I think we’ve got at least one more title challenge before we drop off a bit. Klopp also changes the way we play from season to season.
The side we are now is very different to the one we were in 17-18.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The side we are now is very different to the one we were in 17-18.
Hi Mourinho
No you're missing the newly crowned champions thing. The most important part.
Let's say you don't get to 97 points this season, and playing how you have since the restart it's a possibility, does that count as a drop off? You've been poor in cup competitions this year, that's definitely a drop off from last season.
Let's be honest, you've unfortunately been the best team in the league, but no one was expecting the drop off from City to be quite as dramatic.
It's stands to reason that you've won the league based on consistency carried over from last season and City dropping off a cliff.
He's just gotten more and more conservative over the past 3 seasons. What's the plan for next year? A Tony Pulis Stoke revival?
If we end the season in really bad form then I think Klopp has some thinking to do. We're not in a fantastic run away from home at the moment but we just beat Palace 4-0 in our previous game so it's not like it's completely disastrous. If we end up on around 95 points then I don't think you can really call it a drop off.
On City, no I don't think anyone could've predicted that they'd lose as many games as they have. I do think they're in more urgent need of a rebuild than we are though. Fernandinho (35), Silva (34), Otamendi (32), Aguero (32), Walker (30) & Gundogan, Mahrez & De Bruyne all 29. What if Laporte gets injured again? They play better football than we do, but they're as fragile as we are (maybe even more so) to injuries and their squad age. I think they made a mistake letting Sane go as well.
We're all guessing of course but I'd argue we're as likely to compete for the league again next season as City are. One 4-0 defeat doesn't change that. I'm not comparing us to these sides but over the last decade we've seen great Barcelona, Real Madrid & Bayern Munich teams batter each other. Barcelona have put 5 past Madrid, Madrid have put 4/5 in against Bayern at the Allianz, Bayern won 7-0 on aggregate in a Champions League tie with Barcelona. It is possibly for good sides to have a bad result against another very good side. United have lost 5-0 to Newcastle and Chelsea, and 6-1 against City. It happens.
We still score plenty of goals and dominate a lot of our games though. Our stats would back that up. We're constantly coming up against sides who want to sit back and defend deep against us now. We're not as pretty on the eye but Klopp's been justified in doing that because of the results he's had. If he wasn't delivering then he'd be criticized more for the way we play.
If we sign Andy Carroll then I'll worry.
He's absolutely been justified this season, I'm not disputing that. Well, in the league, in any case. For the rest, it's debatable, as your cup runs are frankly nothing impressive.
What I meant is, the way you put it, you'd think he's been reinventing the way you play every season - he's been recruiting well and playing a more and more conservative way every season, relying heavily on athleticism (outperforming the opponents in this regard) and crosses (long ball has been a massive part of your play this season). I'm not being facetious, what's the next step? Realistically, he can't be more conservative than what it had come to. Apart from completely changing the engine of the team, i.e. your midfield, which is underwhelming at best for a top team, what options are there? And I'm not sure you'll have the finances for such an overhaul.
So what is it going to be? More of the same? If so, I'd genuinely not be worried as an opposition fan (and probably even less so if I supported City), I think you've been outperforming every measurable stat by massive margins, whether it's goals conceded, goals scored and expected points, with the planets (and VAR) aligning for you guys. It doesn't change you deserve this title, of course, but it's unlikely this will happen again.
This is a point that doesn't get picked up on enough, and why you've been so consistent for so long.
Klopp has matured and has his team play in bursts far more than when he first arrived/at Dortmund. It means you're able to retain energy, and really attack in 10/20 minute phases which tend to win you games. It also means teams are constantly wary of attacking you/trying to match you as it'll just invite this response. Klopp's really mastered the long-game, which is utterly annoying.
Some horrific posts on here? It's a manutd forum, what do you expect.
We hate Liverpool, so any excuse to batter them, we will take.
One thing I've noticed about football is, you are only good as your last game. A couple of weeks ago, all Utd fans were crying and all the Scousers were laughing. Last night It all turned on it's head. (At least for one night). That's the crazy thing about it. The game meant nothing really. Liverpool were Champions and City were using this to warm up for the cup games, yet I bet it still hurt so badly for all Liverpool fans to get a spanking.
