It's improved tempo that did it!

Sultan

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It could well be mentality issues. Probably the thinking process is we are too good for most of our opponents and one of our superstars will gift us the game. They then quickly realise it's not the case and need to work to get a result. We do tend to see a more focused team against stronger teams (PSG, City, Liverpool, Chelsea)
 

Bastian

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It was playing a team that was wide open and having a crowd that pushed them on. We'll know a lot better over the next few matches whether there is a proper plan in place going forward.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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When did this exact bunch of players last get a proper long training session? Ronaldo and Varane weren't around for preseason, the English players went to the finals of Euros and returned late, Sancho took a longer break, Rashford just got back, Maguire got injured. You can't underestimate fatigue, both mental and physical to play with that kind of tempo twice a week.
 

el_loco_bielsa

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We didn't win that game, Atalanta lost it. They were 2-0 up away from home and in control, but half time came and their lack of quality, composure and experience showed. They wanted to see the game out and let us have the ball - no team starts games like that, which is why we never start on the front foot. They went from zero pressure/expectation at the start of the game, to favourites at half time, which gave us the initiative.

We shouldn't be in this situation. We shat the bed first half, they shat it second half. Sure we made some changes and played better, but Atalanta let it happen.
There is a lot of truth to this. Atalanta lost their heads, shape, composure, discipline completely in the second half. It was a mixture of being overwhelmed by the crowd noise, occasion, fast tempo, first goal - they basically stopped playing for a good half an hour.

The fact they had their 3 first choice defenders all out and 3 kids drafted in as replacements after demiral limped off at half time also had a huge bearing on the second half.

As you say, a side with superior players including more experienced defenders may have conceded but then had the composure to regain some measure of the control they displayed in the first half.
 

the_cliff

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We didn't win that game, Atalanta lost it. They were 2-0 up away from home and in control, but half time came and their lack of quality, composure and experience showed. They wanted to see the game out and let us have the ball - no team starts games like that, which is why we never start on the front foot. They went from zero pressure/expectation at the start of the game, to favourites at half time, which gave us the initiative.

We shouldn't be in this situation. We shat the bed first half, they shat it second half. Sure we made some changes and played better, but Atalanta let it happen.
Agree with this, I also remember a point in time when 4 Atalanta players were booked in the space of 5 minutes, you knew at that point that it's just a matter of time. If any fans expect there to be a turning point after that game I wouldn't get your hopes up, we had exactly the same problems we usually have, i.e Slow start, Disorganised press, Bruno isolated, Midfield outnumbered etc. Atalanta also had 4-5 starting 11 players out and the injury to Demiral really helped us out.
 

Denis79

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Whatever the reason last night was top notch entertainment! Games like that are few and far between.
 

Foxbatt

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High tempo means quick passing and also moving the ball quickly. Not sprinting with the ball. We don't do that. We didn't even do it much in the second half.
Eventually world class players are going to make a difference.
 
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Adrenaline is hell of a drug. Oh, and our world-class players deciding to start playing for their CL lives in the 2nd half helped too. Ronaldo is not getting knocked out of the Champions League that easily, boys. I wouldn't read a whole lot more into that. We were mediocre as usual in the 1st half.
Watching the game last night, the first half was not good! But watching the highlights today... we created so many chances in the first half, it's insane we didn't have a couple of goals. And given that Maguire was at fault for two avoidable goals.

Not defending the first half at all, but shows the margins are so tight in football.
 

Ali Dia

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Injuries to their best players. They tired. Inexperienced team. Their best defender off at half time. It was a perfect storm. The real question is are we going to use this game as a platform or are we going to go into the weekend walking around again? I just want to see some genuine fight and pride from the off. If we do that we can match any team.
 

BusbyMalone

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I think the main turning point was the fact that we seemed to have realized that we were up against a very average team. I was saying this in the matchday thread, but Atlanta was not good. This wasn't a Villarreal situation, who were genuinely excellent when we played them, this was a situation where we conceded two goals out of nowhere really. Not to say that we were good in the first half, but the second we started to apply a little pressure, Atlanta collapsed. They are bang average (or they were last night anyway) and, thankfully, we exploited that.

That's why I think some on here are not getting ahead of themselves. It could be construed as being a "party pooper" but it's understandable. In the moment it's obviously great to watch ( i certainly enjoyed the comeback last night), but when it all settles down you realize that we had to rely on another comeback, at home, against a painfully mediocre side. It's a great result and one that we needed, but it's really not good enough in the grand scheme of things.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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We've had many comebacks with Ole but had many with Jose.

