It's pre-season and we are in dire straits

[horsechoker]

We need the sultans of swing!

 

[Tango80]

When you consider how other clubs have done and how long is left in the window, we've done OK.

Two more doesn't sound too bad, that makes it four signings in the window. If you end up bringing in more than say 3 first teamers, you're doing too much too soon IMO.

It's important to stress that this is not a quick fix, and cutting corners by trying to change too much at once is absolutely not the way to go. Sometimes I feel like our fans don't understand that.

 

[Ranchero]

Geez this is the moanest whinest thing I've seen since one my ex girlfriends.

Signing new deals doesn't mean no ambition. It means sensible owners protecting their investment or in some cases maintaining positive personalities/ experienced heads. You can complain if the salary isn't right, but unless you work in the United finance team I'm guessing you'll never really know what they get paid.

Secondly, we have significantly improved our back 4 by adding Wan Bissaka. And yes we are weakened in midfield, but Herrera whilst a hardworker was not exactly a goal maker. More game time for Fred/ Pereira/ McTominay doesn't exactly sound exciting, but we aren't going to be miles off there.

James is a little healthy extra competition to kick Martial in the arse or to give Martial chances up front, so that can also only be positive.

Ndombele for Spurs is probably enough that as it stands means they keep 3rd place. Unless they lose Eriksen and don't replace, i can't see that changing even if we sign 4 more players.

Chelsea are materially weaker without Hazard. He was miles ahead of everyone else on goals and assists, no other player achieved over 8 in either category.

Arsenal are barely doing anything and were hardly convincing last year.

Wolves, Leicester and Everton were a lot of points behind and we had an awful start and end to the year. Everton's form picked up and they will improve this year, but unlikely to push top 4.

Basically we haven't even finished buying players and we are probably already favourites for 4th, with just Arsenal for competition.

Buying several players will secure 4th, but probably no better. It's the reality of where we are and is why longer term investment is a sensible route. City have an almost perfect team, Liverpool similarly have an incredible collection of players gelling well together. We just have to accept that and be first in line after this lot are finished. That might be 3/4 years away. As long as we keep adding youngsters with massive talent we'll be fine.

We are not worse off than last season. We are maybe equal squad wise, but another years development of various players and an introduction for the youngsters means we could collectively be better off.

Pogba is a nuisance, but if he goes I'm confident we'll replace. And if he doesn't I'm sure he can be professional, he needs to be to keep other clubs interested.

I would hope our ambition, as Ole said when he arrived, was higher than fighting for fourth. Even so, if Pogba stays, I don't see him being professional at all. He has not been in the last season. Look what happened at the end of last season, for example. In March he was already publicly courting Real, while we were fighting for Champions League places, and there were no repercussions. We keep defending him. That coincided with our downward spiral at the end of the season.

I can't agree that a Fred/Pereira/McTominay combination is anything other than a non-creative workaday, competitive huff and puff load of old guff. Quite frankly. None of them would get into the Leicester, team for example, who are happily going for talented players like Tielemans for £40m, who is head and shoulders about any of these.

I agree Chelsea may be weaker, but they will still be stronger than us. They have built a strong squad .. and had the likes of young Hudson-Odoi, who is an very exciting young English player who would walk into our team and will get more first team football next season. He is a star in the making and would fit into the old Hazard role. Then you have the likes of Barkley and Loftus-Cheek who were not getting regular starts last season and again, players, who would walk into our midfield. Plus they still have talented experience in Pedro and Willian plus Kante, who Lampard will no doubt play in his proper position this season.

We are crying, no screaming out for creativity. And the one player we were over-reliant on hasn't wanted to be at Old Trafford for some time, and without him? Well Longstaff with nine appearances in the Prem...well.. you struggle to make an argument that is positive. He is young. He is one for the future. Like James. Is that what we have become?

Also.. where is the leadership on the field, in the group we have?

But the idea of a Fred/Pereira/McTominay midfield fills me with dread.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

For where we are at present I think we need players willing to scrap. Ole's not going to click his fingers and get this team/squad playing beautiful football from the off.
It's just not going to happen. For United to move anywhere we need,and yes this is a tired cliche, players willing to put their bodies on the line.
Whether these players are British or overseas is irrelevant.They need to show the right application and desire.

This has to be the foundation.The starting block.And hopefully from there on we can gradually build towards beauty.
We're a diamond in the mud right now.

 

[Ranchero]

So this is what our great club has been reduced to. Celebrating the fact that Chelsea and arsenal won't strengthen enough and hopefully Tottenham won't buy more, while we eek out 4th place and at the same time Liverpool and man city fight for top honours.

