe being 0-2 down at half time. Examples of all the times this club has come out fighting in games like these should have been shared. We all know the home crowd would have pushed them on but it took a last minute equalizer to scrap a point at home, fecking unacceptable for players of this club.
Yesterday should have seen Martial on instead of Rashford who has been our worst player since October. Rashford should have been given the xmas off not played down the center. The lad doesn't even contest a clearance or kick out, watch him, he does a token jump and just lets the opposition walk away with the ball. Someone from the reserves who can run the wings should have been played before Mkhitarian yesterday. A bit of excuberance and unpredictability could have been the difference yesterday.
All in all we are doing the same thing we have done for the last 4 years with our 3rd manager which indicates to me that the players as a whole are to blame. Herrera, Mata, Smalling, Darmian need to go. Blind is a useful player that can be a stopgap at the back or DM during injuries or suspension. Fellaini has his advantages and should be used in the way Everton utilized him as a 10, he brings something different for games like yesterday but should never be relied on as a starter. Martial should be playing every fecking game and Rashford should be used as sparingly as possible as he is just not ready to nail down a permanent place in the starting 11. I'm happy with Bailly, Jones, Rojo and Lindelof but Valencia needs to be replaced but kept and a WC LB acquired while Shaw sorts himself out. Those two are still decent options though. Matic and Pogba need a cnut in there with them and I would sign Arturo Vidal to do that dirty work. A Rw and #10 are essential this January or asap in the summer and another forward if the price is right, preferably a steady established professional or a hungry bastard with something to prove.
A good run in the FA cup, a steady finish to the league with 2nd or 3rd place nailed down early and a fecking all out assault on the champions league would be a satisfactory season in my opinion.
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If Ferguson was 20 years younger I doubt Smalling, Mata and Herrera would be here and I guarantee Harry Kane would be playing up front. Although I blame Gill and him for a lot of our issues the guy is a fecking legend of the game. Longevity coupled with consistent success and the ability to rebuild and adapt to a changing game will never be matched. His only comparison for longevity is Wenger but he is an embarrassment at this point and I think he is only hanging on so he can be the longest serving manager but the longer he stays the more he becomes a tumor on that club. He is not fit to open Sir Alex's win never mind match him professionally.
Effort wise, yes. Peformance wise we were rubbish.
Why do people cite the Dof model as if it isn't fulkl of problems itself? There's been countless issues at other clubs where a Dof brings in players who the manager doesn't want and it leads to all sorts of blame shifting and problems. Pep doesn't have a Dof telling him who they need to sign and if a manager's head is ultimately on the chopping block then he should have full control over transfers just like Fergie did. Moyes and LVG were woeful in the transfer market and both ultimately paid the price but neither can say someone else picked the players. You'll end up with a weekly Giggs/Wenger quote of "I told Dof to sign X instead he bought Y".
Failing to press.. whose fault is that?
Feck me, tactics or not, there were ten minutes left against a shit team at home and the score was 0-0 – are these players incapable of a bit of independent thought and urgency?
Every big club has a DoF-like position, including City who have Bergeristein who was creating the platform for Pep to succeed.
There should be a long term vision, be it a long term manager (they don't exist anymore) or something like a DoF. Changing the entire philosophy of the club every three years is a recipe for disaster.
And that's the most effective way to evaluate a manager at any given time. People have the bad habit to judge managers by their palmares or their reputation as if there was no evolution or fluctuations. When a manager is in a period of greatness or at least at his peak, he will maintain a high level of cohesion, focus, hunger and he will make the sum greater than its parts. The same way I felt that LVG was done around February of his first season, I feel that Mourinho and Ancelotti are also done or close to be done.
Very true. We can go on about Jose being tactically dull, but at the moment, the players on more than one occasion don't look capable of doing the fundamental basics of football correctly. You can't really blame him for that, they're all top level professionals.
It's true some of them under achieved, but it was usually for 1 or 2 seasons followed by massive success. Early 2000s we struggled, but then went on to win 4 titles in a row. Same with the late 2000s when Rooney and Ronaldo were developing, we went on to reach 3 out of 4 CL finals.
When you're default way of playing is to not press, and you're feeling demotivated in general and there is a general lack of proactive leadership on and off the pitch .. how are you going to expect 11 men to galvanise each other and collectively organise an effective press?
Pressing needs to be worked on and come from the coaches first and foremost. Yeah the result can spark people into just running like mad men and going for it .. but does this team look like it's super motivated to run through walls for this manager? Personally think none of our managers have earnt the full backing of the players and you could see exactly why they eventually lost the players through stupid decision making and isolating the wrong players and playing dumb mind games in terms of selection and showing favouritism to players who didn't merit it.
If our manager was blameless I would understand your OP - but he's not. He has actually been the prime candidate for demotivating a lot of these players IMO. Just like Moyes and LVG.. all surly and stubborn characters who are all egotists.
jesus wept...If we're not the draw we think we are, then what are we exactly?
Mou has made many allusions to the players having to take responsibility when out on the pitch. He has been scathing of Shaw’s lack of autonomy and made a comment after Leicester about not being able to stop the game for two minutes to give them a team talk. He has also talked about immaturity within the team. I’ve thought it for a long while – we have some seriously thick players.
Spurs are London based, moving into a new stadium, upwardly mobile and generally don’t flog their best players anymore unless silly money is being offered.
It’s pure arrogance to suggest we can just waltz in and take whoever we want.
They were all queuing up when we needed to replace Ferguson...