Its the players, not the manager

Tarrou

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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players

it's like we have to have one main thing to blame it on, which is an illogical rhetoric

there are a million moving parts to any organisation and multiple things can be wrong at once, but ultimately if a big company continues to fail over a several year period it's the people at the top who hold the most responsibility

this doesn't absolve others from blame of course, Ralf's tactics were shit and some of the players didn't work hard enough - sure they can be criticised

but if as a forum we're looking for the root cause of our failure, it has to be the owners at this point..
 

KingCavani

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He also underperformed at Madrid when he spent 4 (!) times more than his nearest competition (net and gross) and only one one league in 3 years (when the 2nd of the two horse league was decimated by injuries) and failed to even challenge for the Champions League. In come Ancelotti the following season, and accomplished more in his first year there than Mourinho did in all 3.
Whatever else about can be said about Mourinho - This is utter nonsense.

Mentioning the spending when he was up against what many to be considered the greatest side in history is pretty laughable. And they did not spend four times more than Barcelona or anything close.

They didn't challenge for the Champions league? They went out in a semi final shootout twice.:lol: They were a kick away from being huge favourites against an awful Chelsea side. They were the best team in Europe in 2010.

You mentioned how Madrid got on after Mourinho left but didn't mention that they hadn't made it past the Round of 16 since 2004 before he arrived.

Mourinho set the template for the Madrid sides that went on to dominate Europe. He did a brilliant job there even if it did end chaotically.
 

KingCavani

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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players
These ideas were never mutually exclusive and the players were taking plenty of flak as well as Ole.

Regardless of what happened before, during and after with Ole he was simply never qualified to be manager of Manchester United.
 

Tarrou

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These ideas were never mutually exclusive and the players were taking plenty of flak as well as Ole.

Regardless of what happened before, during and after with Ole he was simply never qualified to be manager of Manchester United.
yeah I mean obviously it's not mutually exclusive, that would be absurd
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Whatever else about can be said about Mourinho - This is utter nonsense.

Mentioning the spending when he was up against what many to be considered the greatest side in history is pretty laughable. And they did not spend four times more than Barcelona or anything close.

They didn't challenge for the Champions league? They went out in a semi final shootout twice.:lol: They were a kick away from being huge favourites against an awful Chelsea side. They were the best team in Europe in 2010.

You mentioned how Madrid got on after Mourinho left but didn't mention that they hadn't made it past the Round of 16 since 2004 before he arrived.

Mourinho set the template for the Madrid sides that went on to dominate Europe. He did a brilliant job there even if it did end chaotically.
And where was this greatest team ever before Guardiola arrived? That's right. Trophyless, and 3rd place, nearly 20 points behind the champions. The fact that they went on to be as dominant as they were with relatively little spending is down to an all-time great manager improving the players he had, and Messi's progression.

Exiting the Champions League without making a single final despite having the most expensive team in world football by a country mille is "challenging"? :lol:

The last paragraph is the most laughable. What template did Mourinho set exactly? The Ancelotti team literally played nothing like the Madrid did under Mourinho. He took the same broken team that Mourinho left trophyless and immediately won a UCL and cup double, which is more than Mourinho accomplished in 3 seasons there.

Try again.
 

ManchesterManchester

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This. Absolutely this. If I was a Glazer I would come out with a statement (or through puppet Ed or Arnold) and say we back RR to the hilt and he can sit any wanker who does not give full commitment. It’s gotten that bad that drastic measures are needed. OGS tried to reset the culture but it’s clear that without the backing of ownership the players still got away with murder. I love United but I am now so sick and tired of the inept and greedy way of management and playing staff.
Same mate, absolutely fed up of the board and players at this point too. Great idea about the statement, they never speak do they? They like to have the manager as the fall guy. it cheers me up to know Ralf is there though. I like the way he gets angry about the performances and has high standards. I’m not even going to judge him on the next 6 months because he’s just been left a mess.

