It was only a matter of time before our incessant adherence to playing it out of the back bit us in the ass

[calodo2003]

Why are we insisting on always playing it short out of the back? It’s has become so predictable & we don’t necessarily have the skill to pull it off consistently under intense pressure. Why put our players under such pressure?

 

[captain666]

Why are we insisting on always playing it short out of the back? It’s has become so predictable & we don’t necessarily have the skill to pull it off consistently under intense pressure. Why put our players under such pressure?

I don't know why we persist in trying to play out from the back when we haven't got players competent enough to even get to the halfway line!

 

[Woodzy]

The thread title hurts my head.

 

[Godfather]

It's doing my head in. Go long and for the second ball. It is so stupid with the CM at our disposal to try and play it out from the back when especially Fred and McT aren't comfortable when pressed at all.

 

[calodo2003]

The thread title hurts my head.

Our cocking it up out of the back hurts our eyes. And hardware chances.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It's doing my head in. Go long and for the second ball. It is so stupid with the CM at our disposal to try and play it out from the back when especially Fred and McT aren't comfortable when pressed at all.

So who do you want challenging for the long ball

 

[Vidyoyo]

I sense we don't have the men in the midfield to win punted long balls. Perhaps Cavani if he's playing but definitely not Fred, Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, etc. Playing it short seems like the best alternative. The best of a bad bunch, if you will.

 

[Godfather]

So who do you want challenging for the long ball

Doesn't matter as long as we are there for the second ball. Absolutely no need to win it as long as you put enough pressure on the defender.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Doesn't matter as long as we are there for the second ball. Absolutely no need to win it as long as you put enough pressure on the defender.

That’s not going to work for long when defenders realise rashford don’t jump and James and Greenwood are no arial masters. You can’t just kick the ball away knowing out forwards won’t can’t even challenge for it

 

[Berbasbullet]

Sack Ole, sign Fellaini.

 

[Godfather]

That’s not going to work for long when defenders realise rashford don’t jump and James and Greenwood are no arial masters. You can’t just kick the ball away knowing out forwards won’t can’t even challenge for it

Well there's no reason why they wouldn't even challenge for it is there? Don't need to be an aerial monster to put pressure on a defender so he can't control his header properly. Better than losing the ball 16 yards in front of your own goal because your CMs can't control or pass a football.

 

[calodo2003]

I sense we don't have the men in the midfield to win punted long balls. Perhaps Cavani if he's playing but definitely not Fred, Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, etc. Playing it short seems like the best alternative. The best of a bad bunch, if you will.

Have to somewhat disagree. This playing out of the back has only become a recent phenomena prompted by the change in the goal kick law. It’s somewhat of a fad. We had never done so with such predictability in the past with arguably worse players on the pitch to which to punt / throw. Football had existed for a millennia with long distribution, why have we jumped so fully into the deep end with the short distribution?
It’s seemed like Russian roulette for ages, we finally found the chambered bullet with the Fred back pass abortion.

 

[SATA]

If Pogba is there, just give it to him. He is the only one who can protect the ball under pressure and open up the play. Else just the old fashioned long punt down the pitch to the forwards will do

 

[mu4c_20le]

Easy to say when things go wrong. Inability to comfortably play out from the back is ultimately what cost Smalling his job here. It is now considered an essential and basic part of the modern game.

 

[DWelbz19]

Playing out from the back is so vogue. But our RB, two defensive midfielders, and even our CBs are a bit shitty under the press, which makes it totally redundant.

The only player in that back 6 you feel comfortable with the ball at their feet is Luke Shaw. Night and day comparison to say, Wan Bissaka and Fred who rarely look comfortable receiving the ball when playing out the back.