City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea still strongest squads in this division right now.

 

[pocco]

I don't get the posters that are taking digs at other posters for panicking or moaning. Just take a look at the last 5/6 years, i think all United fans have every right to be worried right now. You're talking as if its reactionary, which it quite clearly isn't. It's been a long time coming now.

Just because the club are peddling the same "everything will be ok" line, that shit wore thin years ago. Every bit of trust was eradicated long ago.

 

[Ranchero]

Fantastic post. Usual old men on here reminiscing about times and highlighting their hardcore reddism by putting things out of context to impress. Even though they’ve probably snarled at more of such realistic posts since Moyes was appointed and all throughout the past six years when you so called ‘moaners’ have contineously been proven right with your predictions.
Still refusing to accept change, it’s hard for them.

Lovely post. Don’t get discouraged by the farts, most are agreeing with you.

Yup, I remember the many that moaned when saying Moyes is a mistake because he is not a winner. Heads in the sand lead to choking.

 

[red woppit]

Whoever we sign, don't sign, release, sell or otherwise, there will still be a Manchester United team that takes the field against Chelsea in August, whether it's made up of old players that many on here want to get rid of (Jones, Baillie, Smalling, Matic, Mata, Rojo etc) or academy players (Garner, Chong, Greenwood, Gomes etc), I will still be supporting the team whoever wears the shirt. I do not like the Glazers, I have no idea how we can get them out, think Woodward is a waste of space (on the footballing side). I also want certain players to move on, would love to see many of the academy lads come through this season, have my own ideas on which players I would like to see playing for Manchester United, but at the end I will still support and follow the club I have followed for over 55 years. I think that the football we will play under Ole will be so much better to watch than under the previous three managers, and I'm happy to give him two full season's to get the team and squad he wants. I'm under no illusions that sometimes we won't look great, will probably lose some games we shouldn't, will have posters on here screaming for Ole's head when these things happen, but I have a gut feeling that eventually everything will come together (haven't had that under Moyes, Van Gaal and especially Mourinho). All I can think is that some posters on here have only known success, but those of us who remember the 70's and 80's have been through the bad times, and we all know that it will come full circle again, it's just a matter of time. Apologies for the long rant, but I feel better now, just off for my lay down.

 

[Ranchero]

I'm just shocked that some people even bother moaning anymore. I go into every season expecting us to be shit, I'll be pleasantly surprised when (if?) we ever manage to turn it around.

Yes, I understand the mindset. But sometimes you have to get out of this malaise and get things of your chest.

 

[Catt]

I'm looking forward to the season. Mostly because it's shit without football. We've signed Wan-Bissaka.

Hopefully we'll get top four and be able to play in the CL

I can see us really climbing the table next season

 

[Sweet Square]

If United win all our pre season games can this poster be banned for while ?


If there is going to be constant threads moaning about the club and how shit everything is we could at least up the risk level at bit. It would make the forum more enjoyable anyway.

 

[Catt]

Yes, I understand the mindset. But sometimes you have to get out of this malaise and get things of your chest.

It's not sometimes though

 

[Ranchero]

Whoever we sign, don't sign, release, sell or otherwise, there will still be a Manchester United team that takes the field against Chelsea in August, whether it's made up of old players that many on here want to get rid of (Jones, Baillie, Smalling, Matic, Mata, Rojo etc) or academy players (Garner, Chong, Greenwood, Gomes etc), I will still be supporting the team whoever wears the shirt. I do not like the Glazers, I have no idea how we can get them out, think Woodward is a waste of space (on the footballing side). I also want certain players to move on, would love to see many of the academy lads come through this season, have my own ideas on which players I would like to see playing for Manchester United, but at the end I will still support and follow the club I have followed for over 55 years. I think that the football we will play under Ole will be so much better to watch than under the previous three managers, and I'm happy to give him two full season's to get the team and squad he wants. I'm under no illusions that sometimes we won't look great, will probably lose some games we shouldn't, will have posters on here screaming for Ole's head when these things happen, but I have a gut feeling that eventually everything will come together (haven't had that under Moyes, Van Gaal and especially Mourinho). All I can think is that some posters on here have only known success, but those of us who remember the 70's and 80's have been through the bad times, and we all know that it will come full circle again, it's just a matter of time. Apologies for the long rant, but I feel better now, just off for my lay down.