They are fun and exciting but it mainly comes from the players throwing caution to the wind and just going for it.

Top managers and top teams brush aside Villa, Southampton, wolves and inferior CL teams.

We almost never start well. Everton last season we did and City I guess. This needs to stop.
 

RUCK4444

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Watching the game last night, the first half was not good! But watching the highlights today... we created so many chances in the first half, it's insane we didn't have a couple of goals. And given that Maguire was at fault for two avoidable goals.

Not defending the first half at all, but shows the margins are so tight in football.
I said this last night and stick by it, we weren’t THAT bad first half.

Defensively yes, there was also at times a disconnect between midfield and the forwards but we still cut them open and could have gone in winning the game at half time, we had better chances than them and was nowhere near as bad as many claimed at half time.

Don’t get me wrong, it was bad, just nowhere near as bad as some including Scholes made out at full time.
 

OleTheGreat

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Last night, post the slow-moving, lackadaisical first half, the team came back with a much improvped tempo in the second, and Atalanta were clearly not ready or able to cope with the fast, often one touch interaction between United players, so much so, that they had to concede 3 yellows in the span of 5 minutes to stop our forwards. Ultimately, they caved in.

For me, the question is why can't we keep up this tempo consistently in all our games. Particularly when this is Ole's main objective too?
The problem is we all come out doing more when our backs are against the wall. Ole isn't demanding a lot from our players, he just thinks that they are capable and keeps saying that. I think he needs to get on the touchline more and be more proactive during the 90 mins instead of sitting up in the stands and watching the game from afar. We cannot play fearless football until we are in a position where we have nothing to lose anymore because under pressure we cave.
 

Lash

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During Covid, I actually forgot how massive attacking the Stretford end second half is. It 100% has that sucking the ball into the net feeling. Our support has been fecking superb this year and that singing section has been a revelation.
 

Van Piorsing

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Improved tempo ? I can agree but let's be honest, Atalanta isn't exactly a strongest team to play against and they surprisingly scored two. If we had required coherence throughout entire game this would be won by three goals lead.

We simply cannot sustain intensity for longer because sooner or later McFred midfield is disrupted by injuries and other factors and we're forced to play Matić & Pogba there who definitely not looking like playing whole season in full tempo. Donny ? Solskjaer doesn't even trust him...

I'll try and be positive by saying yesterday's game is somekind of basis to be build upon, even with quality jump of our upcoming opponents in comparison to Atalanta.
 

philipos

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After about 15 minutes of the 2nd half I said to the person sitting next to me that the instruction at half time must have been "do everything quicker" - it was obvious that the tempo was much quicker than in the 1st half. Let's not kid ourselves that just because we had a few chances in the 1st half, we'd played OK - the view all around me in the ground at half time was that we'd been awful.
 

#07

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United should have gone in at half time ahead:

  • Bruno puts Fred in, Fred should score.
  • Bruno puts Rashford in behind, Rashford takes too long to shoot and gets tackled. Had he scored VAR would've ruled him onside.
  • Bruno puts Rashford in behind again, Rashford smashes the bar.
There was nothing that wrong with our first half performance...

...apart from our defending (and finishing).

It should have been 3-2 at half time. We did not play badly in the first half.

If you can make any critcism of United in the first half its that, besides the garbage defending, our lines were too far apart and that led us to get caught on defensive transitions. However, even that critcism is overblown. Yes Marcus and Mason were committed to going forward but they did work back as well.

The approach didn't change that massively at half time. We just finished better (and not that much better cos Ronaldo should've scored from Bruno's through ball, and Bruno himself should've scored).
 

devips

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Apart from the tempo which needs to be fast and consistent from now on, what we need urgently is for Ole to repair his shambles of a defence. We concede every time we go out on the field. This is just not acceptable. Ole should be more brave, and re-organise the defence pronto.
 

Hoof the ball

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It's Atalanta, isn't it? In almost exactly the same way that it's Leeds, right?

We face these wide open teams with a high line and attacking mentality and we create a ton of chances, only to think that it's something we did different. Guarantee you......it's not.

As soon as we play another team that takes defensive shape seriously and doesn't have five first-teamer's missing, then it'll be back to how we see it most weeks. Why? Because 70% of the time we don't play teams like Atalanta.
 