Even if we do terrible atleast Ralf will have assessed all the players and know what we need to buy and who needs to be shipped out on next day delivery. Just as you said, the board need to completely back RR and whoever they hire as permanent manager over the players.

We will see this summer if they have truly changed. If they are prepared to let go of players even if it means a loss or will they desperately
try to cling onto them and tie them down to new contracts because they think they are ‘assets’ (Pogba, Lingard, Mata etc). Obviously they need to get the cheque book out to buy players too, not gonna lie, I don’t have high hopes haha
 

Flexdegea

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if the players win this battle then we are fecked for another 10 years.


It's really that simple.
 

RedorDead21

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Same mate, absolutely fed up of the board and players at this point too. Great idea about the statement, they never speak do they? They like to have the manager as the fall guy. it cheers me up to know Ralf is there though. I like the way he gets angry about the performances and has high standards. I’m not even going to judge him on the next 6 months because he’s just been left a mess.

Even if we do terrible atleast Ralf will have assessed all the players and know what we need to buy and who needs to be shipped out on next day delivery. Just as you said, the board need to completely back RR and whoever they hire as permanent manager over the players.

We will see this summer if they have truly changed. If they are prepared to let go of players even if it means a loss or will they desperately
try to cling onto them and tie them down to new contracts because they think they are ‘assets’ (Pogba, Lingard, Mata etc). Obviously they need to get the cheque book out to buy players too, not gonna lie, I don’t have high hopes haha
The manager could always sell the problem egg in this window if he so desired. Make an example and the rest will fall into line. SAF did it all the time. Pep gets players out without much fuss. Liverpool even get astronomical fees for it when it happens there…
 

Ixion

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The manager could always sell the problem egg in this window if he so desired. Make an example and the rest will fall into line. SAF did it all the time. Pep gets players out without much fuss. Liverpool even get astronomical fees for it when it happens there…
But that can only happen if the board backs the manager above the players. They have not backed the previous managers above players which is why they have so much power.

If Rangnick drops player X and that player then goes to the board and says I'm not convinced about this new manager and they listen what can he do. And our board are incompetent enough for that to happenn.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Whatever else about can be said about Mourinho - This is utter nonsense.

Mentioning the spending when he was up against what many to be considered the greatest side in history is pretty laughable. And they did not spend four times more than Barcelona or anything close.

They didn't challenge for the Champions league? They went out in a semi final shootout twice.:lol: They were a kick away from being huge favourites against an awful Chelsea side. They were the best team in Europe in 2010.

You mentioned how Madrid got on after Mourinho left but didn't mention that they hadn't made it past the Round of 16 since 2004 before he arrived.

Mourinho set the template for the Madrid sides that went on to dominate Europe. He did a brilliant job there even if it did end chaotically.
set the la liga scoring record which hasn't bee broken yet. he was a sensation back then
 

mancsarered

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If this rebuild is going to be Ragnick's vision, he should have full authority and BACKING to sell any of these players who lack the mentality to help change the direction of the club. They should be replaced with young, promising players with a bit of hunger who fit the brand of football Ralf wants at Old Trafford. I do not care if they've won Champions Leagues, World Cups, are homegrown, etc. BUY IN OR YOU'RE OUT.

If you're worried about results if we replaced these wannabe's with younger, unproven players, feck off. Nothing could be worse than what we're forced to accept week in and week out right now from a club of this stature. It's embarrassing to call yourself a supporter of players who spit on the legacy of your club.
 

Loida

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Your very first sentence is laughable. Klopp was 19 points ahead of Mourinho by December when Mourinho got sacked because of his own incompetence,
Did you consider klopp as successful ? Klopp has like 2 trophies in 6 years and after 600m spent. If that was Mourinho you would definitely call him flop and finished , if he managed Chelsea he would have been sacked long time ago. People judge Jurgen Klopp with much lower standard than they use to judge Mourinho. He made Liverpool competitive not successful.