Well I was a fan when United were relegated from the top flight under Tommy Doch.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I don't get the posters that are taking digs at other posters for panicking or moaning. Just take a look at the last 5/6 years, i think all United fans have every right to be worried right now. You're talking as if its reactionary, which it quite clearly isn't. It's been a long time coming now.

Just because the club are peddling the same "everything will be ok" line, that shit wore thin years ago. Every bit of trust was eradicated long ago.

These conversations have been taking place every pre-season since Moyes. And - one season aside - we've consistently finished well below our true level and had shockingly average/bad seasons. At what point do the positive top-red fans start pulling their heads out of the sand and start thinking that perhaps the negative fans are actally onto something?

 

[VP89]

If United win all our pre season games can this poster be banned for while ?


If there is going to be constant threads moaning about the club and how shit everything is we could at least up the risk level at bit. It would make forum more enjoyable anyway.

I'm fine with realistic discussions and debates. And in reality we are a shit show. We can't get top targets at reasonable fees, we still can't identify our prime centre back target and tie him down, we can't hire a DoF, we can't get rid of the deadweight, etc.

Sure there are some positives, like Ole's optimism and welcome style of play, the two players we have signed are certainly steps in the right direction and so on. But going to pre-season noting all of the above is quite a dire state of affairs. We don't know who our mainstay CB pairing will be, we don't know who our 9 is, we don't know whether Pogba stays or goes, haven't plugged the central midfield gap, the right wing gap and so on. In 1 years time DDG could be out. Pogba will almost certainly be out. Do you think we'll plug these problems with a 1 year headstart? I'm unsure - just look at what we did with Maguire last season. Took a pass and now return with our tail between our legs

These conversations have been taking place every pre-season since Moyes. And - one season aside - we've consistently finished well below our true level and had shockingly average/bad seasons. At what point do the positive top-red fans start pulling their heads out of the sand and start thinking that perhaps the negative fans are actally onto something?

No they haven't. Pre-season in Jose's first season was full of optimism. Same with LVG for 2 seasons. Excitement over a "new era" was also present when Moyes came in charge and brought in his scouts etc. It quickly went to shits when the season started and progressed into mediocrity.

The pre-season concern really kicked off last year. Sure Jose was a whining sod during the conferences but the warning signs were there in terms of lack of targets being signed. Now it's a case of us being far far too slow in the market.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Sheesh. Breathe. We are not supposed to turn this around in 1 season. Give it time.

We're into the 7th season. Roll on season 20/21.

 

[L1nk]

People don't half love burying their heads in the sand and pretending like we've got all the time in the world and everything is fine here. Maybe the OP is a little pessimistic but it's hardly untrue is it? Everybody here should be worried based, if nothing else, purely on our awfully poor transfer windows for many seasons past.

The likely scenario is, at this rate, that we get 3, maybe 4 players, and that's who, James, AWB and Longstaff for 3, maybe Bruno or a CD 4th

Whilst it's likely now we sell Pogba, and if not I genuinely can't see him getting his head down and working hard, he'll sulk. Lukaku probably gone, Herrera already gone, no players who should actually be sold going at all by the looks.

We're going to end up with a worse squad than last seasons but of course, optimism and such...

 

[Ranchero]

After reading yet another post like this, it got me thinking. If social media had existed in 1995 - I seriously wonder what the mood would have been like. We sold Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes - and replaced them with … noone. And after being destroyed 3-1 by Villa on the opening day, there would probably have been 10 threads asking for Fergusons head.

That was the match after which Hansen said "you can't win anything with kids". What we have now is totally different. We actually had a bunch of talented youngsters, then.

 

[fergies coat]

Agree with everything, but whatcha gonna do?

Brother when hulkamania runs wild on you?

 

[Ranchero]

When you consider how other clubs have done and how long is left in the window, we've done OK.

Two more doesn't sound too bad, that makes it four signings in the window. If you end up bringing in more than say 3 first teamers, you're doing too much too soon IMO.

It's important to stress that this is not a quick fix, and cutting corners by trying to change too much at once is absolutely not the way to go. Sometimes I feel like our fans don't understand that.

We need major surgery and we are at the moment still using sticking plasters.

Notwithstanding that, our major priorities are central defence and creativity in midfield. We have been screaming out for energetic creatives in central midfield, and our only real creator Pogba wants to leave, and we have brought in a right back. We will get nowhere without footballers, players with a football brain.