Teja

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I also thought they were a bit naive with their tactics. They hardly wasted time and got on with the game which played into our hands.
Italian Leeds etc. They could've easily slowed the tempo down and killed the crowd.

Scholes was right, a team like Pool would've sat back at 2-0 and picked us apart on the counter.
 

GBBQ

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I'll try and be positive by saying yesterday's game is somekind of basis to be build upon, even with quality jump of our upcoming opponents in comparison to Atalanta
Its definitely better to be facing Liverpool on the back of a comeback win versus a humiliating loss for sure. Whether that's enough to carry us over the line with a much needed win, I don't know. We'll be defensive and gamble on a late bit of magic from Ronaldo or Bruno to win it.
 

Grande

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I agree with the OP that the tempo of the ball was mych higher for most of the second hal, particularily the firat twenty minutes of it. It was one-touch, two-touch pass and move.
Firat half the passing was slow and cumbersome. This along with their high press and out imprecise passes, which will tend to dictate the speed we dare play with. Particularily after a bad loss.
 

Van Piorsing

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Its definitely better to be facing Liverpool on the back of a comeback win versus a humiliating loss for sure. Whether that's enough to carry us over the line with a much needed win, I don't know. We'll be defensive and gamble on a late bit of magic from Ronaldo or Bruno to win it.
With Rashford & Cavani returning perhaps there will be enough magic to do something, just need to start with defensively aware lineup and sting the opponent in some timely manner.
 

noodlehair

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Thought it had a lot to do with Atalanta inviting pressure a bit more, but also second half we didn't have all of our forwards standing in a line completely disconnected from the rest of the team as if they were pretending to be the opposition's back 4.

Second half fernandes was further back, Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford etc. we're actually tracking back or connecting with the midfield players. Pogba also made a difference when he came on.

I don't think it solved anything as a lot of it was situational and wouldn't work in any other game or as a general plan
 

largelyworried

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Watching the game last night, the first half was not good! But watching the highlights today... we created so many chances in the first half, it's insane we didn't have a couple of goals. And given that Maguire was at fault for two avoidable goals.

Not defending the first half at all, but shows the margins are so tight in football.
Our problem isn't with creating chances this season - only Liverpool have scored more goals than us in the league after all - our problem is with controlling games. Good teams have spells where they hog the ball and just live in the opposition half for extended spells, dominating proceedings with smart possession and a quick press. Partly to create chances, but partly to starve the opposition of the chance to counterattack and to stop them exerting their own pressure.

We seem unable to do it this season. Its just wide open in every match. We cut through them, they cut through us. Exciting, but not viable over a 50+ game season. Last night highlighted our weaknesses as much as our attacking strengths.
 

Smores

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They were tired and a bit fearful given they were a second string, you can't go at a team like that most of the time.

Just show some more effort and passion isn't how football works. That said it was positive and enjoyable to see we still had that mentality if needed. We should have an effective way of playing that doesn't require such an effort.
 

Sultan

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I don't think it solved anything as a lot of it was situational and wouldn't work in any other game or as a general plan
I think Bruno should be playing 10/15 meters deeper than he normally plays which would alleviate our midfield issues to an extent. Basically, slightly ahead, or in partnership with Pogba. One of Matic, McTominay or Fred should keep discipline. Bruno has been too close to the strikers or occasionally playing even further up than the strikers most of the season. This then allows the opposition to easily play around our midfielders due to the lack of numbers and space afforded.

Strikers not pressing is another problem making opposition defenders seem like prime Pirlo's. Soon as Cavani comes on he ramps up the crowd noise and changes the mindset of the others into working harder due to his example of pressing. Most good teams play from the back and there's nothing more they hate than being pressed.
 

Tom Van Persie

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During Covid, I actually forgot how massive attacking the Stretford end second half is. It 100% has that sucking the ball into the net feeling. Our support has been fecking superb this year and that singing section has been a revelation.
Agreed. Atmosphere has been unreal. Shame our match going fans get so much shit on here and twitter.
 

noodlehair

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I think Bruno should be playing 10/15 meters deeper than he normally plays which would alleviate our midfield issues to an extent. Basically, slightly ahead, or in partnership with Pogba. One of Matic, McTominay or Fred should keep discipline. Bruno has been too close to the strikers or occasionally playing even further up than the strikers most of the season. This then allows the opposition to easily play around our midfielders due to the lack of numbers and space afforded.

