Ivan Toney - Brentford

Leg-End

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I, For One, Welcome our Woodward overlord.
Brentford are getting a lot of credit for “finding” him but I would say it was just good business and Peterborough did what they usually do when they have a talent, they don’t stand in their way and don’t demand ridiculous sums.

I thought a lower end PL side would have taken a chance on him last summer given the fees involved, Brentford’s gain in the end.

He’s a very good all round striker, his style of play will always translate as he moves up the levels in my opinion.
 

el diablorojo

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Ha. Maybe - aren’t you normally constantly hovering around promotion but fumble at the final hurdle? Here’s hoping this time is different for you.
We don't do play offs - never won them in multiple attempts so the hope really is top 2 this time around (slightly ironic as it was a Brentford Director who came up with the idea). We've been a nearly team ever since we got back in the Championship but last year was our first proper flirt with automatic promotion and the young team we had just didn't quite have the mentality to get over the line. This season though we have definitely got a team with a much stronger mentality - never known a Brentford team to have won so many points from losing positions like this one.
 

el diablorojo

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Brentford are getting a lot of credit for “finding” him but I would say it was just good business and Peterborough did what they usually do when they have a talent, they don’t stand in their way and don’t demand ridiculous sums.

I thought a lower end PL side would have taken a chance on him last summer given the fees involved, Brentford’s gain in the end.

He’s a very good all round striker, his style of play will always translate as he moves up the levels in my opinion.
As we do too - I guess the credit goes to us for putting the money on the table and knowing he has the talent to perform at a higher level - but if we don't go up we will let him move on if a Premier League team come in with the value we have placed on him. It's one of the selling points of the club - come here and if you perform you'll play in the Premier League hopefully with us or if not then with somebody else who stumps up.
 

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I, For One, Welcome our Woodward overlord.
As we do too - I guess the credit goes to us for putting the money on the table and knowing he has the talent to perform at a higher level - but if we don't go up we will let him move on if a Premier League team come in with the value we have placed on him. It's one of the selling points of the club - come here and if you perform you'll play in the Premier League hopefully with us or if not then with somebody else who stumps up.
Definitely, I know Peterborough were very happy with the way negotiations went with you guys. Same can’t be said for some bigger names that were interested.
 

RashyForPM

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As we do too - I guess the credit goes to us for putting the money on the table and knowing he has the talent to perform at a higher level - but if we don't go up we will let him move on if a Premier League team come in with the value we have placed on him. It's one of the selling points of the club - come here and if you perform you'll play in the Premier League hopefully with us or if not then with somebody else who stumps up.
Question is as someone who watched/watches them every game, is Toney a noticeably better striker than Watkins? If so, I’d gladly take him here rotating with Cavani. Watkins made it to double figures in league goals by February.
 

el diablorojo

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Question is as someone who watched/watches them every game, is Toney a noticeably better striker than Watkins? If so, I’d gladly take him here rotating with Cavani. Watkins made it to double figures in league goals by February.
In my opinion yes he is the better finisher out of the two, Watkins came to us as a wide player and was eventually converted to a striker when Maupay left. Toney has always been a striker and his movement in the box reflects that.
 

red woppit

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Question is as someone who watched/watches them every game, is Toney a noticeably better striker than Watkins? If so, I’d gladly take him here rotating with Cavani. Watkins made it to double figures in league goals by February.
One thing you will get with Toney is that he will always try to get on the end of everything that's played into the box. The way we play at United, we try to play to feet and little intricate moves around the box is not something that Toney would excel at, and I wonder if we would try to get him to play like that if we bought him, a mistake I think.
Personally, I think if we bought a player like him, then we would have to vary our game and play both ways, intricate moves and also crosses into the box.
Not sure this would happen, as Haaland seems to be who we are after.
 

CM10

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Similar scenario with a lot of players who do well in the Championship. Probably good enough for a move to one of the 'lesser' Premier League sides but unlikely to make it at one of the bigger teams.

You'd think Toney's best bet is staying at Brentford though. This is his first season playing in the Championship and Brentford have a decent chance of promotion themselves.

As an aside, there are a lot of ex-Brentford players scattered around the Premier League at the moment so it'd be interesting to see how they do if they change their model from regularly selling their best players. I think they'd make a stab of it similar to how Bournemouth did when they came up.
 

Bastian

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Three seasons in a row now we have had 24 plus goal strikers (three different players) - there is no fluke in that.