United actually has a chance to compete with Pep's city by properly backing him over the year , we knew who won the league when he and pep both has similar level of squad but United bottled it and now being left behind

the reason I never even once thinking he was finished was because he already knew United would struggle that season, the season went just exactly as he was predicted during that summer.

He asked for 5 players and none were arrived. The club then gave him the worst summer window ever in club history instead and you expect him to compete ? Your fanbase literally had a proper manager telling you that the Glazers were blocking signings. But when he gave you that information, you chose to side with the Glazer you chose to back players and the puppet glazer chose to replace him with , where does that lead to ? The ability to assess the qualities of the squad he had vs what competitors has is what makes him a great manager. A manager with such an accurate foresight can't possibly be finished

Overachieved at United, didn't underperform at spurs because that just their level ,they sack him before the first chance of winning them trophy after 13 years.
if you think Conte can surpass whatever Jose did at spurs then i have news to you, he has never outdo Jose anywhere at Chelsea or Inter , it will be the same at Spurs. Just a Mourinho tribute act with less success who turn toxic even faster.

Now we Roma fans are willing to wait till 3rd season before judging anything , he is football manager not magician , Rome wasn't build in a day. If he wanted to get rid of our best players , let him do it , if he wanted to recruit 37 years old unknown player , let him do it., We will 100% back and trust his judgement of what to do with this squad.
 
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Oscar Bonavena

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Combination of lazy and over indulged players, and managers who are either too nice or inexperienced to take them on or who are unknowns in the job on an interim basis so the players know they can take liberties with him. Disastrous combination.

Should have hired Conte the morning after the Liverpool debacle and said to him "you've got the job for the next 2 years guaranteed. You have free reign to draw up a list of players you want chucked out of this club at the earliest opportunity, and we'll back you in the transfer market".

Of course, didn't happen.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Did you consider klopp as successful ? Klopp has like 2 trophies in 6 years and after 600m spent. If that was Mourinho you would definitely call him flop and finished , if he managed Chelsea he would have been sacked long time ago. People judge Jurgen Klopp with much lower standard than they use to judge Mourinho. He made Liverpool competitive not successful.

United actually has a chance to compete with Pep's city by properly backing him over the year , we knew who won the league when he and pep both has similar level of squad but United bottled it and now being left behind

the reason I never even once thinking he was finished was because he already knew United would struggle that season, the season went just exactly as he was predicted during that summer.

He asked for 5 players and none were arrived. The club then gave him the worst summer window ever in club history instead and you expect him to compete ? Your fanbase literally had a proper manager telling you that the Glazers were blocking signings. But when he gave you that information, you chose to side with the Glazer you chose to back players and the puppet glazer chose to replace him with , where does that lead to ? The ability to assess the qualities of the squad he had vs what competitors has is what makes him a great manager. A manager with such an accurate foresight can't possibly be finished

Overachieved at United, didn't underperform at spurs because that just their level ,they sack him before the first chance of winning them trophy after 13 years.
if you think Conte can surpass whatever Jose did at spurs then i have news to you, he has never outdo Jose anywhere at Chelsea or Inter , it will be the same at Spurs. Just a Mourinho tribute act with less success who turn toxic even faster.

Now we Roma fans are willing to wait till 3rd season before judging anything , he is football manager not magician , Rome wasn't build in a day. If he wanted to get rid of our best players , let him do it , if he wanted to recruit 37 years old unknown player , let him do it., We will 100% back and trust his judgement of what to do with this squad.
Overachieved at United despite winning 0 of the trophies on offer that matter? Despite breaking the world transfer record in that time period? Try again.

Meanwhile, Klopp has won a UCL and a premier league in the past 3 seasons - each of which is a bigger accomplishment than anything Mourinho has done on the past half a decade - while picking up a mediocre at best Liverpool team, and not having the luxury to spend as much as Mourinho did on better squads.

