After winning the league and going for the record? No way either of those teams do anything. Credit to City as they do have a great team that just didn’t play consistant enough this year. Shock result yes but they were at home probably angry.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
And they lost their captain and best defender (equivalent of VVD), and had their next best defender in Laporte injured for most of the season. If that had happened to Liverpool and they were stuck with Lovren in defence I can guarantee they'd be scrapping for top four.
Just World and England then? Trying to keep up with the rules on this.
Yeah. Otherwise you've have teams claiming a treble for silverware won the previous season wouldn't you. Bit silly.
For what should have been the greatest moment in the club’s last thirty years, they sure haven’t half made a bollocks of things, eh? The furlough controversy, having a packed home crowd for the Atletico match, their fans disgracing themselves in public yet again in the title celebrations, the ‘Invincibles’ attempt going up in smoke in hilarious fashion, crashing out of the cup competitions with consummate ease and limping over the line with five losses in their last nine fixtures, getting hammered in their first match as champions, all the while playing the most basic, agricultural football of any Premier League champion ever... it’s as damp a squib as you’re likely to find.
No wonder Klopp looks unhinged. Nobody is arsed about them and the ‘everyone’s second club’ myth is well and truly busted. They are the most odious, self-fellating football club in England, if not Europe and the world. I would love to wrestle that title off them next season. They are no great shakes and nothing to fear. We have their number and should we add more consistency and reliability to our game when playing the ‘lesser sides’, we should be there or thereabouts. Bring it on!
No wonder Klopp looks unhinged. Nobody is arsed about them and the ‘everyone’s second club’ myth is well and truly busted. They are the most odious, self-fellating football club in England, if not Europe and the world. I would love to wrestle that title off them next season. They are no great shakes and nothing to fear. We have their number and should we add more consistency and reliability to our game when playing the ‘lesser sides’, we should be there or thereabouts. Bring it on!
Yep. Maybe not as silly as the poster I was replying to who said ‘Champion what?’ just a week or so after Liverpool won the league with 7 games to spare and a few months after Liverpool were crowned Champions of the World. Now that is silly, right?
Champions of the World 
Masters of the universe.
I don't know. Wasn't involved in that discussion. I just noted it's silly to start claiming silverwear from the previous season and lump it in this one.
Champions of the World
This, in my mind, is emblematic of how fans filter the achievements of rivals. Belittling is the ‘first principle’ of tribal banter. I’ve almost certainly been guilty of such behaviour but it’s more stark when you see others doing it.
I’ve been a member of this forum for 12 years or so, in which time Liverpool have won very few trophies - certainly not in the first 11 years.
In that time I’ve been reminded on many occasions about Liverpool’s lack of silverware, particularly the lack of big trophies. I've been on the receiving end of some strong stuff at times, but it's part of the territory and that's absolutely fine. Sporadically, when the debate focused on who have won what, I was told that Liverpool had never won the World Club Cup – which was factually correct until this season. But once that trophy is won, it becomes a point of glib ‘banter’ with the trophy rendered pointless; the goalposts successfully shifted and we all move on with our lives…
But it goes deeper than winning the World Club Cup and the relative merits of such an achievement. The way of never losing at rivalry-based ‘banter’ is to permanently shift the boundaries of what defined as success and impressive. You're never wrong. You cannot lose.
Here’s my journey on this website over the past 5 years since Klopp joined:
- Oct 2015 – Klopp joins: “Yeah, but look at his last season at Dortmund, he’s a busted flush” a line designed to disregard the signing of an elite football manager.
- May 2016 – EL Final: “Yeah, but he just loses finals” Despite visible rapid progress (which was not anticipated in Oct) this line was used to undermine a solid achievement.
- May 2017 – Top 4: “Yeah, but you’ll be found out in the CL” – this despite being told all season that Top 4 was well-beyond Klopp’s Liverpool given the strength of the rest of the Top 6.
- May 2018 – CL Final: “Yeah but Klopp loses finals – he’s been found out again” Despite breaking a goalscoring record on the way to the final the achievement is defined as failure. In just over 2.5 years Klopp had almost reached the zenith of European football and look back to Oct 2015…this wasn’t supposed to happen but it did so let's disregard it anyway.
- May 2019 – 2nd with 97 pts: “Yeah, but you’ll never win the league with Pep at City”. Imagine that being considered THE reason back in Oct 2015.
- June 2019 – Win CL: “You beat Spurs, well done…and you still can’t win a league”. Goalposts shifted again.
- June 2020 – Win PL: “You lost to Watford” a record 7 games to go is no real achievement, obviously but cherry-picked ‘failures’ are placed front and centre as if they, somehow, define the narrative.
My point here, is that the thing Liverpool don’t achieve is the thing that’s focused on…and even if something is achieved (World Club Cup) it’s met with ‘banter’ laughing emoji as a form of deflection.
There are posters on here who have stuck to the narrative outlined above with absolute diligence. Always questioning the achievement while regularly predicting an inevitable downfall. This form of cognitive dissonance is common amongst fans as it’s self-help therapy. Zoom out, get some perspective and you realise it’s just blind optimism and wishful thinking.