Three completely different players in Maupay, Watkins and Toney.

If I had to choose one of the three as being the best I think I'd reluctantly go for Toney as all three are up there in my all time favourite Bees players. I go for Toney as he is going to score the most out of all of them but also because of his attitude and mentality. He is a born winner and by all accounts an absolute gem to have around the dressing room. A top top player and I hope he fires us to the promised land this season - just massively gutted not to be there to see it!
*ears pricked up*

From those few minute clips he looks very good and fun.
 

el diablorojo

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Similar scenario with a lot of players who do well in the Championship. Probably good enough for a move to one of the 'lesser' Premier League sides but unlikely to make it at one of the bigger teams.

You'd think Toney's best bet is staying at Brentford though. This is his first season playing in the Championship and Brentford have a decent chance of promotion themselves.

As an aside, there are a lot of ex-Brentford players scattered around the Premier League at the moment so it'd be interesting to see how they do if they change their model from regularly selling their best players. I think they'd make a stab of it similar to how Bournemouth did when they came up.
Well we will never not be a selling club realistically and I mean most clubs are in reality selling clubs. I would also imagine and indeed it had been intimated by those in charge of the club that our advantages we have in terms of using a data influenced approach to signings do lessen the further up the pyramid you go.

I would enjoy a few seasons in the Premier League and if we went down again would probably enjoy the ride hopefully back up again.
 

TwoSheds

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It's not moneyball - that's just lazy journalism, you are right though we leverage stats but we also employ traditional scouting methods and are heavily influenced by the players mentality and character. He could have the best stats in the world but if the player is a total arse he is not going to be joining us.
How do you explain Maupay then, he seems like a right little prick.
 

Leroy The Red

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Reckon he’ll be playing in the Premier League one way or another next season. Looking forward to seeing him up there having gone to a few Peterborough games a few years back.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Looks really good. The fact that Raiola isn't his agent means I'd take him over Haaland every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 

el diablorojo

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How do you explain Maupay then, he seems like a right little prick.
Ever met him have you? Cos I have and he is a lovely bloke but on the pitch yeah he might be a bit of a wind up merchant. Just because a player has a bit of spice about him on the pitch doesn't mean that for the team on and especially off the pitch he isn't a top bloke to have around. Where did I say we only sign angels who wouldn't say boo to goose? I mean Cantona - what a player and what a massive positive influence on the club and dressing room, he wasn't a shrinking violet on the pitch was he? ;)
 

Drz

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Adidas should totally fund 100% of the fee to buy Grealish and Toney so they can be on top of the short-sock market.
Make it happen Woody!
Jokes aside, Toney looks quite a handful to deal with for a defense to deal with.
 

TwoSheds

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Ever met him have you? Cos I have and he is a lovely bloke but on the pitch yeah he might be a bit of a wind up merchant. Just because a player has a bit of spice about him on the pitch doesn't mean that for the team on and especially off the pitch he isn't a top bloke to have around. Where did I say we only sign angels who wouldn't say boo to goose? I mean Cantona - what a player and what a massive positive influence on the club and dressing room, he wasn't a shrinking violet on the pitch was he? ;)
No but his manager has

http://www.wearebrighton.com/newsop...-as-he-was-carried-away-with-his-own-success/
 

hungrywing

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Brentford are getting a lot of credit for “finding” him but I would say it was just good business and Peterborough did what they usually do when they have a talent, they don’t stand in their way and don’t demand ridiculous sums.

I thought a lower end PL side would have taken a chance on him last summer given the fees involved, Brentford’s gain in the end.

He’s a very good all round striker, his style of play will always translate as he moves up the levels in my opinion.
Aye; I'm not getting any of the 'he'll be good enough for a lower PL side but not for us' sentiment. He wouldn't look out of place at pretty much any club in the world, even if just as a squad player. Plus there's that Brunian output two seasons running.

As we do too - I guess the credit goes to us for putting the money on the table and knowing he has the talent to perform at a higher level - but if we don't go up we will let him move on if a Premier League team come in with the value we have placed on him. It's one of the selling points of the club - come here and if you perform you'll play in the Premier League hopefully with us or if not then with somebody else who stumps up.
How much is that?
 

el diablorojo

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Ask Thomas Frank what he thinks about him and his time at Brentford.

I've met him you haven't I trust my opinion and our manager's opinion over somebody I've never met in Potter.

