It's not the manager, it's the players

Sky1981

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I don't buy into the lazy players narrative at all. That is way too simple & convenient of an excuse. All players want to win. If they are properly motivated and believe in the project, then everything will fall into place and they will give everything for the cause.

What we are facing right now are disillusioned players caused by a lack of a plan/direction by the club years in the making. The players are not robots. They can see/feel the toxicity surrounding the club.

The majority are not good enough and need replacing yes but I don't blame the players at all. They don't pick themselves. All the blame for the mess we're in lies at the feet of the board instead.

They are the ones who are handcuffing us from rebuilding the team properly. Maybe it will be different this summer since the Everton result was that bad, but only Friday, Ole was talking about giving everyone a second chance in pre-season. That comes from the owners.

They allowed the rot to set in under SAF. They are the ones who pull the reigns in once we achieve a modicum of success. They would love to see Ole achieve top 4 every year on a shoestring budget. They don't care about competing. I don't know why there's not more talk in the media putting them firmly in the spotlight instead.

Gary Neville is too busy blaming the players when he should actually be crucifying Woodward/Glazers instead.
The problem is visible, and if it walks talks quacks like a duck, probably it is a duck.

Blaming the CEO, the structure, the DNA, the phylosophy etc are the real cop out. The truth for me is simple, you can lose a game, you be outclassed outgunned and outscored, but if you're limping yourself on the field and feels too lazy to run for the full 90s then that's on the player.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Are you being serious? It also hasn't been the last 3 managers either. The club is run by money grubbing muppets who have given power to the players, most of who have achieved nothing and don't deserve to wear the shirt.
I don't disagree with you that the club is run by "grubbing muppets who have given power to the players". We all know that, but that doesnt change what I said from been correct. The glazers are going nowhere, Woodward is going nowhere. We can't seel 25 players in one summer.

So our only hope is we bring in a manager (and hopefully a director of football) who can start changing attitudes and see over revamp of the squad.

Do we trust Ole, whose only history of big transfers was Cardiff which was a car crash? Who will be working the woodward who is one of those "grubbing muppets who have given power to the players".

The simple answer is its not Just the manager, its not Just the players, it's currently the whole club!
 

Harry190

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I agree with Souness when he says it's a new thing in football. Players that don't care. It really did not happen before, as in, it was not systematic.

 

beergod

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I agree with Souness when he says it's a new thing in football. Players that don't care. It really did not happen before, as in, it was not systematic.

Carragher's got a great point there. The departures are probably more important than the arrivals.
 

Pavl3n

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When we get a really good string of results it's the manager. When we don't it's the players...I don't get it.

However, the manager better sort this mess out in summer, get rid of all the deadwood and start again. No messing around
It does sound ridiculous. And when Jose was in charge when we win it's the players and when we lose it's the manager.

Our performances are revealing that it wasn't Jose's fault all the way.
The clearest indication, in my opinion, was the away game to Barcelona. We started with a spark, we had chances, we pressed them high and didn't really give them much freedom. All until 2 individual mistakes cost us the tie.

Jose was very critical of the players - we thought it's his toxic nature. After Ole's comments post Everton I understand better what went wrong with Mourinho. It's just the Portuguese didn't word himself better.

Now it's clear there are players who couldn't be bothered. Jose never took ownership of the club the way Ole would and that's what makes the difference. I really hope the board gives Ole enough time to unplug the weeds out and install a winners' mentality through the ranks.
 

Foxbatt

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Of course it's the players too. If they can't be arsed or passes to the opposing team we are bound to lose.
I agree that we need a player on the pitch who will give all. Also have an almighty go at Pogba or anyone else that fecks up.
Players like Rashford, Lingard think too much of themselves.
 

flappyjay

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We played a Mourinho midfield of Fred, Matic and Pogba and it got dismantled by Everton. The managers have a part in this too. Ed plays are part in crazy wages and transfer fees. But the managers still buy these players. You can't deny that Matic was a Jose signing