Its not supposed to be like this...

McGrathsipan

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You pay to watch the game. The club uses your viewership and everyone's, to generate sponsorship deals. The more eyeballs on the game, the larger the sponsorship money they can command. Likewise, if you have more eyeballs on your team, you can also justify higher percentages of TV rights money. Teams now are selling a brand/product and within that is the number of eyeballs and interactions they get from fans.

I mean, isn't it well known that Woodward spoke glowingly about Twitter impressions when reporting to shareholders?
We pay! Thats the fundamental isnt it. I would say your train of thought is also valid though, but fundamentally we are also customers too.
 

McGrathsipan

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I know, but how much does the average (I stress average) fan spend per annum at MUFC?
See this is the dark arts of accounting. How do you quantify indirect contribution?

The business has multiple streams of revenues - fine, but they are all based on whats on the pitch in theory. Practice is very different.
 

Stacks

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Football is gone beyond the point of no return in my opinion.

Clubs are gone - replaced by business. Fans are customers. Owners dont care, they just take.
Racism and abuse - rampant and dominant. Taking knees and Social media boycotts get more headlines
VAR - the absolute car crash that is ruining the game as a spectacle
FIFA and Corruption - fecking Qatar world cups
Power - the big (clubs) businesses' in the "game" attempt to create a cartel and ram a big feck you to their customers (formerly known as fans).

This is a new low. The game and everything about it is toxic and sickening. Its not meant to be like this.
There is no joy in this anymore. No enjoyment, no meaning to it. Everyone is talking about anything other than what's on the pitch.
Is there any way back from here? Its sunk so low into the abyss of toxicity!
Its mainly because fans aren't there. Hardly any of this stuff gets discussed throughout the season and fans still attend in record numbers so they seem content enough. Its not like the NBA where viewership is actually down. People just get on with it normally
 

Wolf1992

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I agree with this point but its current context bothers me because I see more and more people say that when I have seen them glorify Football business, they glorified the commercialization of clubs like United, looked down on smaller/poorer clubs, looked down on patrons, looked down on poorer leagues, on leagues built grass root football and producing players. But now that the big clubs created a world that they can't sustain themselves, a world that is built for financial investors, fans complain about things they bragged about not so long ago.
This.

Funny to see people criticizing oil clubs for ruining football, then proceed to make fun of poorer leagues cause those leagues don't have the money to buy quality players, and depend on developing local/youth talent to sell in order to survive economically.

People criticize Bayern for taking good players from other Bundesliga teams at a cheap/reasonable prize, then complain about City buying expensive players to win EPL and CL.
 

kouroux

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Football is gone beyond the point of no return in my opinion.

Clubs are gone - replaced by business. Fans are customers. Owners dont care, they just take.
Racism and abuse - rampant and dominant. Taking knees and Social media boycotts get more headlines
VAR - the absolute car crash that is ruining the game as a spectacle
FIFA and Corruption - fecking Qatar world cups
Power - the big (clubs) businesses' in the "game" attempt to create a cartel and ram a big feck you to their customers (formerly known as fans).

This is a new low. The game and everything about it is toxic and sickening. Its not meant to be like this.
There is no joy in this anymore. No enjoyment, no meaning to it. Everyone is talking about anything other than what's on the pitch.
Is there any way back from here? Its sunk so low into the abyss of toxicity!
It looks terrible indeed. When it comes to football, the most joy I get out of it is when I play it with my friends. That's how bad it's been watching it
 

The Boy

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Clubs are gone - replaced by business. Fans are customers. Owners dont care, they just take.
I have a very different perception of this, yes we are owned by a multimillionaire, but he is a fan (I went to school with him!) he has pumped many millions of own money into the club. We have a great manager and Director of football. There is a really positive feeling around the club, even when we don't score! Our owner invested heavily in a new stadium and has overseen the development of worldclass training and youth facilities.

For me I agree about Qatar and the ESL was pure idiocy, but it didn't happen. Brighton are doing better than ever before and are achieving things I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I think all football fans that the owners of big 6 and indeed most clubs are only in it for themselves, but like I said the ESL did not happen and now probably wont for at least a decade. I am loving football at the moment.
 

McGrathsipan

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OP, You forgot about the worst problem in football, worse than anything you listed... VAR.
VAR is there mate.
What I forgot is to give an honourable mention to men of weakness that dive and cheat and over react. You know the Neymars and Sons.
 

Hammondo

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This has been true for a long time though, probably not far off of 2 decades.
 

McGrathsipan

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I have a very different perception of this, yes we are owned by a multimillionaire, but he is a fan (I went to school with him!) he has pumped many millions of own money into the club. We have a great manager and Director of football. There is a really positive feeling around the club, even when we don't score! Our owner invested heavily in a new stadium and has overseen the development of worldclass training and youth facilities.