Lastly, wrong again when it comes to him not being backed. He asked for Pogba and was given a world transfer fee to buy him. He asked for Lukaku and was given him. He asked for Lindelof and was given him. He kept calling Dalot the best right back in European football and was throwing his you out of the pram about not being able to sign him and guess what, he was given Dalot.

He didn't know how to use any of the players he signed, and the fact that he kept being backed despite the poor signings was precisely the problem.

Now, try again and attempt to articulate the notion that poor Mourinho's 0 out of 9 (domestic cup-league-UCL) and dreadful football was "overachieving" with a stacked squad.
 
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Esquire

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The manager could always sell the problem egg in this window if he so desired. Make an example and the rest will fall into line. SAF did it all the time. Pep gets players out without much fuss. Liverpool even get astronomical fees for it when it happens there…
This is only feasible IF the management is prepared to take a loss on player resell value. And you know we are absolutely inept at that b/c the owners are just bottom line people. I really don’t think the owners realise just how bad things are and this is in many ways a defining moment. If they do not back the manager and jettison the bad eggs, or be prepare the just freeze them out of the team and take the financial hit, we will NEVER get back to the top. B/c this is just players FC.
 

KingCavani

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And where was this greatest team ever before Guardiola arrived? That's right. Trophyless, and 3rd place, nearly 20 points behind the champions. The fact that they went on to be as dominant as they were with relatively little spending is down to an all-time great manager improving the players he had, and Messi's progression.

Exiting the Champions League without making a single final despite having the most expensive team in world football by a country mille is "challenging"? :lol:

The last paragraph is the most laughable. What template did Mourinho set exactly? The Ancelotti team literally played nothing like the Madrid did under Mourinho. He took the same broken team that Mourinho left trophyless and immediately won a UCL and cup double, which is more than Mourinho accomplished in 3 seasons there.

Try again.
I can only assume you're a Barcelona fan as this post is bordering on psychotic and I'd expect nothing less from that fanbase. To say Pep spent relatively little is also laughable, he literally spent more than Jose. :lol:

Literally no one mentioned Guardiola. The job Guardiola did has no reflection on Mourinho's at all. What an absolutely nonsensical point to make.

For a Pep fanboy to dismiss getting to a CL semi final as nothing must be the height of irony. A shootout is a glorified coin toss and to act like there's a monumental difference in winning and losing one says a lot about you.

So I guess you just didn't watch Real Madrid at all? Their counter attacking football? The style that under Mourinho broke the La Liga scoring record? You're denying reality.

Genuine psycho. To feel this passionately in your hatred of Mourinho and also Ronaldo in other threads is extremely unhealthy.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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I can only assume you're a Barcelona fan as this post is bordering on psychotic and I'd expect nothing less from that fanbase. To say Pep spent relatively little is also laughable, he literally spent more than Jose. :lol:

Literally no one mentioned Guardiola. The job Guardiola did has no reflection on Mourinho's at all. What an absolutely nonsensical point to make.

For a Pep fanboy to dismiss getting to a CL semi final as nothing must be the height of irony. A shootout is a glorified coin toss and to act like there's a monumental difference in winning and losing one says a lot about you.

So I guess you just didn't watch Real Madrid at all? Their counter attacking football? The style that under Mourinho broke the La Liga scoring record? You're denying reality.

Genuine psycho. To feel this passionately in your hatred of Mourinho and also Ronaldo in other threads is extremely unhealthy.
Throwing out insults and accusing people of not watching what you evidently happened doesn't constitute a response. In all that rant, I have seen a rebuttal to any of the facts I mentioned. It seems as if I touched an emotional nerve.
 

horsechoker

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Players don’t respond to managers they know they will out last
Terrible attitude by the players then. Chelsea responded well to Benitez and Hiddink. It's disgusting considering RR is remaining at the club afterwards, I really hope he unleashes damnation upon this team.
 

