It's not the manager, it's the players

breakout67

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
9,050
Supports
Man City
I do what I can
It's quite pathetic isn't it. You would think that getting humiliated by a mid table club would light a fire under these players, trigger some emotional response, go out kicking and screaming. But they have just given up, no fight at all in these players.
 
Last edited:

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
Combination of both of course, but the fact is we have more talent than we have shown in recent years. Not one player improves once they get here, and it’s clear to me that bringing in a few who are just a bit more talented won’t change anything much.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
31,487
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
It's quite pathetic isn't it. You would think that getting humiliated by a mid table club would light a fire under these players, trigger some emotional response, go out kicking and screaming. But they are just taking it up the arse, no fight at all in these players.
I'd love to know which players have already decided they're off in the summer because more than half of them are playing like it.
 

Sara125

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
3,021
Location
London
Don’t know why we care so much tbh the players obviously don’t they’ll just pick up their 250k wages, drive their foreign cars to their fancy houses and feck their 10/10 girlfriends
 

Mal donaghy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
1,662
Location
Stockport
No more big money contract renewals. I don't want to see Ander/Rashford on 300k a week, Mata on 500k a week, De Gea on 800 a week.

We are done with pampering the players. Get some youth kids into the team and let the rest find their big payday somewhere else.

Fecking mercenaries. And not even good mercenaries at that.

Shite.
Spot on pal
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,120
It's the players. Get rid of them all. I'd rather lose with Academy players than with most of those assholes out there.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
16,992
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Truth is normally somewhere down the middle.
 

Nytram Shakes

cannot lust
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
5,266
Location
Auckland
Of course their is a problem with an ingrained attitude among the players. but what do we do clear out 25 players? that will take 3 years at least, and do we trust Ole and Woodward to replace them?

We need a manager who can start changing the players attitude and culture at the club while beginning to flip the squad over. That is already shown not to be Ole.
 

Sara125

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
3,021
Location
London
No more big money contract renewals. I don't want to see Ander/Rashford on 300k a week, Mata on 500k a week, De Gea on 800 a week.

We are done with pampering the players. Get some youth kids into the team and let the rest find their big payday somewhere else.

Fecking mercenaries. And not even good mercenaries at that.

Shite.
Absolutely this. We call the likes of city and PSG players mercenaries but at least they put their all in for their respective teams. These united players couldn’t give one feck.
 

jem

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
9,258
Location
Toronto
Absolutely this. We call the likes of city and PSG players mercenaries but at least they put their all in for their respective teams. These united players couldn’t give one feck.
This is why giving massive pay-raises to the likes of Pogba (despite his quality,) De Gea and especially Rashford would send all wrong kinds of signals. I'd rather sign a Ryan Fraser, who may not be as talented, but will come here with something to prove than reward Rashford for continually taking awful set-pieces.
 

cedara

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
60
£150m Pogba
£80m De Gea
£80m Rashford
£50m Martial
£40m Lukaku
£5m Darmian
£5m Smalling
£1m Matic
£1 Young
+ £200m transfer budget

That's £611,000,001 we can muster together for a new team this summer. Promote a few kids, spend big on 5-6 new players and we're all good.
Did you forgot something? Jones, Fred, Sanchez ? I would promote all U23 team players from next match instead of using those rotten tomatoes which are humiliating the United name.
 

Mal donaghy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
1,662
Location
Stockport
Its cause we only end up signing the shit the other big clubs dont want, virtually every big team has a superstar player who delivers the goods in most games, i.e ,hazard, Salah, kane, Aubameyang, aguero, to name a few of the EPLs top five teams players.
Now think about this Where the feck is ours ????
 

NoLogo

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
19,750
Location
I can't remember why I joined this war.
The entire back four needs to be replaced. 3 FBs (one on the left, two on the right) 2 new quality CBs and keep either Jones or Lindelöf as a rotation option, with our injury luck probably better both. Midfield needs a creative and defensive force and if Pogba leaves another quality attacking option. Right wing needs at least two new options and apparently the left does as well at least need one more. Also a quality striker can't hurt at this point either.