Believe what you want - but your point is moot, at Brentford his attitude was spot on. Nobody at the club has a bad word to say about him. I've met him and he was the complete opposite of a right little prick. So that's how I explain Maupay. What he has or hasn't done at Brighton is nothing to do with Brentford signing him - maybe Potter is the prick?
 

el diablorojo

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Aye; I'm not getting any of the 'he'll be good enough for a lower PL side but not for us' sentiment. He wouldn't look out of place at pretty much any club in the world, even if just as a squad player. Plus there's that Brunian output two seasons running.



How much is that?
No idea he isn't for sale :D but i will be north of the Watkins figure that's for sure.
 

Champ

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Ask Thomas Frank what he thinks about him and his time at Brentford.

I've met him you haven't I trust my opinion and our manager's opinion over somebody I've never met in Potter.

Believe what you want - but your point is moot, at Brentford his attitude was spot on. Nobody at the club has a bad word to say about him. I've met him and he was the complete opposite of a right little prick. So that's how I explain Maupay. What he has or hasn't done at Brighton is nothing to do with Brentford signing him - maybe Potter is the prick?
Potter is obviously not a 'prick', otherwise he would not be managing a level above where Brentford are.
But maybe Maupay cannot hack the pressure at a top level team?
Seen it time and time again, a player from a Championship team steps up a level and let's it get to his head.
Not as if Maupay has been rooting up trees is it!?!
 

el diablorojo

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Potter is obviously not a 'prick', otherwise he would not be managing a level above where Brentford are.
But maybe Maupay cannot hack the pressure at a top level team?
Seen it time and time again, a player from a Championship team steps up a level and let's it get to his head.
Not as if Maupay has been rooting up trees is it!?!
Nah just someone who calls his players out in the media like that - top man.

Anyway I can only give you my first hand experience on the matter - Maupay was not a prick when I met him nor from his time at Brentford.
 

TwoSheds

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Nah just someone who calls his players out in the media like that - top man.

Anyway I can only give you my first hand experience on the matter - Maupay was not a prick when I met him nor from his time at Brentford.
I imagine all players show their true colours to the fans of their team tbf.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Potter is obviously not a 'prick', otherwise he would not be managing a level above where Brentford are.
But maybe Maupay cannot hack the pressure at a top level team?
Seen it time and time again, a player from a Championship team steps up a level and let's it get to his head.
Not as if Maupay has been rooting up trees is it!?!
This seems relevant re: Maupay's suitability at the top level:

 

Champ

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Nah just someone who calls his players out in the media like that - top man.

Anyway I can only give you my first hand experience on the matter - Maupay was not a prick when I met him nor from his time at Brentford.
Cool, I met Glenn Hoddle multiple times, had drinks, dinner and small talk with him multiple times, never once did I suspect his thoughts on disabled people.
I still think he's a sound guy, but his thoughts on disabled people is inherently wrong.
Just goes to show how wrong we can be eh?!?
 

el diablorojo

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Cool, I met Glenn Hoddle multiple times, had drinks, dinner and small talk with him multiple times, never once did I suspect his thoughts on disabled people.
I still think he's a sound guy, but his thoughts on disabled people is inherently wrong.
Just goes to show how wrong we can be eh?!?
Guess so, thankfully Maupay hasn't voiced such opinions.

You think he is prick based on whatever you have seen or read and I don't based on my own experiences - nothing more to be said really.
 

el diablorojo

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I imagine all players show their true colours to the fans of their team tbf.
Yeah I am sure he was on best behaviour but still you have your opinion on him and I have mine. Though your original point was related to why Brentford signed him given we look at players character and attitude too. I explained my personal experience of him and the fact those at the club never had a bad word to say about him and his attitude was spot on. You then brought up something about him at Brighton which has nothing to do with Brentford, his time there and why we signed him.
 

Champ

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Guess so, thankfully Maupay hasn't voiced such opinions.

You think he is prick based on whatever you have seen or read and I don't based on my own experiences - nothing more to be said really.
I haven't judged Maupay at all thank you very much, tell me where I have?? says it all that you think I have!!
I'm playing devils advocate in this,
Stop jumping to conclusions,
 

el diablorojo

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I haven't judged Maupay at all thank you very much, tell me where I have?? says it all that you think I have!!
I'm playing devils advocate in this,
Stop jumping to conclusions,
Likewise.