The problem is, as I said, bringing in Maguire and Fernandez would be a half decent window. But then you ignore the Pogba/Lukaku situation. If they leave and we don't replace them properly, then we are worse off. Getting rid of Pogba's attitude and influence in the dressing room, might be a positive, but there is no question that he remains the most talented individual in our midfield. Having said that there is no competition with us salivating over the delights of Pereira and McTominay, who to me look like cloggers.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Didn’t know I’d just lost a game of Fifa but ok then.

Admitting that you play FIFA and correlate everything to it is even worse.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

People don't half love burying their heads in the sand and pretending like we've got all the time in the world and everything is fine here. Maybe the OP is a little pessimistic but it's hardly untrue is it? Everybody here should be worried based, if nothing else, purely on our awfully poor transfer windows for many seasons past.

The likely scenario is, at this rate, that we get 3, maybe 4 players, and that's who, James, AWB and Longstaff for 3, maybe Bruno or a CD 4th

Whilst it's likely now we sell Pogba, and if not I genuinely can't see him getting his head down and working hard, he'll sulk. Lukaku probably gone, Herrera already gone, no players who should actually be sold going at all by the looks.

We're going to end up with a worse squad than last seasons but of course, optimism and such...

Another point is: we're reducing our wages significantly. Fellaini, Herrera and Valencia already gone. 300k off weekly wages. If we sell Lukaku and Pogba that's another 500k off our wages. 800k a week we're saving. And we've added AWB (80k) and James(30k). So we still have a 620k gap to fill. Maguire would get 150k. Bruno maybe 100k. But otherwise we're seemingly saving money going into the season. Which is insane considering we didn't spend anything to begin with.

 

[Ranchero]

Another point is: we're reducing our wages significantly. Fellaini, Herrera and Valencia already gone. 300k off weekly wages. If we sell Lukaku and Pogba that's another 500k off our wages. 800k a week we're saving. And we've added AWB (80k) and James(30k). So we still have a 620k gap to fill. Maguire would get 150k. Bruno maybe 100k. But otherwise we're seemingly saving money going into the season. Which is insane considering we didn't spend anything to begin with.

And I think that may be the unrecognised undercurrent. We may be describing it as having a young/British talent ethos as a cover for cost-cutting.

 

[Buster15]

I love how posters who say anything negative about the club are still labelled as moaning drama queens.

They've been right for 6 years now and some still think they overreact and are short-sighted.

Very good point. Nothing wrong with looking for a step change is there.
Nothing like a step change yet.
Or even a small change.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Admitting that you play FIFA and correlate everything to it is even worse.

Haven’t played it in years, equated due to the ‘owned’ tag but have at it big man.

You’ve again assumed but remain clueless - more than happy to debate the validity of my comments but as i said people seem to want a pissing contest.

Thought we were on a board where fans of the club debate points but apparently say one thing ‘the masses’ don’t like & the cool kids gather round using cool kid terms like ‘owned’. The hypocrisy & ego in that sentence.

If we’ve nothing nice to say I’m more than happy to ignore your existence on this forum, please do so with mine.

 

[Godfather]

Ole said we want our transfers done before pre season starts. So far we have bought one starter. Is it allowed to state that this is not ideal at all?

 

[El Jefe]

How can the OP be accused of being hysterical. While I don't totally agree, its a school of thought that is totally plausible.

We've been horrid these last 6 years and could potentially have the worst squad post SAF along with the worst manger post SAF. This really does have the potential to be the worst United season in PL history.

I'll save my opinion till when the transfer window closes but as things stand right now its looking very bad.

 

[sullydnl]

When the season ended we knew we had glaring weaknesses in the team already. We knew that there was a strong possibility that any/all of Pogba, De Gea and Lukaku would want to leave. We knew that Herrrera was definitely gone. We knew useless players on big money (Sanchez in particular) would be hard to get rid of. We knew that we wouldn't be signing six or more players this summer given our manager explicitly said so. We knew securing premium players would be made harder with no CL football (yet again). Finally, we knew that we had been unable to secure the targeted number of signings in the last couple of summer windows, with no guarantee that wouldn't be the case this summer too.

One assumed all of this was being taken into account when our manager publicly stated that rebuilding the team was going to take several years. So what did people actually think the early transfer windows of that multi-year rebuild were going to look like?

Even if this summer went as well as it was practically possible for it to go, we were still going to start the next season in dire straits. So it shouldn't be surprised that the start of pre-season also sees us in dire straits. We're gonna be here for a while.

That's what makes it tedious to read variations of the same threads, the same complaints and the same tone of surprised chagrin and indignation
We already know. It's like trying to escape a burning building with the guy next to you stopping every 30 seconds to complain that it's getting hot.