The old saying comes to mind.
"When you win, no one remembers, when you lose, no one forgets."
I'm not insinuating that you've had a bad season, but I'd say that this season has not been as good as last season for Liverpool.
You've underachieved in every cup competition, and you could still end the season on a similar points total to last season.
I'd call that a drop off from last season. The silver lining is you have the league title (makes me sick saying that
).But you're dead right about City, they hit the pinnacle last season and have a few signings to make before the start of next season, however they could still end up with three trophies, which to me would be a better season than Liverpool's.
I fear for them getting number 20 soon and catching us. Could be already next season.
Ole needs to get the act together and go for a title win.
Ole needs to get the act together and go for a title win.
He has changed how we play though. I'd argue that we're less reliant in non stop pressing now than we were previously. We have better possession stats and control the ball better for the most part. I think he's moved away from heavy metal football after seeing us get turned over by City and Spurs during 17/18. I'd call it a more controlled style of play rather than conservative.
I don't know what he'll do going forward to change us but if you'd told me two years ago that we'd have a side relying entirely on our full backs for creativity and win the league playing that way, I probably wouldn't have believed it. The concern is of course that teams will figure us out (this normally happens eventually), but based on what I've seen from Klopp so far I'm not worried about our style of play right now.
You've had more go for you with VAR than we have this season.
yeah true enough. Football fans in general have short memories.
The funny thing about that is that if you asked any Liverpool fan if they'd rather win the CL and finish 2nd on 97 points, or win the league on 90-95 points and do nothing else of note then they'd all pick the latter.I'm not insinuating that you've had a bad season, but I'd say that this season has not been as good as last season for Liverpool.
You've underachieved in every cup competition, and you could still end the season on a similar points total to last season.
I'd call that a drop off from last season. The silver lining is you have the league title (makes me sick saying that
But you're dead right about City, they hit the pinnacle last season and have a few signings to make before the start of next season, however they could still end up with three trophies, which to me would be a better season than Liverpool's.
If City win the CL and FA Cup, then they will have had a better season than us imo. If they don't win the CL and win the FA Cup, then I'd argue we've had the better season.
But you didn't win it and that makes a huge difference. Keeping players hungry after achieving something big isn't easy. To win something twice, or thrice in a row is harder than to win it the first time. That will be a big challenge for Klopp (assuming not a lot of transfers will happen during the transfer window). I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpool finish 2nd, or even 3rd next season.
I do think there's a good chance City will come back stronger and win it next season but I think we'll be their closest challengers again. I do agree that retaining it is a larger challenge though.
I actually like Klopp the man and really admire him as a manager, but I am always disappointed by his interviews when he loses. He is always so prickly and difficult.
Part of being a great winner if being a gracious loser and he falls down here. You just won the league, come out with a smile and just explain it wasn’t your night .
Part of being a great winner if being a gracious loser and he falls down here. You just won the league, come out with a smile and just explain it wasn’t your night .
Without doubt you're right.
But then if you'd asked whether you'd like just the league or the league and Champions League I know what the answer would be etc etc!
The league was obviously the club's main priority.
I think it's Champions League or bust for pep and City this season.
I for one hope it's bust
All he had to say was " Think we were not it 100% after wining the league for the first time in 30 years. It's human nature".
But no, he totally fecked up what he was saying.
Shreeves actually gave Klopp a lifeline to point that out, but Klopp said his team were at its best, which made him look more of a prick than he is.
I watched take the ball,pass the ball last night, great film by the way, but it always amazed me how humble Fergie was after that Champs league final.
He basically said that was the best team we've ever played and that they gave us a hiding. He was full of praise for them, which shows humility and grace when on the losing side.
Klopp has none of that, if he loses a game its usually down to the wind, or the opponent defending for the whole game, or general snarky comments.
Fergie could do the same at times, but he was definitely more of a gracious loser..
He is a terrible loser to be fair. Some of his excuses are horrendous too. Wind, rain, the opposition not playing how he'd like them too etc. It's all deflection tactics I think, to take heat off of his team. He rarely if ever criticizes a player publicly from what I remember.
And that takes some doing?
