Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Denis' cuff

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It's partly on him and it's partly on the players. Some of them have let their heads drop and this started when the first lockdown ended. You could see that the levels had dropped a bit.

There are several factors at play but I would love to know whether he is instructing players to try these hopeless long diagonal crosses into the oppositions box. They're always hit high as well so players like Salah and Mane don't have a chance. Shaqiri did this several times tonight and Henderson does it all the time. Does my head in and never results in a goal.

I still maintain that this drop off was bound to happen after the last two seasons. It happened to City last year and now it's happening to us. This drop off has come all at once leading to a horrific run of form we're currently in.

Interestingly this seems to be a common occurrence when reigning champions try to defend their crown:

12/13 - Champions: Manchester United / 13/14 - 7th
13/14 - Champions: Manchester City / 14/1- - 2nd (8 points off of champions Chelsea).
14/15 - Champions: Chelsea / 15/16 - 10th
15/16 - Champions: Leicester / 16/17 - 12th
16/17 Champions: Chelsea / 17/18 - 5th (30 points behind City)

Then City retained it but fell off massively in 19/20, finishing 18 points behind us.

Now we're looking like we're going to finish way off the pace this season.
generally, a fair point, but odd :) that you should pick the one time inthe past 30 years that United failed to win a title for 7 years after being champions, choosing to ignore the multiple, consecutive double titles and triple titles. More to the point, United would have won 7 on the trot were it not for the Drogba offside title and the City/QPR stopped playing title which we lost by 1point and goal difference, respectively. Not exactly a major drop off from the previous seasons efforts. So regal, you have a list of four beyond Uniteds serial winning era. United also competed on both PL and European fronts on nearly all titles, whereas both Liverpool and Chelsea threw in the towel on the title to save their focus for a single minded crack at the CL wins

Of course, the game’s frenetic pace and stresses will see that Fergie’s achievements won’t be repeated in the PL and Liverpool’s unsustainable (suspicious) energies will not be maintained. Remains to be seen if their bubble has burst at both player and managerial level. Even City, with unlimited resources struggle to make consecutive titles. Since Uniteds domination there has been a fair turnover of champions, despite every August, people assume the incumbents will walk it again. They don’t, often, which also supports just how difficult it is to maintain the standard. Something that even most reds never appreciated when Fergie ruled.
 
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Klopper76

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generally, a fair point, but odd :) that you should pick the one time inthe past 30 years that United failed to win a title for 7 years after being champions, choosing to ignore the multiple, consecutive double titles and triple titles. More to the point, United would have won 7 on the trot were it not for the Drogba offside title and the City/QPR stopped playing title which we lost by 1point and goal difference, respectively.

Of course, the game’s frenetic pace and stresses will see that Fergie’s achievements won’t be repeated in the PL and Liverpool’s unsustainable (suspicious) energies will not be maintained. Remains to be seen if their bubble has burst at both player and managerial level. Even City, with unlimited resources struggle to make consecutive titles. Since Uniteds domination there has been a fair turnover of champions, despite every August, people assume the incumbents will walk it again. They don’t, often, which also supports just how difficult it is to maintain the standard. Something that even most reds never appreciated when Fergie ruled.
I was inadvertently highlighting how unique Ferguson’s achievements were in England, so much so that it won’t happen again and hasn’t since his retirement. The age of one team dominating English football is done.
 

city-puma

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The main problem is obviously the manager and their front three. The manager doesn't seem to have plan B while the front three are drying up, one or two of them need to be dropped or sold or replaced in the summer. I'm assuming it's part of football team/squad where you can't keep relying on the same front two (playing 442) or front three for way too long. The front three have been playing together for almost four years at their peak, sooner and later, opposition teams will or have figure out how to play against them. Also not easy to maintain consistency at your peak for so long. This is why Keane rated Giggs much higher than Liverpool's front three, to maintain the consistency in a top level is not easy.
Another issue is that in the past, during the difficult phases of those tough games, they normally had midfielders or defenders scoring the important goals when the front three couldn’t. Now, all dry out in front of goals.
Maybe there are also some mentality and attitude issues. Remember the reaction of Henderson in the post-match interview after he heard our players feel we should win. Arrogant and lack of respect. He might feel the results are granted for them?
 