That's between 10-12 quality players we need to buy to get this team up to an acceptable level.
 

Red_Aaron

Full Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
4,303
Location
Dig up stupid!
There's absolutely no question it is the players.

People talking about the structure and the ceo but Woodward being a prick does not excuse professional players from showing the required energy and application on the pitch. Do we really think appointing a dof will suddenly make lukaku capable of trapping a ball or martial of running into space?

Everton embarrassed us today simply by giving their all from an athletic pov and there is never any excuse for a professional sportsman at any level not physically working hard enough.

We were strolling from the first whistle and despite the goals going in against us we never picked up the pace at any point.

Complete and utter disgrace today
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,496
I'm fed up with it all, spent half a season in arguments on here with idiots who thought it was all the manager and just when i thought they might have been right and i was wrong the players make it abundantly clear it's them.

Our last manager had fallen out with half the team so that underpinned some analysis of performances, these lot supposedly like Ole and yet this is how we perform. Until next season I'm putting it on the players rather than Ole but he's not earning much trust to be honest.

We'll end up no closer to top 4, a point or two perhaps at most. The players can feck off moaning about toxic environments
 

SAFMUTD

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
11,787
Squads rotten, but you’d have to be truly deluded to not have huge concerns about such a massively inexperienced manager. Ole is giving us plenty of reasons to be worried about the future.
Exactly this.
 

shaky

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
2,515
Did you forgot something? Jones, Fred, Sanchez ? I would promote all U23 team players from next match instead of using those rotten tomatoes which are humiliating the United name.
I think Fred still has potential. Jones can join the list though. If Sanchez was to leave, we'll need to give him away for nowt to make up for the wages he'll be wanting at his new club.
 

shahzy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
985
Can we boo the shit out of this dross of players? Have them finally embarassed and realise how much of a disgrace they are to the shirt.

I know we as fans hated that when Madrid fans did that to their players but look how that kept them on their toes always trying their hardest. Our players don't even look like they care at this point
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
18,444
Supports
Mejbri
I'm fed up with it all, spent half a season in arguments on here with idiots who thought it was all the manager and just when i thought they might have been right and i was wrong the players make it abundantly clear it's them.

Our last manager had fallen out with half the team so that underpinned some analysis of performances, these lot supposedly like Ole and yet this is how we perform. Until next season I'm putting it on the players rather than Ole but he's not earning much trust to be honest.

We'll end up no closer to top 4, a point or two perhaps at most. The players can feck off moaning about toxic environments
I feel exactly the same.
 

Hulksmash

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
521
Can someone call Thanos to Snap half our Squad? :lol:

Honestly it's the players, they are not running enough
 

Hawks2008

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
4,912
Location
Melbz
This squad is rubbish, seriously don't think many are worth keeping. Says at all that we need a full overhaul AGAIN.
 

Dante

Average bang
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
25,280
Location
My wit's end
Solskjaer is a manager who emphasises running and effort.

But today, United ran 8.03km less than Everton. That's on the players, because the manager is clearly not telling them to run less.
 

UnitedFan93

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
577
There's absolutely no question it is the players.

People talking about the structure and the ceo but Woodward being a prick does not excuse professional players from showing the required energy and application on the pitch. Do we really think appointing a dof will suddenly make lukaku capable of trapping a ball or martial of running into space?

Everton embarrassed us today simply by giving their all from an athletic pov and there is never any excuse for a professional sportsman at any level not physically working hard enough.

We were strolling from the first whistle and despite the goals going in against us we never picked up the pace at any point.

Complete and utter disgrace today
It is Woodward who gives these players new contracts. Look at Martial, a guy who looks like he can't be arsed and puts in a half decent performance once every five games. Why the feck has he been given a new and improved 5 year contract on 200k a week? Jones, Smalling and Young are all fecking useless yet they have also been given new contracts. This is down to Woodward!
 

MrSingh2002

New Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
4,408
Ole's been running his mouth at press conferences just like LVG and just like Mourinho.

