Its not supposed to be like this...

thepolice123

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Well if they say we have 650 million fans worldwide, and our annual revenue is around £560m (average of the last 5 years), then you can say the average fan is worth £860k to the club per annum.
What? :lol:

I would love to be worth that much to the club.
 

diarm

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No I'm actually more curious how did you arrive at £860k.
By dividing annual revenue by number of fans. Revenue doesn't appear from nowhere.

If you wanted to delve deeper, we are probably worth even more considering we share broadcast revenue evenly with the rest of the league. The sheer number of United fans bring more value to those deals than the fans of West Brom or Fulham.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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There’s an easy solution. State controlled pyramid (Not Tory ran)

- Create an English football streaming platform. Flat fee, one subscription gets all leagues, including women’s football and internationals.

- Ensure that all teams have an equal number of streamed matches. (More in total).

- Keep the 3pm Saturday blackout and have half the weeks fixtures in that slot.

- Split all subscription payments fairly across all leagues. Not equally. But equitably.

Why are we using some outdated model with bidding wars and several services showing games? Sell the rights globally, keep ALL of the money in the game. All clubs would have more cash.

Use shit loads of that money for post-retirement player insurance. Parkinson’s, mental health, look after your people. Invest in referee training. Upskill lower tier players and fast track coaching.

This shit is not hard. Capitalism pretends it is.
I agree with a platform to take it out of the hands of the highest bidding broadcaster. That would benefit the consumer, more than having to subscribe to more than one platform at around £90 a month.

But isn't the 3pm blackout part of an outdated model? I think that's the only part people would struggle to get on board with now, particularly as covid has meant that every game is televised, are fans going to want to go back to TV package where they're not? It encourages people to go to games, but that's not possible for everyone, particularly away games. It would drive people towards streaming illegitimately. A legit streaming platform has the opportunity to put a dent in illegal streaming, they should take advantage of it.
 

JPRouve

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There’s an easy solution. State controlled pyramid (Not Tory ran)

- Create an English football streaming platform. Flat fee, one subscription gets all leagues, including women’s football and internationals.

- Ensure that all teams have an equal number of streamed matches. (More in total).

- Keep the 3pm Saturday blackout and have half the weeks fixtures in that slot.

- Split all subscription payments fairly across all leagues. Not equally. But equitably.

Why are we using some outdated model with bidding wars and several services showing games? Sell the rights globally, keep ALL of the money in the game. All clubs would have more cash.

Use shit loads of that money for post-retirement player insurance. Parkinson’s, mental health, look after your people. Invest in referee training. Upskill lower tier players and fast track coaching.

This shit is not hard. Capitalism pretends it is.
How much would the broadcaster pay and who would it be?
 

thepolice123

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By dividing annual revenue by number of fans. Revenue doesn't appear from nowhere.

If you wanted to delve deeper, we are probably worth even more considering we share broadcast revenue evenly with the rest of the league. The sheer number of United fans bring more value to those deals than the fans of West Brom or Fulham.
£560m reveune divided by 650m fans = £860k?

I would love to have what you are smoking. :lol:
 

bsCallout

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Not sure I agree. There is a commercialisation that has gone a bit far but things like VAR were proposed and people thought would be great, perhaps that needs changing again.

I'm loving watching United under Ole, best it's been since Fergie for me.

We dominated to such a degree under Fergie that I wonder how must fans have felt at the time whilst we cry about City or Chelsea winning something.

I think some of you are just fed up with lockdown and/or just getting old.
 

JPRouve

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By dividing annual revenue by number of fans. Revenue doesn't appear from nowhere.

If you wanted to delve deeper, we are probably worth even more considering we share broadcast revenue evenly with the rest of the league. The sheer number of United fans bring more value to those deals than the fans of West Brom or Fulham.
Using your parameters each fan is worth 86 cents per year.
 

JPRouve

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Each fan is worth £0.86.

Less than a cheeseburger.
And even that isn't correct, the commercial value isn't based on fans but on viewers and specifically on viewership during the enterity of the season, so the actual figure is in dozens of billions of signififcant views. Now the trick is probably that the actual value is beyond football and difficult if not impossible to determine, would Gazprom or Samsung lose customers if they didn't sponsor football or spent less on advertisement?
 

diarm

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And even that isn't correct, the commercial value isn't based on fans but on viewers and specifically on viewership during the enterity of the season, so the actual figure is in dozens of billions of signififcant views. Now the trick is probably that the actual value is beyond football and difficult if not impossible to determine, would Gazprom or Samsung lose customers if they didn't sponsor football or spent less on advertisement?
The value is whatever sponsors are willing to pay. Those numbers are based on how many fans we have.
 

JPRouve

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The value is whatever sponsors are willing to pay. Those numbers are based on how many fans we have.
No, sponsors don't care about how many fans we have. They care about how many people may see a game that we play, they don't even care if it's a full game, it's simply based on the likelyhood to see enough of it for them to spot their brand.
But to make it simple, sponsors pay for viewership not fans.