 

[AgentSmith]

‘We’re shite at playing out from the back’

*inserts thread into thesaurus*

‘It was only a matter of time before our incessant adherence to playing it out of the back bit us in the ass’

*OP nods vigorously*

 

[Rossa]

United's adherence to playing out from the back differs little from the other top teams in the league. City are masters of playing out from the back. Ederson is arguably the best goalie in the world with his feet; their centre backs are technically very sound, and they have adopted and perfected a midfield that mixes it up and drops deep. They are so good at it that most teams have given up on pressing them. The other teams struggle more. Chelsea are just as resolute, if not more so, than United at playing out from the back, and they struggle as much, if not more so than United do. However, as the OP states, our defenders in particular look like they play with rubber boots the way the ball bounces across the pitch slower than a drunk tortoise.

Personally, as if anyone gives a feck, I don't much care for playing out from the back. If there is little press, then it makes sense, but it also stretches the team and puts the team in a more defensive position. If you can lure the opposition up, then hit it long and make sure you win the second ball, you have put the opposition in a difficult position. Playing it slow from behind has little in tactical advantage.

 

[Godfather]

Easy to say when things go wrong. Inability to comfortably play out from the back is ultimately what cost Smalling his job here. It is now considered an essential and basic part of the modern game.

Tell that McFred that shit their pants when pressed. Fred worse so than McT. You need defenders and CM that are really comfortable with the ball at their feet to play it out properly. Shaw's the only one that looks comfortable even under pressure. Everyone else becomes hectic.

 

[Infra-red]

I can only assume that Ole/Carrick/McKenna saw City doing it on MOTD and thought they'd give it a go.

It is genuinely painful to watch - we are laughably bad at it.

 

[Harold_Giles]

If our goalkeeper and defenders would be hoofing the ball up field at every chance, we'd have a thread about why we don't play it out from the back.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Because a club that self proclaims as biggest in the world should expect its players to be able to pass and control the ball in tight spaces and work their way to an attack. All big clubs do.

If you could measure the ratio of "big club" to "least performance based run" club, we'd probably be at the top.

 

[RUCK4444]

Why are we insisting on always playing it short out of the back? It’s has become so predictable & we don’t necessarily have the skill to pull it off consistently under intense pressure. Why put our players under such pressure?

Nice long title.

I agree we aren't polished at it, however, it is the proper way to play football in this era. If people are unhappy with Ole's football now then it would be a lot worse if we didn't try building from the back.

It's how the top teams play, it's something we've neglected under previous management and it's one of the boxes I wanted ticked before Ole arrived, so I'm happy he's implementing this.

It's something that takes long term coaching and the right players, we have neither really when you count Fred as one of the key players involved in it.

 

[calodo2003]

United's adherence to playing out from the back differs little from the other top teams in the league. City are masters of playing out from the back. Ederson is arguably the best goalie in the world with his feet; their centre backs are technically very sound, and they have adopted and perfected a midfield that mixes it up and drops deep. They are so good at it that most teams have given up on pressing them. The other teams struggle more. Chelsea are just as resolute, if not more so, than United at playing out from the back, and they struggle as much, if not more so than United do. However, as the OP states, our defenders in particular look like they play with rubber boots the way the ball bounces across the pitch slower than a drunk tortoise.

Personally, as if anyone gives a feck, I don't much care for playing out from the back. If there is little press, then it makes sense, but it also stretches the team and puts the team in a more defensive position. If you can lure the opposition up, then hit it long and make sure you win the second ball, you have put the opposition in a difficult position. Playing it slow from behind has little in tactical advantage.

Exactly. It invites pressure unnecessarily.

Look at one of our best goals recently, that long distribution from Henderson via his throw. Obviously such a break cannot easily happen from a static restart, but we could bypass that first line of pressure with a longer ball to our midfield / forwards & alleviate pressure that comes with a short goal kick.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

All modern teams play out from the back that's not the issue. The problem is we lack players comfortable at not only receiving the ball but also playing out of the press and passing quickly between the lines into our front men. In short, the theory is sound, the execution is often lacking and will be until we find the next Carrick etc.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I can only assume that Ole/Carrick/McKenna saw City doing it on MOTD and thought they'd give it a go.