KingCavani

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Throwing out insults and accusing people of not watching what you evidently happened doesn't constitute a response. In all that rant, I have seen a rebuttal to any of the facts I mentioned. It seems as if I touched an emotional nerve.
:lol:
 

Esquire

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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players

it's like we have to have one main thing to blame it on, which is an illogical rhetoric

there are a million moving parts to any organisation and multiple things can be wrong at once, but ultimately if a big company continues to fail over a several year period it's the people at the top who hold the most responsibility

this doesn't absolve others from blame of course, Ralf's tactics were shit and some of the players didn't work hard enough - sure they can be criticised

but if as a forum we're looking for the root cause of our failure, it has to be the owners at this point..
I don’t think it has to do with irrational fans or shifting sentiment. It’s just that even after a change in manager there has been no upturn. The tactics have a lot to do with it but it is as clear as day that a lot of players are not giving their all. You are right there are so many things wrong at the club but the players need to be called out and a lot of them need to be moved on. And you are right that the root cause is the wholly greedy and incompetent ownership. Anyone can see that there is no accountability because the management imposes none on their “assets”. Where the real frustration lies is that things will not get better as long as the Glazers are in charge. If they were smart they would back RR and go with a clear out. But they won’t as it would cost too much.
 

Redlyn

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I think it's not possible to absolve the managers performance. If team shape, tactics are wrong or underperforming players are getting picked it's on the manager.

I think it's a bit of a cop out to lay full blame on the players. They have their role but for me ultimately it's on the manager.
 

horsechoker

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I think it's not possible to absolve the managers performance. If team shape, tactics are wrong or underperforming players are getting picked it's on the manager.

I think it's a bit of a cop out to lay full blame on the players. They have their role but for me ultimately it's on the manager.
The thing is these players have been turning in shite for months while RR has had 5 games, there are certain things RR has to take the blame for like the formation, subbing off Greenwood etc. but if the players don't run and can't pass the ball, what can RR do in such a short period of time?
 

Lee565

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If we had appointed Mourinho after fergie left we would not be talking about this and if we had appointed conte after Mourinho left we would not be talking about this.

This comes down to those doing the recruitment of managers, did nobody do their homework in regards to researching how ragnick sets his teams up formation wise and tactically because surely they would have had reservations as to whether he would have been a good fit for the squad we have.
 

RedorDead21

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Until the players are in the top 3 for all running stats it’s pretty impossible to condemn the manager. We know our players don’t like running. All stats show that. All manager comments when they take over show this. Now running alone won’t win football matches but it is imperative in the system out manager wants to play. If we have players who think they’ll not reach the top 3 levels for running, for no other reason, they need to be sold and replaced with one capable of achieving that. I can basically fail at any proven process by putting low effort rates in….I can prove it’s impossible to pedal a bike by simply not peddling. We have young players Not running. I wouldn’t even give them another game to put it right before one of them pays the price for it.
 

Redlyn

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The thing is these players have been turning in shite for months while RR has had 5 games, there are certain things RR has to take the blame for like the formation, subbing off Greenwood etc. but if the players don't run and can't pass the ball, what can RR do in such a short period of time?
How about not set them up in a manner to concede the most shots at OT since 2004 (or whatever that stat was).

We are not ready/able, physically or personnel wise to play the ideal way Ralph wants so he needs to adapt and find a middle ground. Let's hope he can show some flexibility in the coming games.
 

VidaRed

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This player power needs to be rectified and the managers authority restored. Unless that happens nothing can improve, no matter who the manager is.


 

MalaysianRed7

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Not sure how that constitutes a rebuttal to that post. He's underperformed at Chelsea, when he left them in a relegation battle after winning only 1 major trophy in 3 years with a world class squad in a weak premier League after Ferguson retired and prior to Pep joining.

He also underperformed at Madrid when he spent 4 (!) times more than his nearest competition (net and gross) and only one one league in 3 years (when the 2nd of the two horse league was decimated by injuries) and failed to even challenge for the Champions League. In come Ancelotti the following season, and accomplished more in his first year there than Mourinho did in all 3.