 

[Sweet Square]

I'm fine with realistic discussions and debates. And in reality we are a shit show. We can't get top targets at reasonable fees, we still can't identify our prime centre back target and tie him down, we can't hire a DoF, we can't get rid of the deadweight, etc.

Sure there are some positives, like Ole's optimism and welcome style of play, the two players we have signed are certainly steps in the right direction and so on. But going to pre-season noting all of the above is quite a dire state of affairs. We don't know who our mainstay CB pairing will be, we don't know who our 9 is, we don't know whether Pogba stays or goes, haven't plugged the central midfield gap, the right wing gap and so on. In 1 years time DDG could be out. Pogba will almost certainly be out. Do you think we'll plug these problems with a 1 year headstart? I'm unsure - just look at what we did with Maguire last season. Took a pass and now return with our tail between our legs

What discussion and debate ? The OP is just him having a moan(along with some pictures)that the club isn't signing the player he wants aka "why isn't Manchester United copying my manager mode on FIFA'' argument.

Everything that can be said about the current issues at the club has already been said.

When the season ended we knew we had glaring weaknesses in the team already. We knew that there was a strong possibility that any/all of Pogba, De Gea and Lukaku would want to leave. We knew that Herrrera was definitely gone. We knew useless players on big money (Sanchez in particular) would be hard to get rid of. We knew that we wouldn't be signing six or more players this summer given our manager explicitly said so. We knew securing premium players would be made harder with no CL football (yet again). Finally, we knew that we had been unable to secure the targeted number of signings in the last couple of summer windows, with no guarantee that wouldn't be the case this summer too.

One assumed all of this was being taken into account when our manager publicly stated that rebuilding the team was going to take several years. So what did people actually think the early transfer windows of that multi-year rebuild were going to look like?

Even if this summer went as well as it was practically possible for it to go, we were still going to start the next season in dire straits. So it shouldn't be surprised that the start of pre-season also sees us in dire straits. We're gonna be here for a while.

That's what makes it tedious to read variations of the same threads, the same complaints and the same tone of surprised chagrin and indignation
We already know. It's like trying to escape a burning building with the guy next to you stopping every 30 seconds to complain that it's getting hot.

100% agree.

 

[red_john]

I have been pretty calm about the whole transfer situation for a while however with the news about Pogba and Lukaku leaving, it has me worried that we are going to be weaker next season. Im certain there will more signings before our first game in 6 weeks.

 

[Slysi17]

I simply don't get people attacking the OP and saying he is a moaner. I fully agree with you mate and making it a priority to sign Championship/Midtable players like Daniel James and Sean Longstaff won't greatly improve us. Before anyone moans at me, I am not against those signings. Its just we should of focused on getting the players we needed for the positions we were lacking first. Plus Ed Woodward/recruitment team don't know what they are doing. Also would our rivals give new contracts to players like Phil Jones and Ashley Young who have shown they are crap and past it. I am not in full panic yet but still need 4 quality players in the starting eleven.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Juliet the dice was loaded from the start.

 

[Shaidabdullah Hussain]

The issue we have is that we still have no DOF , despite the club spewing rhetoric that we are searching for one, whilst at the same time there is a managerial merry go round. Not a good recipe for our recruitment is it ?

I will probably get shit for this but I don’t think we are a particularly attractive prospect for some players atm, especially compared to many CL clubs. And with several of our big players looking to force their way out, it doesn’t look to improve.

On a positive note the new kit is pretty nice !

 

[El-Manos]

We’ll get Maguire & Longstaff but it’s simply not good enough, especially if we lose Pogba.

 

[CallyRed]

Good read. Needs more pictures though.

 

[Bestietom]

City have strengthened so too have spurs. Both will have a strong midfield and this is where we will have to get top players for in the next few weeks.
We had the weakest midfield of the top 10 last season and when Pogba went missing we seen teams like Cardiff, Huddersfield outplay us in this area.

 

[Siorac]

I'm just shocked that some people even bother moaning anymore. I go into every season expecting us to be shit, I'll be pleasantly surprised when (if?) we ever manage to turn it around.

Yeah, crushing disappointment is only possible if you have expectations in the first place.

 

[TrueRed79]

Let's say we lose Pogba and sign maybe Longstaff and another, we are truly fecked. Be lucky to make top 10. Next season could get ugly really quick.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Juliet the dice was loaded from the start.

Then the Glazers bought the club and it broke my heart!

 

[Nick7]