And now he's had the same situation where the players don't like it and aren't playing for him in the same way. Ole's naive. Should be saying one thing in public and plotting another behind the scenes.
 

breakout67

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
9,050
Supports
Man City
Players play like pricks because they have no accountability. Why would any player want to give his all when he knows that he'll get a bumper new contract anyway?

Like I've been saying for a long time, it is a culture problem. Mediocrity is rewarded, there is no pressure to perform for the players. The standards have fallen.
 

Wumminator

The Qatar Pounder
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
22,933
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
It is the players, obviously.

But the managers have got to take a load of blame.

Look at these signings:

Fellaini

Mata

Herrera

Shaw

Di Maria

Falcao

Blind

Valdes

Depay

Rojo

Darmian

Schweinsteiger

Schneiderlin

Romero

Martial

Bailly

Ibra

Mkhitaryan

Pogba

Lindelof

Lukaku

Sanchez

Matic

Fred

Dalot

Grant

It is genuinely mental how bad that list is.
 

Moriarty

Full Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
18,995
Location
Reichenbach Falls
Players play like pricks because they have no accountability. Why would any player want to give his all when he knows that he'll get a bumper new contract anyway?

Like I've been saying for a long time, it is a culture problem. Mediocrity is rewarded, there is no pressure to perform for the players. The standards have fallen.
Do you think they'd get away with this stuff at Anfield or at City? They'd be shown the door. Fergie wouldn't have stood for it either. The Glazers (part) own a multi-billion pound business, the end product of which is substandard. They've got away with that in Tampa and they're doing it here too and the bubble shows no signs of bursting.
 

breakout67

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2017
Messages
9,050
Supports
Man City
Do you think they'd get away with this stuff at Anfield or at City? They'd be shown the door. Fergie wouldn't have stood for it either. The Glazers (part) own a multi-billion pound business, the end product of which is substandard. They've got away with that in Tampa and they're doing it here too and the bubble shows no signs of bursting.
Both LVG and Mou had a period where things 'clicked' and we were looking to get somewhere and then it all went pear shaped.

LVG's first season was a good platform to build from, but then we had a horrible summer transfer window letting go of loads of attackers and only getting Martial. That meant we didn't have enough goals in the team and were shambolic going forward. Mourinho had a good 1.5 seasons, getting a decent points total and some trophies under his belt, we then got two unproven players and his 3rd season happened. I see a recurring theme of managers being shafted by money men at key moments, when we should have pushed on we delayed and consolidated.

In the current climate, not improving your team is actually moving backwards, because there will be multiple teams making big strides in this area. We only seem to want to improve the team when we are out of top 4, when we are in top 4 we spend much less.
 

AKDevil

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
3,007
Location
London, England
Lack of fight, self pride, bottle, even balls, in that performance today was frightening. Absolutely spineless. Nothing there. Clear what we need. Some players with the above. But where the hell are they that are gettable, quality and consistent. The lack of (positive) consistency (because we have plenty who are consistently crap) in our squad is frightening. Nowhere near enough players you can rely on to be a 7/10 every week.
 

hill16bhoy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
7
Supports
Celtic, Liverpool and The Dubs
As a Manchester United supporter of over 50 years standing, I feel I need to get some things off my chest. In my many decades supporting our club, today was as bad as it has ever got. Worse than the crappy mid-table finishes of the late 80s, worse than losing to Bournemouth in the FA Cup in 1984, worse than relegation in 1974.

I'm sick - sick of the crap football, sick of the preening ponces who wear the shirt, sick of the total lack of effort, sick of seeing zero professional pride.

We were a disgrace today. Gary Neville hit the nail squarely on the head. That man would die for Manchester United. He's angry, because he knows not one of those players is fit to lace his boots. And so am I, and so are all true guardians of our club.

These players are not fit to wear the shirt. They've already got rid of one manager this season, now they clearly want to get rid of another - another United legend who not one of them is fit to lace the boots of.

At the moment, we are nothing. We are a joke. Manchester City supporters are laughing at us.

Liverpool supporters, Liverpool supporters for God's sake, absolutely laughing at us.

Ole took over, and single handedly brought us to a position where we could get Champions League football, where Manchester United must be if we want to be a force in English football again.