Like it or not, that's underperforming.
He only had two full seasons at Chelsea, in which time he won two trophies. You can’t just discount the Carabao Cup like the it’s the Community Shield. For instance, I’d take that every day of the week at United. Also, however much he spent at Madrid, two major trophies, one cup final and three CL semi finals can’t be constituted as failure. That just isn’t fair.

If we’re talking about real failures, it would be his time here, at Spurs and most likely at Roma.
 

Sky1981

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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players

it's like we have to have one main thing to blame it on, which is an illogical rhetoric

there are a million moving parts to any organisation and multiple things can be wrong at once, but ultimately if a big company continues to fail over a several year period it's the people at the top who hold the most responsibility

this doesn't absolve others from blame of course, Ralf's tactics were shit and some of the players didn't work hard enough - sure they can be criticised

but if as a forum we're looking for the root cause of our failure, it has to be the owners at this point..
Because blaming Rangnick after 5 games in, is a show of childish tantrum. By all means not all managers are good, and even if Rangnick turns out to be a dud you don't do that 5 games in. And with his pedigree as gegenpress founder, he should be given respect and some benefit of doubt. Who are this bunch of collectives failures to say Rangnick method will not work? That's arrogance and petulance of the highest order, they're just a perenial bottler who never won shits for a good few years. It's one thing calling your manager shit if you're a multi medal all conquering veterans Like Xavi, or Ronaldo, or Pirlo, but our squad? They have no rights to call any manager suck.

If they've kept quiet I might give them the benefit of doubt that maybe Rangnick isn't that good after all, but coming with guns blazing 5 games in, there's no doubt in my mind they're the bad apples. And considering they kept quiet about the four previous managers who turns out to be dud, maybe this time we actually find a good manager, because now at least they're complaining.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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He only had two full seasons at Chelsea, in which time he won two trophies. You can’t just discount the Carabao Cup like the it’s the Community Shield. For instance, I’d take that every day of the week at United. Also, however much he spent at Madrid, two major trophies, one cup final and three CL semi finals can’t be constituted as failure. That just isn’t fair.

If we’re talking about real failures, it would be his time here, at Spurs and most likely at Roma.
I can, though, because we aren't talking about small teams with limited bugets. The Carabao cup isn't what top managers strive to win. It isn't a top trophy and while you're free to count it as a major trophy, others might not put as much stock into it.

He started 3 seasons at Chelsea. The fact that he didn't finish the 3rd was because he had Chelsea in a relegation battle, with 15 points from 17 matches played by December. Why would I ignore that and only talk about the full 2 seasons he had at Chelsea?

And you can't "set aside" money spent. The money spent is precisely the point. If he were managing Leicester City, the expectations would be different because he wouldn't have as expensive a squad. A manager who spends 4 times as much as another is expected to win more. You can't just cast aside money as if it doesn't matter.

At Madrid, he spent 4 times as much as his nearest competition (net) in his first year. He had 3 years there, failed to make a single Champions League final (after which Ancelotti came in and immediately won the Champions League and cup double), and left them trophyless despite having the most expensive squad in world football. That isn't a success by any definition.

He started 3 seasons at Madrid,3, at Chelsea, 3 at United, 1 at Spurs, and now another at Roma. He has made 0 Champions League final appearances, has only 2 league titles and 1 domestic cup in his last 10 seasons despite managing some incredible squads and breaking world transfer records.
 
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Laurencio

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I bet this is all leaked by the same two or three sources, either for personal gain or part of club politics. Last time it was Pogba who said he wouldn't stay with Ole as manager, now it's Ronaldo with Ragnick. When do we stop and look at who is dragging the club through the mud by feeding reporters with information that may or may not be credible? I completely believe they have received information from sources within and close to the squad - whomever that is we need to get rid of them - but at this point it looks like a handful of people are deliberately disrupting the team both in the dressing room and in the media.
 