The very people who take issue with what I have written here are very much likely to be the very people who have pursued the narrative that ALWAYS places Liverpool as the failure; a perspective that is now so hollow that it’s almost become parody when you read it. If Liverpool don't get 101+ points this season there'll be a queue of posters taking tremendous comfort in this...therapy indeed.
How much longer do you think we'll see Klopp at Liverpool for? As you said, a big rebuild will be needed in a few years, do you think he'll oversee it?
8 paragraphs of hypocrisy, now that is impressive.
I know, right?8 paragraphs of hypocrisy, now that is impressive.
What do you expect on a united forum?
It’s good you won the ‘club world cup’ because we’ve won two of the intercontinental trophies, and when you lot won it they became major honours all of a sudden.
DunnoWhat do you expect on a united forum?
I'm not reading all that
One of my favourite posts in a long while.
What? He has won the CL and PL.
Klopp could blame the crowd or something. The Ethiad had more noise than usual that ruined our focus.
Or say the heat made it hard to press them.
Or say the heat made it hard to press them.
I would say a further 3/4 years but I would be making a complete guess.
What does the “we have their number” bit mean? It’s not like you’ve beaten us this season. City? Yeah they have our number. They can match and beat what we have to offer. United haven’t got there yet under Solskjaer though.
The rest of your post is stuff you say on a weekly basis so I won’t waste your time responding. I know how you feel.
How many times have city actually beaten us when it’s mattered or we had 11 men on the pitch? I can’t recall any under Klopp. League cup final in his first half season apart.
Not really sure how United have our number either considering we’ve beaten them at home in the last two seasons very comfortably and we’ve drawn the two away games.
Not really sure how United have our number either considering we’ve beaten them at home in the last two seasons very comfortably and we’ve drawn the two away games.
Last season.
Sane 2-1
What a fabulous goal that was, but yes I just wouldn’t call it them having our number I’m sure we’ve still won more games that matter between us but they’re an excellent side.
In a couple of seasons time we are going to be laughing at him for saying this as he fails to promote a single player from their academy. Clearly hurting him that the talk of Liverpool’s title* has died down and everyone is discussing United’s talented youngsters once again.
Which begs the question why do you bother coming on here? The whole scenario you describe sounds quite mentally draining and stressful. I mean it couldn't be that you enjoy winding people up and getting involved in the banter could it? I mean that would be a good reason for coming on the site to talk about your clubs recent success to your biggest rival?
They have work to do then don't they as so far the academy has produced Carragher, Gerrard and Trent in all the time I've been alive.
Welcome to the Manchester United forum, arch rival of your club.
Imagine coming on here and crying Klopp is not getting enough credit.
He's won a couple of titles, calm down ffs he isn't the second coming of Christ. United had managers like Mourinho/LVG in the recent past and they get destroyed on this forum despite their incredible histories and Klopp is not even close to being in the same sentence.
He's won a couple of titles, calm down ffs he isn't the second coming of Christ. United had managers like Mourinho/LVG in the recent past and they get destroyed on this forum despite their incredible histories and Klopp is not even close to being in the same sentence.
The important question is are his people ready for Athletico yet?
Owen too. But that's the only other play of note that I can think of
Mcmanaman
Careful, @PickledRed will be quoting you on this in a few years.
And I’ll be laughing at the 180 minutes of League Cup football he’s referencing.
Nico Williams and Curtis Jones both look like players Klopp is trying to push into the first team. Nico's Welsh though (not scouse) and has TAA ahead of him, so will probably find it tough to get a look in.
He's naive if he thinks he can win the league using our academy. It's difficult for players coming through that route to make it at the highest level. Trent is a rare occurrence. United's academy produces lots of talent but how many of those players are good enough to compete in sides hoping to push for a title or a European Cup? Rashford's done well and Greenwood looks like a hell of a talent but if United start competing for title's again it'll because of signings like Fernandes imo, rather than academy products.
In a world with City's and Chelsea's you can't really hope to win with academy products.
He's naive if he thinks he can win the league using our academy. It's difficult for players coming through that route to make it at the highest level. Trent is a rare occurrence. United's academy produces lots of talent but how many of those players are good enough to compete in sides hoping to push for a title or a European Cup? Rashford's done well and Greenwood looks like a hell of a talent but if United start competing for title's again it'll because of signings like Fernandes imo, rather than academy products.
In a world with City's and Chelsea's you can't really hope to win with academy products.
I disagree, both are important. United have a history of doing very well with a mix of academy products and adept signings. We've just been rubbish at the latter post Ferguson. Rashford and Greenwood are the best academy duo we've had in a long, long time. Both are potential world class talents.
When you go through the title winners of the last 10 years, how many had academy products as prominent players in their line up? We've got TAA but that's it, and as good as he is Alisson & Van Dijk were both far more important. Salah & Mane too. City's prominent players have been Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Yaya Toure and Fernandinho.