And those players have just sat there and said "nah, not for me". What a disgrace.

Let's have a reality check here. If Manchester United are not in the Champions League next season, no top player worth their salt will touch us, we'll be toxic as regards transfers. And the circle of mediocrity that we've seen since Sir Alex retired will continue. This is the Arsenalisation of our club, the progressive winding down of a once great football club into no more than a cash cow, which the owners won't be able to milk any more cash out anyway of because we're bloody useless.

Make no mistake, if we don't get Champions League football next season, we are screwed.

A generation of supporters reared on endless success is now apathetic and disinterested. They know nothing of the fallow years before we started winning. I can tell you, they were terrible. And they are coming back - they're already here. And nobody should fool themselves that it can't get worse, because let me tell you, they can. Look at AC Milan. Once the biggest club in the world, now a total irrelevance not just in European football but in Italian football.

Why? Because they sat on their collective arses and thought the good times would magically go on forever. They didn't. And don't think that can't happen to us.

And most of the supporters just stand by and are happy to let it happen, because to them United is no more than an armchair pleasure, something they can dip in and out of like a soap opera, like Coronation Street or Eastenders.

These type of "supporters" are not Manchester United supporters. They're happy to be cuckolded and consistently made fools of by Manchester City, they're happy for Liverpool supporters to laugh at them, and believe me, they are.

These are the same type of "supporters" who will cheer against their own team on Wednesday because they're more interested in seeing our hated city rivals winning the league than in saving our club.

Arsenal did us a huge favour with a typical tog filling exercise today. Despite not deserving it, we still have a chance of getting top four.

But we have to win every game from here on in. And that starts on Wednesday. Don't bloody talk to me about Liverpool.

This is Manchester United, for God's sake. Since when have we decided we're pathetic cuckolds more interested in losing so City can win the league than going out and winning vital matches ourselves?

Who wins the league is of no consequence to us. We have to look after ourselves. That means the players taking a bloody good look in the mirror and playing for us supporters who pay our hard earned money to watch them. We pay their wages.

And it works both ways - if you turn up to Old Trafford on Wednesday night and cheer for our team bend over and let City win the league, don't ever, ever again call yourself a Manchester United supporter.

We are a great club. Time to start acting like one - time to start having some self-respect - and that means we make Old Trafford into a living hell for City on Wednesday, and we bury them.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,285
i became somewhat of a jose apologists in his final days in charge due to an overwhelming sense of agreement with this thread title.

i have felt for a long long time that the players are simply not good enough; converting wingers to full backs & strikers to wingers. we have some many square pegs in round holes it is embarrassing.

it’s time to press the reset button & mean it; if players do not want to be here or are not good enough to be, be cut throat. a small cleanse is not enough & a long term [multi transfer window] strategy needs to be implemented.

this isn’t football manager so 10 in 10 out may not be feasible short term but some foresight over more than the next window is a must.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,472
Putting the blame on the players is a cop out, and I say this as someone who isn't a fan of this squad.

We've been outplayed by Watford, Everton, West Ham and Wolves recently, and our squad is good enough to outplay them. Especially at home, which wasn't the case with Watford and West Ham. Not to forget us being completely dominated at home by Derby under Ole, too.

Look at Liverpool's and Tottenhams first 11 and, before Klopp and Poch got their hands on them, how many were as good as they are now? At Liverpool/Spurs or their former club. I certainly don't think either squad are a million miles ahead of us, but their coaching and managers are.

You could see a style - regardless of results - of football coming into play relatively early on with them, too. Actually, we saw a style of play under van Gaal being implemented as early as his first game with a much worse off squad than this. The only time post Fergie we've seen this, and we scrapped it for instant results, which, as expected, is hurting us in the long run.

How many months has Ole been here and what is our style of football? Who knows. Bar his first 3 games we haven't played good stuff and I think it's more to do with our coaching than the - albeit underwhelming - squad at hand.
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
30,003
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
Mourinho's style isn't outdated, it just isn't "sexy", and his temperment turns his players against him.