Edit: And a viewer is worth more than what sponsors pay for otherwise there would be no point paying.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I agree with a platform to take it out of the hands of the highest bidding broadcaster. That would benefit the consumer, more than having to subscribe to more than one platform at around £90 a month.

But isn't the 3pm blackout part of an outdated model? I think that's the only part people would struggle to get on board with now, particularly as covid has meant that every game is televised, are fans going to want to go back to TV package where they're not? It encourages people to go to games, but that's not possible for everyone, particularly away games. It would drive people towards streaming illegitimately. A legit streaming platform has the opportunity to put a dent in illegal streaming, they should take advantage of it.
If the option was all games at 3pm with no TV rights, or no games at 3pm and all games televised... the former is healthier.

Match day Attendance needs to be protected and encouraged.

Control the content centrally. The English League selling identically packages to all markets is the winner. Hell, NEVER televise United - Liverpool. Make it an aspirational experience. That would suck for you and I. But it would reward fans. A 45-60 minute highlights package released the day of would satiate most.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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By dividing annual revenue by number of fans. Revenue doesn't appear from nowhere.

If you wanted to delve deeper, we are probably worth even more considering we share broadcast revenue evenly with the rest of the league. The sheer number of United fans bring more value to those deals than the fans of West Brom or Fulham.
?
 

JPRouve

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No broadcaster. The pyramid owns the platform. Customer payments go into a pot, the cash is split equitably.

There is ZERO reason to sell the rights.
So you are saying that the pyramid is the broadcaster? Where is the money coming from? What is the broadcasting strategy and if they don't sell the rights to foreign broadcasters, do they intend to provide dozens if not hundreds of different languages?
 

RUCK4444

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Replace football in this thread with music, film, basketball, wrestling etc, and it wouldn't look out of place.
What are these ‘Basketball’ and ‘Wrestling’ you speak of? Are these American things?

nah in fairness as people get older they romanticise about all subjects on how ‘it was better in my day.’ I get that, HOWEVER, this is the exception to the rule.

How would football not be much, much better if we didn’t have diving cheats, VAR which is just an embarrassment at this point, money greedy owners sucking the competition out of the sport, constantly being hounded to bet even though the average person is badly affected financially by a pandemic, inept officials, stop start shite games. Too many other things to list...

It’s nowhere near as good as it was, I will argue till I’m blue in the face on that, in fact I have done already in many VAR related threads amongst others.

The game was simple, pure, authentic. Three words I struggle to use to describe what we watch these days.
 

thepolice123

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What are these ‘Basketball’ and ‘Wrestling’ you speak of? Are these American things?

nah in fairness as people get older they romanticise about all subjects on how ‘it was better in my day.’ I get that, HOWEVER, this is the exception to the rule.

How would football not be much, much better if we didn’t have diving cheats, VAR which is just an embarrassment at this point, money greedy owners sucking the competition out of the sport, constantly being hounded to bet even though the average person is badly affected financially by a pandemic, inept officials, stop start shite games. Too many other things to list...

It’s nowhere near as good as it was, I will argue till I’m blue in the face on that, in fact I have done already in many VAR related threads amongst others.

The game was simple, pure, authentic. Three words I struggle to use to describe what we watch these days.
How is it any different?

In the NBA people criticise the sport for being robotic (heavily emphasis on 3-pointers), lack of flair (or slam dunks), soft calls on fouls, poor defense, franchise and superstars dominated

In the entertainment industry you find people saying the exact same thing. It is dominated by big corporations, heavily marketed and monetised. People criticise the use of autotune and CGI (technology), formulaic music and movie making (profit), bad acting and singing (lack of talent) and politically motivated.

I've said in my previous post that what is happening with football is just a reflection of what's happening around the world in general. I'm not defending modern football, but such views are really just a subset of a bigger picture.

And seriously, diving cheats, stop start shite games, inept officials, sports betting, exist in any era. You can come up with a ton of reasons why modern football is bad but you simply choose things that irk you.
 

rollingstoned1

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Football is gone beyond the point of no return in my opinion.

Clubs are gone - replaced by business. Fans are customers. Owners dont care, they just take.
Racism and abuse - rampant and dominant. Taking knees and Social media boycotts get more headlines
VAR - the absolute car crash that is ruining the game as a spectacle
FIFA and Corruption - fecking Qatar world cups
Power - the big (clubs) businesses' in the "game" attempt to create a cartel and ram a big feck you to their customers (formerly known as fans).

This is a new low. The game and everything about it is toxic and sickening. Its not meant to be like this.
There is no joy in this anymore. No enjoyment, no meaning to it. Everyone is talking about anything other than what's on the pitch.
Is there any way back from here? Its sunk so low into the abyss of toxicity!
agree tbh, i haven't cared this less about what happens on the pitch even during the dire Moyes/LVG/Mourinho days. I think the sl isn't the last we have seen of an idea like it, people who think that are just lying to themselves or didn't think something like what happened 2 weeks ago would have ever happened. it's a symptom of a deeper malaise.