For me I agree about Qatar and the ESL was pure idiocy, but it didn't happen. Brighton are doing better than ever before and are achieving things I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I think all football fans that the owners of big 6 and indeed most clubs are only in it for themselves, but like I said the ESL did not happen and now probably wont for at least a decade. I am loving football at the moment.
You're experience is based on your club probably still being a club and good for you.
I like Brighton. Been there loads of times and always seems like good vibes.

My perception when you take allegiance away etc is that last weekend one of the traditional biggest games in the world was not able to go ahead because fans broke into the stadium and blockaded the hotel. Just consider that on its own from a fan of the sport point of view. Its mind-blowing.
Qatar world cups at Christmas? Really?

It's a circus
 

largelyworried

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I must confess I find football hard to like at the moment. I think covid has made things a lot harder. Part of football is the social aspect of it. I have a lot of friends I only see on matchday, whether at the ground or in the pub. I've been to many games over the years where the match was boring as hell, but I had a great time with my friends before or after the game. I really long for one of those days where I watch a match with some mates and then spend a lazy couple of hours in the pub afterwards talking about what we just saw.

Over the last year that's gone, and at the same time its been replaced with a completely insane number of games on the telly. There's a game on practically every day at the moment. It makes me feel completely disconnected. Then we have all the stuff mentioned above - the rise of state owned clubs, VAR, the Glazers, the super league nonsense. All modern developments to the game that just make the game hard to love.

I just hope that when I finally get to go to a game again, or even just watch one with a bunch of mates, it'll start to bring back that connection.
 
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redshaw

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For some fans and clubs it's tough, they've spent over a hundred years getting to a point that can be usurped in 5-10 years. The clubs now are Jack walkers times a 1000 but football has grown to attract all these billionaires to buy clubs as play things/PR exercise. Other fans/players embrace City and PSG and breaking some other status quo. Serie A's golden era was manufactured by millionaires.

With Uefa coming out praising City after all that's gone on you can see the souless football truck will keep going hard. You can't draw a line in the sand, it will keep changing and adapting technology until it's unrecognizable or disbanded for other entertainment.
 
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Galactic

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The game has evolved. Accept it or leave.
 

largelyworried

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The game has evolved. Accept it or leave.
You can't leave, that's the problem. If you grew up supporting and loving the club, surrounded by friends and family who all shared that lived experience, you cant just choose walk away from it. It's be like choosing not to love your family, its something that can be done consciously.
 

Galactic

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You can't leave, that's the problem. If you grew up supporting and loving the club, surrounded by friends and family who all shared that lived experience, you cant just choose walk away from it. It's be like choosing not to love your family, its something that can be done consciously.
Divorce, disown, unfriend. Why torture yourself with something you don’t love anymore?
 

Reditus

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I have been the opposite. I was fairly down on the sport and utd under Mourinho. I still watched every game but it was more like a chore than anything else. But since Ole took over I have re-found my love for the club again and in turn the sport as a whole.

But I understand why some folks are feeling a bit dismayed at the moment
 

thepolice123

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What's happening to football is just a reflection of what's happening with the world.

Sometimes I think people who look at football and see nothing but despair is just largely brought upon by how they perceive the world.
 

RUCK4444

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VAR is there mate.
What I forgot is to give an honourable mention to men of weakness that dive and cheat and over react. You know the Neymars and Sons.
Yeah they are there too.

The list, in fairness, is a very long one.

I don’t disagree with any of your points mate. It’s why I find myself less and less emotionally invested in the game.

There was a time it dominated my weekends and now I literally just watch United games. Even they become a hard watch, not because of how we play (I’m quite happy with the improvement there) but VAR and the diving and the money first approach have made it an entirely different game for me.

I’m 35, not sure if that’s ‘old’ but old enough to remember when the game was at its most pure in my opinion (at least in my lifetime.) 90’s and the 00’s are a world apart from this imo.
 

Reducation

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Football TV highlights. Jerky camera, rapid zoom. Something wrong there.
Just point the camera at the match, adjust direction of view smoothly when necessary. It is not complicated.
 

Livewire1974

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The Dippers winning the league was a major catalyst for the downhill slide of the game.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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There’s an easy solution. State controlled pyramid (Not Tory ran)

- Create an English football streaming platform. Flat fee, one subscription gets all leagues, including women’s football and internationals.

- Ensure that all teams have an equal number of streamed matches. (More in total).

- Keep the 3pm Saturday blackout and have half the weeks fixtures in that slot.

- Split all subscription payments fairly across all leagues. Not equally. But equitably.

Why are we using some outdated model with bidding wars and several services showing games? Sell the rights globally, keep ALL of the money in the game. All clubs would have more cash.