Ooh err
Yeah, Klopp is a terrible loser, which is fun for fans of other teams on the day - but probably less so in the long run, as that's also the attitude that keeps driving Klopp forward. There would be much more reason for United fans to be happy if Klopp hadn't cared about yesterday's match and had been all like 'I don't care, we are champions!' That's the kind of complacency that kills teams. Also, if Liverpool now totally stink out the place out for the remainder of the season, the media criticism that will come with that might be the motivation they need to return to their best next season. It will also further motivate Klopp to keep tinkering with his setup, to iron out the issues that have been coming to light in the second half of the season. Be careful what you wish for, I'd say.
It sems like AFCON 2021 will be postponed, so for Liverpool to fail, I think the hope should rather be that they go all out for a quadruple next year. They played weak teams in pretty much every cup game this season (not in the CL against Atlético, of course). If they want to win more next season, they'll have to play stronger teams and will tire and possibly injure their key players more.
It sems like AFCON 2021 will be postponed, so for Liverpool to fail, I think the hope should rather be that they go all out for a quadruple next year. They played weak teams in pretty much every cup game this season (not in the CL against Atlético, of course). If they want to win more next season, they'll have to play stronger teams and will tire and possibly injure their key players more.
Yes.
None of it unheard of when talking about top managers. Even great managers - and even historically great ones.
I vaguely remember - it seems like a lifetime ago - a certain United manager who was both an extremely poor loser and very much prone to offering horrendous excuses for this and that. And - yes - much of what he said to journos was indeed designed to draw attention away from his players.
Erm. World, England, Europe.
I thought we got rid of all the scousers?
It is small minded to just boot them out just cause they won. Did we do the same with Citys 2 fans too?
No it's not and there aren't any city fans to boot out.
Just boot them out if they cause any problems.
He's similar to Jose in that case, deflecting a poor performance onto an external influence, heck, even Fergie used to do that too.
What's better on the back of the papers, Klopps team gets hammered, or Klopp blames it on the wind?!
It’s funny. Klopp gets slack for not being happy and not accepting a loss as ok. The day that he doesn’t give a sh*t about losing will be when he’s finishing his time at Liverpool. As far as the match goes, what team wouldn’t be up for the PL champions coming in and walking through a guard of honor. Only City could have done this, maybe another team(Chelsea?)would have been up to it and given us a game but not like City. Just shows how far the top 2 are so far ahead of the rest of the league.
Klopp gets flack for losing sorely, very rarely if ever does he say he lost fairly, it's usually an external influence which has caused the loss, not his poor tactics or mistakes.
Did you really expect City to out four past you? I didn't.
I'd say United would have given you a game, especially considering our respective forms!
Klopp raging in an interview claiming OGS and Lampard doesn't receive the same questions about playing youth.
Klopp claiming everyone wants him to play some of the younger kids, but if they lose they get called out for lack of focus.
Well if he played your youngsters AND won (like OGS and Lampard) he wouldn't have to answer those questions would he?
Imagine being a youngster at Liverpool,winning the title with 7 games to go, there's literally nothing left to play for, and you still dont get a look in.
Klopp claiming everyone wants him to play some of the younger kids, but if they lose they get called out for lack of focus.
Well if he played your youngsters AND won (like OGS and Lampard) he wouldn't have to answer those questions would he?
Imagine being a youngster at Liverpool,winning the title with 7 games to go, there's literally nothing left to play for, and you still dont get a look in.
https://www.sport.es/en/news/premie...a-very-close-to-signing-for-liverpool-8024342
According to AS, we’re close to signing Thiago. I never watch the Bundesliga, but as far as I’m aware he’s a creative midfielder, which is exactly the kind of midfielder I think we need. It would likely be the end of either Keita or AOC, though, and I’m not sure how I’d feel about that.
According to AS, we’re close to signing Thiago. I never watch the Bundesliga, but as far as I’m aware he’s a creative midfielder, which is exactly the kind of midfielder I think we need. It would likely be the end of either Keita or AOC, though, and I’m not sure how I’d feel about that.
You made me think of a well known song made famous by a American comedy show.
Oh, missed that, but thanks
To brag about Europe you have to do it in the same season. That's kinda the point?
I guess Watford and Athletico didn't get the memo.