Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Hughie77]

I thought we set up just right against them, if we give there front 3 the room for there wing backs to find them, would have been suicidal , surely many teams have nullified us and other teams by playing a way to stop the other.
I cannot understand klopp having a moan about being defensive!

It's just that he was out thought especially in 1st half, pools CM are not that creative, everyone knows it so does klopp, his wing backs do most of the damage, but for a unblocked cross , they would have got 0 points.

I really thought we would get rolled over easy, I'm glad I was wrong. Hope this performance is a stepping stone for more.
Klopp had a go at everyone in technical area all game, only because he could see like most of us it wasn't working for his team. Not until he made the changes in there CM..

 

[Hughie77]

I was huge fan of Jose Mourinho until he began his customary process of systematically engineering his departure from the club he no longer wishes to be a part of.

It was fun watching him do it at Chelsea, Juve and Madrid. Not quite so enjoyable when he did it to us though.

Agree, I like him as a Manager, but he burns to many bridges at the clubs he's been at. His problems I think with the board was they gave him the cash , but he along with previous managers mad errors in transfer market, they would not correct.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Are you really upset because people are more sympathetic with a club legend with far less managerial experience? Was it really harsh for us fans to have expected more from a world class manager like Mourinho, after letting him spend over 300m?

I would rather judge a manager on results and his past achievements as a manager. Why should a club legend get more time just because he’s associated to the club? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Random Task]

Agree, I like him as a Manager, but he burns to many bridges at the clubs he's been at. His problems I think with the board was they gave him the cash , but he along with previous managers mad errors in transfer market, they would not correct.

And we're still paying for those errors in the transfer market now.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I was huge fan of Jose Mourinho until he began his customary process of systematically engineering his departure from the club he no longer wishes to be a part of.

It was fun watching him do it at Chelsea, Juve and Madrid. Not quite so enjoyable when he did it to us though.

And yes I agree with you on that.

But I still blame Woodward for the whole situation. Extends his contract for no reason before the summer. Had he given him a CB maybe he wouldn’t have reacted like he did. Jose also confirmed Fred wasn’t his signing, so £50m was spent on a player the manager didn’t want. He then didn’t allow Jose to get CB for £70m including Maguire who we paid £80m 12 months later.

 

[Pexbo]

I actually think he’s pissed off because he knows Solskjaer got his tactics right and he’s worried other teams will look to replicate.

Liverpool really struggle for creativity when you nullify their fullbacks and use a third centre back to help deal with the diagonal ball when they play from deep or step up when they try to play around the edge of the area.

That’s a massive simplification, but it’s the crux of how we frustrated them.

 

[mariachi-19]

I actually think he’s pissed off because he knows Solskjaer got his tactics right and he’s worried other teams will look to replicate.

Liverpool really struggle for creativity when you nullify their fullbacks and use a third centre back to help deal with the diagonal ball when they play from deep or step up when they try to play around the edge of the area.

That’s a massive simplification, but it’s the crux of how we frustrated them.

I said this to a mate yesterday. Their midfield is quite literally dog shit and if you remove the attacking aspect of their fullbacks, they suddenly look alot more toothless.

 

[Bwuk]

I don’t understand why more teams don’t set up like this vs Liverpool.

If their midfield is forced to control and create they don’t have it in them. It’s all about their front 3 and the wingbacks.

They’ve played the same way for years and no-one ever really forced Henderson etc to create anything.

 

[adexkola]

I actually think he’s pissed off because he knows Solskjaer got his tactics right and he’s worried other teams will look to replicate.

Liverpool really struggle for creativity when you nullify their fullbacks and use a third centre back to help deal with the diagonal ball when they play from deep or step up when they try to play around the edge of the area.

That’s a massive simplification, but it’s the crux of how we frustrated them.

Nullifying their fullbacks is easier said than done. For one, you kind of have to give up any ambition of going forward on the flanks, as they will exploit the space behind.

As for their frontline they do thrive off those diagonal balls, but often they score off of the opposition being careless with the second ball in their own half.