Rossa

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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players

it's like we have to have one main thing to blame it on, which is an illogical rhetoric

there are a million moving parts to any organisation and multiple things can be wrong at once, but ultimately if a big company continues to fail over a several year period it's the people at the top who hold the most responsibility

this doesn't absolve others from blame of course, Ralf's tactics were shit and some of the players didn't work hard enough - sure they can be criticised

but if as a forum we're looking for the root cause of our failure, it has to be the owners at this point..
I've realized that a mistake is never the result of just one person or one incident. If a player loses the ball 60 yards from our goal, one would normally not blame him because other players should be able to cover. When that doesn't happen, players become apprehensive of taking chances - as Daniel James commented on. When Jones made a poor clearance, there were multiple mistakes. First, Shaw should have blocked the cross, then the clearance should have been better and then finally there should be a midfielder in the area the ball fell down.

It's the same with the players, managers and owners situation. It's a little bit of everything. Glazers were here when Ferguson around, but he was so good that he made it work. When the manager is not up to the task, say like Jones makes a poor clearance, and the players are not good enough, like covering the most important rebound area. It's always many things and people involved when things go wrong.
 

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We aren't going to realistically challenge for the biggest trophies with absolutely no midfield. Get in two or three top quality midfielders (a position that has been ignored for years) and it changes the whole thing. The majority of teams we play have better midfields than us. It involves spending a lot more money but we always seem to spend money in the wrong place. We haven't had a top quality centre midfield player in years.
 

Gordon Godot

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We aren't going to realistically challenge for the biggest trophies with absolutely no midfield. Get in two or three top quality midfielders (a position that has been ignored for years) and it changes the whole thing. The majority of teams we play have better midfields than us. It involves spending a lot more money but we always seem to spend money in the wrong place. We haven't had a top quality centre midfield player in years.
The problem is absolutely at root the owners. They are leaches but also absentee landlords, who dont actually care what happens on pitch of if we never win a trophy again. The common factor since Fergie has been Woodward, overseeing terrible managerial appointments and refusing to create a proper football structure to manage the club. I suspect a bit like Ole he's a bit of a fan boy who couldnt beleive the position he was in and refused to let go. But its on him. Why do we pay such ludicrous wages? If players dont want to come to UTd dont sign them. No wonder we have a toxic lazy squad. All his managerial appointments were a terrible, but the lack of any consistent philosophy shows just hwo little he gets football. FOr the fee and wages we paid to Pogba, we could have the best youth structure in the country, and a conveyor belt to match Chelsea and City. With money and good hires its really not that hard. So why didnt he do it? Because hes a baker who loves charts that show how our shirt sales are going up or social media followers.

What we see now is 100% the result of a muppet CEO. The most expensive but unbalanced squad in the world. A semi-DOF who has zero experience, he even interviewed Rio for the role. Seriously? And now we have mini Ed running the show. CLub is a joke and fans need to protest until real football people come in (and not the Utd old boys tribute act). Its not the managers or indeed players fault. No point venting on them.

Heard Andy Mitten on radio 5 last night, another who is to close and chummy. ALways defends Ed by saying CEOs always unpopular. But for all his faults Gill was a good CEO. Woodward is a joke, but Mitten refuses to call him out. Then says how each new manager at Utd moaned about the squad and the overhaul they needed. See my point above, who is appointing these guys or setting recruitment? Its Ed. And new guy unlikely to be any better. As the radio discussion someome else last night said, you would normally hire from within if its been successful. Utd has been a disaster so last thign we should do is hire within, we will get more of the same.
 

mctrials23

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He should be flirted first chance we get, sick to death of the ronaldo circus already.
He never should have been brought back and I said that he was going to be an awful signing when we announced it. The guy is one of the best footballers ever but his best years are 3+ years ago and you couldn't hope to find a bigger ego in the game. If I made a list of players who should be consulted on anything related to the new manager, Ronaldo would be very low on that list.