Denis' cuff

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Jamie Carragher is insane. He’s saying pool may finish outside the top 4. Football world is truly amazing. One can loose the faith so quickly and be so negative in mind in just a few weeks.
you have to admit though, things can change very quickly. After winning 0-7 at wba, anyone would’ve thought it would take a very good side to stop them. But it’s perfectly feasible they could finish well outside the top 4, especially when you look at teams immediately below them with games in hand and Liverpool’s upcoming program. Admittedly a short term view but you can’t dismiss it.
 

Denis' cuff

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I was inadvertently highlighting how unique Ferguson’s achievements were in England, so much so that it won’t happen again and hasn’t since his retirement. The age of one team dominating English football is done.
Looks that way with the physical nature of the game here, levelling out a wide spread of teams. The high finance PL teams enjoy, too. Despite City’s unlimited funds, until some of that changes, I think the title might pass around a few clubs for a while. Maybe not a bad thing. Would prefer a Fergie clone though, tbh.
 

city-puma

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you have to admit though, things can change very quickly. After winning 0-7 at wba, anyone would’ve thought it would take a very good side to stop them. But it’s perfectly feasible they could finish well outside the top 4, especially when you look at teams immediately below them with games in hand and Liverpool’s upcoming program. Admittedly a short term view but you can’t dismiss it.
Yeah, definitely.
but my point is that he is the former, long-serving player of pool, one of several who pool supporters regard as the legend of pool. I think he was their vice-captain as well, right?:lol:
He is really knee-jerking ...
 

RashyForPM

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If anything it just shows how exceptional Fergie was. Retaining the title is very hard and having 3 in a row is incredible.

A lot of it is just psychological, having that desire to go year after year is hard. They’d need freshening up a bit and somehow I don’t think anyone there would actually have the balls to sell Salah / Mane / TAA as we did with Beckham / Keane / RvN / Stam.
Think of their behaviour after the title win last year. Mass celebrations for weeks on end, Klopp and Henderson giving loads of interviews, fans and Pool pundits calling themselves the best team in the world, the mass drop off after lockdown when the title was secured. None of this would have happened under a winner like Fergie. He, and dressing room leaders like Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Neville would have made everyone strictly adhere to the one day celebration before getting back to business right away. This is the attitude you need to win leagues year in year out. It’s no shocker that Fergie won 13 in 21 years.
 

RashyForPM

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You know whoever wins it this year will have a bigger ‘*’ than last season right?

We could’ve stopped playing football after the first lockdown started and still would’ve been crowned champions.

This season you’ve got players missing due to COVID, fixture disruption, no fans then some fans in some stadiums then none at all, rule changes and match day squad size changes and the quick turn around between seasons.

If you do win it it’ll be 21*, if we do it’ll be 20*. Same for City, Leicester etc.
My ass will it. Actually, yeah, if we, City or Leicester win it, the * will come with the caption “Didn’t have fans for any home games, unlike a certain lot who had a 2 game advantage”.

Seriously, the only teams who deserve an asterisk should they win it would be you and Everton.
 

MadDogg

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Think of their behaviour after the title win last year. Mass celebrations for weeks on end, Klopp and Henderson giving loads of interviews, fans and Pool pundits calling themselves the best team in the world, the mass drop off after lockdown when the title was secured. None of this would have happened under a winner like Fergie. He, and dressing room leaders like Giggs, Scholes, Keane and Neville would have made everyone strictly adhere to the one day celebration before getting back to business right away. This is the attitude you need to win leagues year in year out. It’s no shocker that Fergie won 13 in 21 years.
The drop off after lockdown could have happened under Fergie. From memory there were quite a few times that we took our foot off the pedal and coasted over the finish line once it was obvious we were going to win the title, which is one of the reasons our point totals weren't as high as they could have been some years.

The rest of it I'd agree with though.
 

Klopper76

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My ass will it. Actually, yeah, if we, City or Leicester win it, the * will come with the caption “Didn’t have fans for any home games, unlike a certain lot who had a 2 game advantage”.

Seriously, the only teams who deserve an asterisk should they win it would be you and Everton.
Ok, so based on that our title win last season shouldn’t have a * next to it in your opinion?

It’s been an unprecedented one in 20/21 with rule changes, COVID related delays/injuries, no fans for the most part. Huge * next to the eventual winners name, even if we somehow do it.
 

Rob67

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Jota is a big miss, he freshened up the attack.


Thiago holds on to the ball. I don't think the other midfielders around him are on same wavelength TBH, and that means the balls through him are taking longer than usual. I think this actually hampers Salad and Mane who want a quick ball into space.

I think Thiago and Salah are a dichotomy at the moment.
I'd agree with that last sentence........if I had a clue what it meant.
 