It is genuinely painful to watch - we are laughably bad at it.

Yep that’s it. Obviously

 

[calodo2003]

Nice long title.

I agree we aren't polished at it, however, it is the proper way to play football in this era. If people are unhappy with Ole's football now then it would be a lot worse if we didn't try building from the back.

It's how the top teams play, it's something we've neglected under previous management and it's one of the boxes I wanted ticked before Ole arrived, so I'm happy he's implementing this.

It's something that takes long term coaching and the right players, we have neither really when you count Fred as one of the key players involved in it.

You make salient points. But we should have other arrows in our quiver besides a short goal kick or a short roll out.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't think a general policy of playing out from the back is the issue, it is having the match awareness to understand when we shouldn't be.

You can't have an idea of constantly punting out from the back anymore than slavishly adhering to playing short. What would the result of that be? We have no aerial targets, we have few people running beyond the opposition, you simply concede possession far too often to make this work.

Winning second balls is far more likely if you have natural targets for the first ball, if the CB can gather it on his chest or the forwards do not compete then it is fairly trivial for the opposition at this level to win the majority of long balls.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Well there's no reason why they wouldn't even challenge for it is there? Don't need to be an aerial monster to put pressure on a defender so he can't control his header properly. Better than losing the ball 16 yards in front of your own goal because your CMs can't control or pass a football.

What I mean is how many challenges do you think our forwards will win? If it’s 0 or 1 out of ten then then the other forwards will stop making the runs behind because they know it’s pointless, defenders will click on and just hover in front of the ball making protecting the second ball so much easier, you can’t continually kick it long when you have almost zero chance of winning every aerial ball, martial could win a few I suppose if he could be arsed to move for them.

 

[ghaliboy]

Maguire has developed a four or five piece catalogue of passing it to guys under pressure near goals and us conceding with him walking off up the field going "nah not my fault m8".

Personally I don't like playing out from the back. I would much rather it just being part of what our backline produces in terms of a collective chemistry.

 

[calodo2003]

I don't think a general policy of playing out from the back is the issue, it is having the match awareness to understand when we shouldn't be.

You can't have an idea of constantly punting out from the back anymore than slavishly adhering to playing short. What would the result of that be? We have no aerial targets, we have few people running beyond the opposition, you simply concede possession far too often to make this work.

Winning second balls is far more likely if you have natural targets for the first ball, if the CB can gather it on his chest or the forwards do not compete then it is fairly trivial for the opposition at this level to win the majority of long balls.

It’s funny, long punts were woven into the game for decades. It just seems we now have gone completely in the other direction & we signal predictability in this regard as it is the vogue thing to do recently. It’s like the tiki taka shit we have constantly tried for years that usually doesn’t pan out. A bit more diversity would perhaps help us until we have the skill set to consistently play out of the back well.

 

[Marwood]

For staters all teams do it, some a lot more than us. Not everything has to be characterised as a problem specific to United.

Secondly I think our best ball players(minus AWB) are at the back and they're generally very good at it.

 

[Tarrou]

I like that we play it out from the back

I just hate that we persist in doing it in when we're having a bit of a dodgy period and the opposition senses it and is pressing like mad

Just fecking launch it!

 

[Leftback99]

People would be straight to the 'we're awfully coached' thread if we didn't.

I'm not a fan of it but it's not going away until someone has success with old school long ball target men again and others follow.

It comes down to players, the same with our lack of ability to jeep the ball in midfield. Maguire and Shaw and very good at it, we rarely get caught on the left. It doesn't work however with AWB, Fred and McTominay who are poor in possession. Matic and Pogba aren't exactly pass and move players either.