If he disappeared this summer or even this January I wouldn't care one little bit. I believe his is part of the current problem at United and I think that when someone getting paid as much as he is doesn't behave and is more powerful than the manager then it just results in other players getting their noses put out of joint.

I don't think Ronaldo is the root of all our issues this season. Last season there were huge issues there for anyone who cared to look past league position (which astoundingly very few people did). Ronaldos arrival coupled with the teams around us (Liverpool and Chelsea mainly) actually having fit squads and good managers has put us back in our place and somewhat unsurprisingly the glaring issues with our coaching, tactics, work rate and attitude has just been exacerbated by a poor run of form and bringing in a player whos main allegiance is to his own goalscoring record instead of the team.

I'm honestly getting to the point where I just can't be bothered to follow United anymore. Its not fun. Its not entertaining and I feel nothing for this bunch of players. If this was any other industry, United would be on life support after being run this badly for 10+ years. Clubs with 1/20th our revenue are better run and play better football than us.
 

Gordon Godot

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Feb 19, 2016
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He never should have been brought back and I said that he was going to be an awful signing when we announced it. The guy is one of the best footballers ever but his best years are 3+ years ago and you couldn't hope to find a bigger ego in the game. If I made a list of players who should be consulted on anything related to the new manager, Ronaldo would be very low on that list.

If he disappeared this summer or even this January I wouldn't care one little bit. I believe his is part of the current problem at United and I think that when someone getting paid as much as he is doesn't behave and is more powerful than the manager then it just results in other players getting their noses put out of joint.

I don't think Ronaldo is the root of all our issues this season. Last season there were huge issues there for anyone who cared to look past league position (which astoundingly very few people did). Ronaldos arrival coupled with the teams around us (Liverpool and Chelsea mainly) actually having fit squads and good managers has put us back in our place and somewhat unsurprisingly the glaring issues with our coaching, tactics, work rate and attitude has just been exacerbated by a poor run of form and bringing in a player whos main allegiance is to his own goalscoring record instead of the team.

I'm honestly getting to the point where I just can't be bothered to follow United anymore. Its not fun. Its not entertaining and I feel nothing for this bunch of players. If this was any other industry, United would be on life support after being run this badly for 10+ years. Clubs with 1/20th our revenue are better run and play better football than us.
100% right. Just another sympton of the mess. Crazy wages, undroppable, wants everything through him, throws arms around, forming a Portuguese speaker clique. Money should have been spent on young talent and youth system. Yes he will scor goals but at expense of team function and morale. Fergie interferring in transfer business, much as we love him for what he was he should be nowhere near current football decisions. After the Moyes debacle would have thought board would have learnt. But clearly too stupid to learn. I share you loss of love and enthusiasm. Its such a mess and now all the calling out players, after calling out managers. Its the owners and the people they pay to run the club. End of.
 

Matt851

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Sep 10, 2016
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its amazing how quickly sentiment has shifted on here from most people blaming Ole to most people blaming the players

it's like we have to have one main thing to blame it on, which is an illogical rhetoric

there are a million moving parts to any organisation and multiple things can be wrong at once, but ultimately if a big company continues to fail over a several year period it's the people at the top who hold the most responsibility

this doesn't absolve others from blame of course, Ralf's tactics were shit and some of the players didn't work hard enough - sure they can be criticised

but if as a forum we're looking for the root cause of our failure, it has to be the owners at this point..
Good post

I can understand the focus on the players because so few of them seem likeable at this stage. However it is frustrating the Ralf's tactics are so obviously hampering the team to an extent

The fact is we replaced one manager who wasn't upto the job with another who probably isn't either (albeit being better qualified) and supported by equally mediocre coaches

The players seem to feel like they can get away with not pulling their weight because ralf is only an interim. If his post interim role was confirmed as being something significant then this might change, otherwise why would we let an interim manager lead a clear out