RashyForPM

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The drop off after lockdown could have happened under Fergie. From memory there were quite a few times that we took our foot off the pedal and coasted over the finish line once it was obvious we were going to win the title, which is one of the reasons our point totals weren't as high as they could have been some years.

The rest of it I'd agree with though.
Meant them carrying it on to this season as well. We never dropped below 3rd in any of Fergie’s seasons after winning it. If we started slowly, he’d either give them a rocket or find another way to boost performance level, like when some were sent for surgery in 2002. He knew how to win leagues every year. And this is ignoring his greatest trait - rebuilding every four years, going from great team to great team simply by blooding youth and magnificent recruitment. This is why we won leagues, and I hope Ole can bring it back.
 

RashyForPM

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Ok, so based on that our title win last season shouldn’t have a * next to it in your opinion?

It’s been an unprecedented one in 20/21 with rule changes, COVID related delays/injuries, no fans for the most part. Huge * next to the eventual winners name, even if we somehow do it.
Honestly, I signed up to the Caf in June right after you won the league, and you can check - I never said there should be an asterisk next to your name because you had the 20+ point gap. As I said though, at the end of the day, football is played on the pitch, so whoever wins it this season has done so deservedly. Just that considering you Scousers had two games each with fans, maybe there actually should be an asterisk next to your name this season if you somehow do it!
 

pav1790

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I was inadvertently highlighting how unique Ferguson’s achievements were in England, so much so that it won’t happen again and hasn’t since his retirement. The age of one team dominating English football is done.
Only a matter of time, la. ;)
 

Real Name

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Dunno what you’re on about mate:

06/07 Champions: Manchester United - 07/08 - 1st
07/08 Champions: Manchester United - 08/09 - 1st
08/09 Champions: Manchester United - 09/10 - 2nd (1 point off)
10/11 Champions: Manchester United - 11/12 - 2nd (Level points)
12/13 Champions: Manchester United - 13/14 - MOYESt


You won the league one year and then you burnt out. A great team and manager can win it 5 out of 7 seasons with just 1 point in total the difference across the other two seasons.
We were so close to 7 in a row.
 

Real Name

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Ole
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Moyes

His next 3 games. You couldn't make this up really, United lives in his head :lol:

Sir Alex Ferguson bribed the FA.
C O R R U P T.
You can bet Mourinho is kicking his lips at the thought of having a chance to further prolonging their pain.
 

Dansk

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Klopps methods may have caught up with them it was impossible to sustain the way they were playing forever.
The same thing happened at Dortmund, didn't it? They were incredible for a few years, and then they crashed and burned and he left. After his departure, some of their players revealed that he had pushed them far beyond the boundaries of a sustainable routine. If that's accurate and he's doing it again at Liverpool, it's a big chip in his achievements. Pushing players harder than what's healthy and responsible, and then fecking off once they burn out, is a damning indictment.

If I become the manager at my place of work and I force everyone to work overtime every day and wear themselves out, I might be able to claim that I've improved the efficiency of the staff and increased profits; but when they all begin to quit or go on sick leave because I've pushed them harder than people can be expected to handle in the long term, I wouldn't be a good manager, I'd be a slavedriver who violated union regulations and eventually gets fired when Corporate finds out I'm destroying the business.
 

Cascarino

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The same thing happened at Dortmund, didn't it? They were incredible for a few years, and then they crashed and burned and he left. After his departure, some of their players revealed that he had pushed them far beyond the boundaries of a sustainable routine. If that's accurate and he's doing it again at Liverpool, it's a big chip in his achievements. Pushing players harder than what's healthy and responsible, and then fecking off once they burn out, is a damning indictment.

If I become the manager at my place of work and I force everyone to work overtime every day and wear themselves out, I might be able to claim that I've improved the efficiency of the staff and increased profits; but when they all begin to quit or go on sick leave because I've pushed them harder than people can be expected to handle in the long term, I wouldn't be a good manager, I'd be a slavedriver who violated union regulations and eventually gets fired when Corporate finds out I'm destroying the business.
I think it's hard to argue he hasn't done a good job. Won in Europe and then delivered their first ever premier league title. The truth is most managers have a cycle, and it's hard to keep achieving success at the same club after a certain period. Ferguson is a bit of an exception, it's almost impossible imo to deliver sustained success over decades at the same club.
 