Strikers not pressing is another problem making opposition defenders seem like prime Pirlo's. Soon as Cavani comes on he ramps up the crowd noise and changes the mindset of the others into working harder due to his example of pressing. Most good teams play from the back and there's nothing more they hate than being pressed.
Yep but he's playing there because that's where Ole wants him to play, as demonstrated by Ole saying it was 4-2-4 before the game.

Makes no sense to me as two of the biggest things Bruno gives us is his playmaking/final ball ability and threat at shooting from range. When he's up front it takes away from that and we don't need him there as he isn't doing anything Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood etc. can't.

Then of course the problem you alluded to. Don't usually pay much attention to post match analysis but the clips BT were using last night was really highlighting the problem. Fred/McTominay get the ball, have no choice but to either go backwards or lump a hopeful ball over the top since all our forwards are playing right up against the opposition back four...and if they do the latter and our forwards don't get to it, they are immediately hopelessly outnumbered on the counter. As Scholes said, even he wouldn't be able to look any use in that system.
 

Lentwood

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I think the players also threw caution to the wind and just started playing football. We can look cautious, timid and nervy at times, but when you're 0-2 down with nothing to lose, can ironically be easier to play
 

lsd

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It's the same as last year really when we won so many Matches coming from behind.

Go a goal or two down and whatever tactics we came in with go out the window and we have to attack more.

There nothing else to that and while we have players that can do it more often than not it does not reflect well on the manager or coaching.
 

passing-wind

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Only efficient teams in possession are able to control the tempo. This United side don't move well in enough in possession. The game last night was circumspect to the situation of being 2-0 down I don't think any more analysis can be draw outside of that description. The way the team starts games is what the manager and coaching staff have implemented all week, so the consistent poor starts to games is actually a bad reflection on Solskjaer's / Carrick / McKenna inadequate preparation. Yes the team won last night but this approach is not sustainable.

Almost certain that the game against Liverpool on Sunday will be a very conservative approach. Double pivot midfield and absorbing pressure. I actually feel this is Solskjaer's best tactical aspect because it's the only time he's shown an identity with the team. Ole doesn't have the managerial tendencies to make this team dangerous in possession. Realistically such a level is outside of himself but he should stick to his strengths and just be a counter attacking tactician.
 

USREDEVIL

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Adrenaline and nothing to lose-attitude, it's nothing to do with tactics. As mentioned in another thread, the tactics were out the window and adrenaline mixed with superior ability helped us win this game. On top of that, English teams are much, much fitter than Italian teams over 90 minutes.
Atalanta go from blitz to defending with lower blocks protecting the lead, it's the receipe for trouble. They were tired and injury-ridden, the writing was on the wall from the first second.
That's what i saw. Second half seemed like, feck it, just go at them and also pressing from Ronaldo and others. The combo seemed to pull Atalanta apart and they were on their heels which only exacerbated what we were doing. Then they started to tire and foul us.
 

Lash

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Agreed. Atmosphere has been unreal. Shame our match going fans get so much shit on here and twitter.
I haven't been able to go yet, but couple of my mates have and said it's been incredible. Even through the TV yesterday, when the crowd got up, it was palpable.
 

BigBebe

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High tempo requires quick passing and aggressive pressing.

We only have Fred in the midfield who can do the quick passing. Maguire, AWB, Pogba, Matic, McTominay, Greenwood, Rashford don't really play that way. Put simply we have too many players schooled in counter attack who like to get the ball out of their feet and run with it.
I thought that that was the whole reason that we signed Donny, to quicken up our midfield play. Clearly not.

Ole said 4 -2 -4. Don't we always play like that? Bruno very often plays too far forwards or just randomly all over the pitch. That was OK last season when we didn't have Ronaldo and a lot of the time didn't have Pogba but now I think having Bruno further back to more consistently receive and distribute the ball will work better for us.
 

Mart1974

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Last night, post the slow-moving, lackadaisical first half, the team came back with a much improvped tempo in the second, and Atalanta were clearly not ready or able to cope with the fast, often one touch interaction between United players, so much so, that they had to concede 3 yellows in the span of 5 minutes to stop our forwards. Ultimately, they caved in.

For me, the question is why can't we keep up this tempo consistently in all our games. Particularly when this is Ole's main objective too?
Spot on, there was a a marked improvement in speed of passing through to the 1st goal and I thought it was one of the best team goals we scored this season. That tempo led to a spate of yellow cards for Atlanta and the 2nd goal. After that we slowed down a bit and I wasn't sure we would get a 3rd.