 

[Abraxas]

It’s funny, long punts were woven into the game for decades. It just seems we now have gone completely in the other direction & we signal predictability in this regard as it is the vogue thing to do recently. It’s like the tiki taka shit we have constantly tried for years that usually doesn’t pan out. A bit more diversity would perhaps help us until we have the skill set to consistently play out of the back well.

Possibly, but the other side is maybe that "diversity" is just reasoned to be giving the ball away far more often than not and they'd rather risk the odd sloppy goal then concede possession every game to an opposition that are often comfortable on the ball, even the poorer sides.

It's possibly also to do with the type of footballers that are produced, playing long more often makes sense if you have players suited to it and not many teams have that anymore.

I think it just comes down to decision making. If the long ball is on or it's dangerous to play short then we should be taking the right options but in general the idea of the keeper playing short and the centre backs looking to work it through midfield is only logical to try and get our forwards on the ball to feet, or played into space where we hope their skill can cause the opposition problems. It's not an attack that even competes in the opposition box nevermind to hopeful punts.

 

[Hoof the ball]

There are teams with lesser technical players in world football that pass out of a press better than we do.

First you must answer the question as to why lesser teams in various leagues are able to accomplish with poorer personnel what we can't with greater personnel.

"Better players" is an easy way out of an explanation to deeper internal reasons.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You have to keep at it. The problem is that we don't seem to be particularly great. Like with Chelsea you can see how they're very comfortable at it. I like that are encouraging it as all teams have to be able to but I don't see the team looking excellent at it. Not sure why.

 

[RUCK4444]

You make salient points. But we should have other arrows in our quiver besides a short goal kick or a short roll out.

Well there's only really two options, play out from the back or long ball football. The latter shouldn't necessarily be looked down upon but if your hoofing the ball to Martial who can't be arsed to run then you will find the ball coming back at you time and again.

You can build your attacks and vary them when playing out from the back. Likewise the risk of playing this way (by drawing pressure onto you) is actually part of the approach, you want to draw the opponent out in order to create gaps behind them, then you need the players to play it out effectively.

I actually think we are getting much better at it than we have been for a very long time, obviously excluding the Fred horror show at Leicester. We play that way consistently and haven't really paid the price since very early on in the season IIRC, which is pretty good considering physicality and speed of this league.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

city were getting caught out for years occasionally. you get something back from doing it but until you get very good you will get caught out every now and again. i wouldnt say it has cost us dearly this season, not like it has with arsenal. fred in general is a disaster back to goal ever since mourinho days.

 

[calodo2003]

Possibly, but the other side is maybe that "diversity" is just reasoned to be giving the ball away far more often than not and they'd rather risk the odd sloppy goal then concede possession every game to an opposition that are often comfortable on the ball, even the poorer sides.

It's possibly also to do with the type of footballers that are produced, playing long more often makes sense if you have players suited to it and not many teams have that anymore.

I think it just comes down to decision making. If the long ball is on or it's dangerous to play short then we should be taking the right options but in general the idea of the keeper playing short and the centre backs looking to work it through midfield is only logical to try and get our forwards on the ball to feet, or played into space where we hope their skill can cause the opposition problems. It's not an attack that even competes in the opposition box nevermind to hopeful punts.

To me it smacks of a quality young starting pitcher in baseball (advance apologies to those who aren’t knowledgeable or keen about baseball, but I think y’all will get this). It’s somewhat typical for a young starter with quality pitches to have some initial success against fellow pros. However, if that young starter maintains in the future with the same exact pitches with which he faced opponents, he quickly ‘gets found out’ & is no longer quality. Getting found out by opponents is as easy as watching tape on the starter & finding tendencies & his predictability.

I just hope this is not the case with us in the coming months, being found out & our predictability further damaging the season.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

There are teams with lesser technical players in world football that pass out of a press better than we do.

First you must answer the question as to why lesser teams in various leagues are able to accomplish with poorer personnel what we can't with greater personnel.

"Better players" is an easy way out of an explanation to deeper internal reasons.

Bingo!!