Tarrou

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Jamie Carragher is insane. He’s saying pool may finish outside the top 4. Football world is truly amazing. One can loose the faith so quickly and be so negative in mind in just a few weeks.
whats insane about that? they could

they probably won't but if there form doesn't pick up soon they'll be worried about it
 

RedDevil@84

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Jamie Carragher is insane. He’s saying pool may finish outside the top 4. Football world is truly amazing. One can loose the faith so quickly and be so negative in mind in just a few weeks.
Trying to reverse jinx. Or hope Klopp gets fired up by his and Souness words
 

Bebestation

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Klopp going for Thiago was a sign of his upcoming weakness.

The first team he built in the first 4 years could not hold Thiago.

Now he needs that easier route, a midfielder who can pick a pass which he never needed before. Hendersons, widjanldums, Milners, keita, Firmino - nothing like a thiago for ages and winning all the trophies.

He will be gone at the end of this season of next season.
 

Berbasbullet

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Are they really ? They were laying siege to Burnley and I remember 3 - maybe 4 big chances
Burnley were hanging on for quite a while though. I think they will start winning games soon enough, question is whether the gap is now too big though?
 

Brad2020

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Reading Jurgen Klopp's recent interview, it sounds like he's leaning to packing it in at Liverpool in 2024, and taking a year or two off.

I wouldn't be surprised afterwards if he takes a job with Bayern Munich, less league competition, and a somewhat unlimited budget. He could build a team there that dominates for a decade.
 
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You know whoever wins it this year will have a bigger ‘*’ than last season right?

We could’ve stopped playing football after the first lockdown started and still would’ve been crowned champions.

This season you’ve got players missing due to COVID, fixture disruption, no fans then some fans in some stadiums then none at all, rule changes and match day squad size changes and the quick turn around between seasons.

If you do win it it’ll be 21*, if we do it’ll be 20*. Same for City, Leicester etc.
last year will always be the * title. In subsequent years, we know there’s a pandemic, and we have mitigation against it.

look at it objectively, and the only title Liverpool win in 30 years comes with a one in a 100 year pandemic. It’s something to smile about!
 

matt23

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You know whoever wins it this year will have a bigger ‘*’ than last season right?

We could’ve stopped playing football after the first lockdown started and still would’ve been crowned champions.

This season you’ve got players missing due to COVID, fixture disruption, no fans then some fans in some stadiums then none at all, rule changes and match day squad size changes and the quick turn around between seasons.

If you do win it it’ll be 21*, if we do it’ll be 20*. Same for City, Leicester etc.
If we win it after an unprecedented long break in fixtures, or we're randomly allowed fans in our stadium when others aren't, then you might have a point.
 

Swiss Cheese

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Jamie Carragher is insane. He’s saying pool may finish outside the top 4. Football world is truly amazing. One can loose the faith so quickly and be so negative in mind in just a few weeks.
in fairness he is an Everton fan.
 

Judge Red

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The only reason for an asterisk against this season would be if Liverpool win it after having the unfair advantage of fans in their stadium back when they were 1st. But that’s a moot point now.
 

Klopper76

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last year will always be the * title. In subsequent years, we know there’s a pandemic, and we have mitigation against it.

look at it objectively, and the only title Liverpool win in 30 years comes with a one in a 100 year pandemic. It’s something to smile about!
But we’d basically won the league before it all started going into lockdown. We didn’t even have to kick another ball in the end because of City dropping points.

This is the * season.
 

VeevaVee

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This season should definitely have an *.

Because it's a harder season. The * should be gold.

Unless Liverpool win it, because of the fans, obviously.
 

Feed Me

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But we’d basically won the league before it all started going into lockdown. We didn’t even have to kick another ball in the end because of City dropping points.

This is the * season.
Man, I’ve seen you post this various times since Burnley turned you over. You must be hurting hard.

:lol:
 

Klopper76

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This season should definitely have an *.

Because it's a harder season. The * should be gold.

Unless Liverpool win it, because of the fans, obviously.
Of course you understand that my completely unbiased opinion is the opposite.
 

Klopper76

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Man, I’ve seen you post this various times since Burnley turned you over. You must be hurting hard.

:lol:
I responded to someone else’s comment about it, that’s all.

Of course if we win it from here I’ll be back to delete some posts.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Ive said it various times this season and I’ll say it again. Klopps ran them into the ground.
You’re beginning to see the same with Hassenhüttl at Saints as well with an injury list that is piling up. These balls to the walls for 90 mins tactics aren’t good on the players over multiple seasons.