I apologise for not recognising that you were playing Devil's advocate, I assumed you were defending the opposite supposition to mine.
 

RashyForPM

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In my opinion yes he is the better finisher out of the two, Watkins came to us as a wide player and was eventually converted to a striker when Maupay left. Toney has always been a striker and his movement in the box reflects that.
One thing you will get with Toney is that he will always try to get on the end of everything that's played into the box. The way we play at United, we try to play to feet and little intricate moves around the box is not something that Toney would excel at, and I wonder if we would try to get him to play like that if we bought him, a mistake I think.
Personally, I think if we bought a player like him, then we would have to vary our game and play both ways, intricate moves and also crosses into the box.
Not sure this would happen, as Haaland seems to be who we are after.
Looking at this and his stats, I’d definitely take him. If reports are to be believed and we’re favourites to get Sancho but not Haaland, then Toney is a very good plan B. Something like a Chicharito or Solskjaer maybe, a very good striker who can come into the first team when needed. Haaland obviously came from the Austrian Bundesliga as well, which I think we can all agree is a worse league than the Championship. Toney will make the step up just fine.
 

Bondi77

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Is that haircut allowed in professional football....I thought it may be a safety hazard to opposition when heading the ball.
 

Sleigh

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Toney looks a fine player. We’ve been constantly linked to him. After he left Northampton, we had him at our academy but released him.

He’s going to cost £30m-ish now though.
 

Thiagoal

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Toney looks a fine player. We’ve been constantly linked to him. After he left Northampton, we had him at our academy but released him.

He’s going to cost £30m-ish now though.
You sure? Northampton sold him to Newcastle? Do you mean as a youngster? I know Leicester pick up a lot of Northampton kids as there are a couple in their academy from the school I work at!

Fun fact Matt Smith (aka Dr Who) was at Leicester’s academy in the 90’s! In fact I played in the same team as Matt at school and against him (for Northampton) at academy level.
 

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Those are very good numbers, probably enough to get a move to a PL team with clubs looking for a bargain.

Might be worth a punt if the price is right.
 

Carl

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Never seen him play but we should definitely look to the Championship a little more frequently. Not necessarily for players to come straight into the first team, but those that can make a big contribution to the squad.
 

red woppit

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Toney looks a fine player. We’ve been constantly linked to him. After he left Northampton, we had him at our academy but released him.

He’s going to cost £30m-ish now though.
I don't think that's right.
He may have been at Leicester's academy before Northampton Town's, but you didn't get him from Northampton Town's.
I think he is the youngest player to feature for Northampton Town in a competitive match when he was 16.
The Cobblers, I believe, were struggling at the time, and it was odds on that Toney would be picked up by a bigger club. I think he was only 19 when he went to Newcastle, and hardly featured for them, and bumbled around a few lower league sides on loan before Peterborough (Northampton Town's biggest rivals) took a punt, and it paid of. Now some are talking of this Townie boy going to the biggest club in the world (in my opinion).
With Toney you would get that desire to get into the box and attempt to get on the end of everything that's thrown in there, a bit like a Calvert-Lewin (who, ironically, was at Northampton on loan three or four years ago).
Personally I don't think United will be looking to bring Toney in, as Haaland is the prime target, but could be worth a punt, but I'm sure Hugill will have something to say about that.
 
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CM10

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Well we will never not be a selling club realistically and I mean most clubs are in reality selling clubs. I would also imagine and indeed it had been intimated by those in charge of the club that our advantages we have in terms of using a data influenced approach to signings do lessen the further up the pyramid you go.

I would enjoy a few seasons in the Premier League and if we went down again would probably enjoy the ride hopefully back up again.
Perhaps, but I think if Brentford were to get promoted there would have to be some kind of shift from freely letting your best assets go every season.

It's one thing to do it in the Championship where it's a little easier to replace players and the departing players are moving up a level but it's another thing to regularly sell to a league rival.
 

SadlerMUFC

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this is the type of player that most united supporters will turn their nose at and say "he's not United quality" because he plays for a Championship team, but then want him when he makes a move to a premier league team and all of a sudden costs 100m
 

One Night Only

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this is the type of player that most united supporters will turn their nose at and say "he's not United quality" because he plays for a Championship team, but then want him when he makes a move to a premier league team and all of a sudden costs 100m
This post reminds me of copying my mates homework and changing a few things around.