Use shit loads of that money for post-retirement player insurance. Parkinson’s, mental health, look after your people. Invest in referee training. Upskill lower tier players and fast track coaching.

This shit is not hard. Capitalism pretends it is.
 

McGrathsipan

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Yeah they are there too.

The list, in fairness, is a very long one.

I don’t disagree with any of your points mate. It’s why I find myself less and less emotionally invested in the game.

There was a time it dominated my weekends and now I literally just watch United games. Even they become a hard watch, not because of how we play (I’m quite happy with the improvement there) but VAR and the diving and the money first approach have made it an entirely different game for me.

I’m 35, not sure if that’s ‘old’ but old enough to remember when the game was at its most pure in my opinion (at least in my lifetime.) 90’s and the 00’s are a world apart from this imo.
I'm 41, its not that long ago when football was just brilliant. The sport was the dominant story. Sometimes I dont even watch anymore as I just can connect with it. Its a complete world away.
Maybe we are just getting old
 

thepolice123

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I’m 35, not sure if that’s ‘old’ but old enough to remember when the game was at its most pure in my opinion (at least in my lifetime.) 90’s and the 00’s are a world apart from this imo.
Replace football in this thread with music, film, basketball, wrestling etc, and it wouldn't look out of place.
 

Harry Harries

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I have been the opposite. I was fairly down on the sport and utd under Mourinho. I still watched every game but it was more like a chore than anything else. But since Ole took over I have re-found my love for the club again and in turn the sport as a whole.

But I understand why some folks are feeling a bit dismayed at the moment
It's much easier to love Ole's United but football in general feels far more depressing at the moment. Probably a confluence of the impact of COVID, Liverpool and Man City winning all and sundry, the Super League catastrophe and subsequent opening of the worm can (greed and money in football has reached fever pitch - Qatar 2022 is round the fecking corner if anyone can be arsed). I also think that the general standard is lower at the moment. Barca and Real Madrid are a shadow of their former selves, likewise Bayern and Juventus seem a bit tired. The Messi and Ronaldo era is over etc etc. Not the most exciting time in football, in my opinion.
 

peridigm

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Football is gone beyond the point of no return in my opinion.

Clubs are gone - replaced by business. Fans are customers. Owners dont care, they just take.
Racism and abuse - rampant and dominant. Taking knees and Social media boycotts get more headlines
VAR - the absolute car crash that is ruining the game as a spectacle
FIFA and Corruption - fecking Qatar world cups
Power - the big (clubs) businesses' in the "game" attempt to create a cartel and ram a big feck you to their customers (formerly known as fans).

This is a new low. The game and everything about it is toxic and sickening. Its not meant to be like this.
There is no joy in this anymore. No enjoyment, no meaning to it. Everyone is talking about anything other than what's on the pitch.
Is there any way back from here? Its sunk so low into the abyss of toxicity!
Stop supporting the masses and start supporting a small local club that are invested in your community.
 

Matthew84!

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I really don't think its as bad as people make out, money as always played a part in football,
People seem to only enjoy it when Utd are winning everything most seasons.
Those days are gone, enjoy the little things and your life will be better especially supporting Utd.
Next season when the fans are back and everyone has forgot about the super league it'll be better.
 

Withnail

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We pay! Thats the fundamental isnt it. I would say your train of thought is also valid though, but fundamentally we are also customers too.
They are right though. Most fans aren't paying the club directly and the vast majority of the money they get in is from TV companies and sponsors.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Power - the big (clubs) businesses' in the "game" attempt to create a cartel and ram a big feck you to their customers (formerly known as fans).
Didn't get away with that, though. Completely misread not only the demographic (as in - "customers") - but also pundits, players, managers, etc.

I largely agree with your pessimistic view - but the ESL fiasco was actually pretty sweet and (maybe) even a reason for some optimism with regard to the game's future.
 

diarm

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I know, but how much does the average (I stress average) fan spend per annum at MUFC?
Well if they say we have 650 million fans worldwide, and our annual revenue is around £560m (average of the last 5 years), then you can say the average fan is worth £860k to the club per annum.
 

Raees

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We could be positive and say it can’t get any lower and the game is ripe for change of the good kind if we fight for it.
 

Green_Red

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Started in '92, don't know why your surprised these things have happened.
It actually started when Ferguson tried to shaft our owners over studding rights to Rock of Gibralter. McManus and Magnier selling their ownership to the Glazers was the beginning of the end. Up until that moment our club was owned by fans, and more importantly run for their interests.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/magnier-and-mcmanus-to-make-125m-from-man-utd-1.441274?mode=amp

Almost 16 years ago now that article. Mad.
 

Ananke

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The game has evolved. Accept it or leave.
I bet you bend easily.

To the OP, try to take a positive look on this. It's in such a bad place right now that it's waking people up. I'm hoping momentum stays on all these problems, personally.