Mourinho plays a by the numbers style of football. He approaches almost every game like it's a CL away fixture, why? It gives you the best chance to take points from every match. This doesn't mean that his teams won't blow away weaker opposition, but it's a from the back first type of style. Incidentally, you will notice that the majority of mid-table/relegation fodder teams in all the top teams of Europe have adopted the Mourinho approach. Why? It gives them the best chance to maximize their ability to earn points through the season.

If the style is outdated, why does almost every major team in Europe take this approach on their away legs in the CL? The issue isn't the style, it's Mourinho being an abrasive bastard who can't make friends, and ultimately sabotages his relationship with the team, or with enough of his team that they quit on him.

Case in point, last season, with this squad of not-good-enoughs, we comfortably stroll to 2nd. What happened? He lost the team, the team gave up on him, and the team collapsed. Ole strolls in, the team starts playing again, and we get a predictable bump in performances, but then we end up figured out for the level we are, and frankly some of Ole's tactical choices/substitutions have been terrible and naive.

The biggest result we've had? PSG away, and guess what, that was PROTOTYPICAL Mourinho ball. Defend deep and organized, and punish with direct quick counter attacks. That wasn't "United Way" That was, Mourinho way.
Well.. now we have a happy smiling ole. I dont see the players performing.
 

Majima

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
4,038
Location
Kami's Lookout
Supports
Ralf Rangnick.
I don't buy into the lazy players narrative at all. That is way too simple & convenient of an excuse. All players want to win. If they are properly motivated and believe in the project, then everything will fall into place and they will give everything for the cause.

What we are facing right now are disillusioned players caused by a lack of a plan/direction by the club years in the making. The players are not robots. They can see/feel the toxicity surrounding the club.

The majority are not good enough and need replacing yes but I don't blame the players at all. They don't pick themselves. All the blame for the mess we're in lies at the feet of the board instead.

They are the ones who are handcuffing us from rebuilding the team properly. Maybe it will be different this summer since the Everton result was that bad, but only Friday, Ole was talking about giving everyone a second chance in pre-season. That comes from the owners.

They allowed the rot to set in under SAF. They are the ones who pull the reigns in once we achieve a modicum of success. They would love to see Ole achieve top 4 every year on a shoestring budget. They don't care about competing. I don't know why there's not more talk in the media putting them firmly in the spotlight instead.

Gary Neville is too busy blaming the players when he should actually be crucifying Woodward/Glazers instead.
 

haram

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
12,921
I don't buy into the lazy players narrative at all. That is way too simple & convenient of an excuse. All players want to win. If they are properly motivated and believe in the project, then everything will fall into place and they will give everything for the cause.

What we are facing right now are disillusioned players caused by a lack of a plan/direction by the club years in the making. The players are not robots. They can see/feel the toxicity surrounding the club.

The majority are not good enough and need replacing yes but I don't blame the players at all. They don't pick themselves. All the blame for the mess we're in lies at the feet of the board instead.

They are the ones who are handcuffing us from rebuilding the team properly. Maybe it will be different this summer since the Everton result was that bad, but only Friday, Ole was talking about giving everyone a second chance in pre-season. That comes from the owners.

They allowed the rot to set in under SAF. They are the ones who pull the reigns in once we achieve a modicum of success. They would love to see Ole achieve top 4 every year on a shoestring budget. They don't care about competing. I don't know why there's not more talk in the media putting them firmly in the spotlight instead.

Gary Neville is too busy blaming the players when he should actually be crucifying Woodward/Glazers instead.
Yes, the board are the biggest culprits. Some of these players are just not good enough, that’s not their fault.
 

Icemav

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
1,697
Of course their is a problem with an ingrained attitude among the players. but what do we do clear out 25 players? that will take 3 years at least, and do we trust Ole and Woodward to replace them?

We need a manager who can start changing the players attitude and culture at the club while beginning to flip the squad over. That is already shown not to be Ole.
Are you being serious? It also hasn't been the last 3 managers either. The club is run by money grubbing muppets who have given power to the players, most of who have achieved nothing and don't deserve to wear the shirt.