OGS' tactics were spot on but few teams will have such joy against Liverpool even with the same setup

 

[adexkola]

Regarding Klopp's comments, the top sides have always had to face opposition that dig in 2 banks of 4/5. A compliment to his side... But to be truly elite such challenges must be welcomed not scorned. Our sides under Fergie thrived throwing the kitchen sink against parked buses.

 

[Pexbo]

Nullifying their fullbacks is easier said than done. For one, you kind of have to give up any ambition of going forward on the flanks, as they will exploit the space behind.

As for their frontline they do thrive off those diagonal balls, but often they score off of the opposition being careless with the second ball in their own half.

OGS' tactics were spot on but few teams will have such joy against Liverpool even with the same setup

Agreed, a key part of his tactic was having Rashford and James both operating as wide attackers too.

He allowed their fullbacks to spend as much time as they liked in our half and as soon as we got the ball we switched it wide to the space wide for James or Rashford to run onto. It meant their fullbacks were stretched and Van Dijk wasn’t really able to get a handle on anyone because he was effectively isolated and bypassed. It also meant that Fabinho got pulled in behind to cover the fullbacks and that midfield they started to rely on to create was a little thinner.


They’ve got Spurs next, I can see Poch setting up similarly with Son and Son wide and Kane playing that bit deeper.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Regarding Klopp's comments, the top sides have always had to face opposition that dig in 2 banks of 4/5. A compliment to his side... But to be truly elite such challenges must be welcomed not scorned. Our sides under Fergie thrived throwing the kitchen sink against parked buses.

That is the difference between Guardiola and all other coaches in the world. His team is able to systematically break down teams that sit deep through what seems like moments from a "playbook". IIRC we did train on what to do in specific situations against a team under SAF. Klopp, Poch etc are able to make their team play in the final third and the opposition to sit deep but usually resort to crosses or individual moments to score or create chances.

 

[adexkola]

Agreed, a key part of his tactic was having Rashford and James both operating as wide attackers too.

He allowed their fullbacks to spend as much time as they liked in our half and as soon as we got the ball we switched it wide to the space wide for James or Rashford to run onto. It meant their fullbacks were stretched and Van Dijk wasn’t really able to get a handle on anyone because he was effectively isolated and bypassed. It also meant that Fabinho got pulled in behind to cover the fullbacks and that midfield they started to rely on to create was a little thinner.


They’ve got Spurs next, I can see Poch setting up similarly with Son and Son wide and Kane playing that bit deeper.

Would work even better with Spurs, as Kane has been an excellent distributor as of late

 

[RooneyLegend]

I don’t understand why more teams don’t set up like this vs Liverpool.

If their midfield is forced to control and create they don’t have it in them. It’s all about their front 3 and the wingbacks.

They’ve played the same way for years and no-one ever really forced Henderson etc to create anything.

True. If more teams played against them the way we did in the first half they'd win far less points.

 

[Pexbo]

Would work even better with Spurs, as Kane has been an excellent distributor as of late

Aye and if they can’t clone Son like I suggested there they might try Lucas.

 

[shabadu84]

I don’t understand why more teams don’t set up like this vs Liverpool.

If their midfield is forced to control and create they don’t have it in them. It’s all about their front 3 and the wingbacks.

They’ve played the same way for years and no-one ever really forced Henderson etc to create anything.

I think that could potentially be the biggest takeaway from this match. We probably didn't see all that much about United that we didn't already know. But we did potentially learn something important about Liverpool.

Their midfield is relatively low on creativity and they make up for it with the skill and pace of the front 3 + fullbacks. Not every team will have the pace of Rashford and James upfront to preoccupy the centerbacks and keep the fullbacks honest but it's certainly something I hope Spurs were watching.

Edit: ah I see basically everything I said was covered in the posts just before mine. Carry on.

 

[George The Best]

I like Klopp, he’s clearly a brilliant manager with a bit of personality, but he was out of order yesterday. He got tactically exposed against a vastly inferior opposition with all the injuries we’ve got. What would he have done in the same circumstances? Heaps load of sour grapes - thought he was better than that.

 

[Machine Elements]

Wish we had LVG in charge for our big games. Mourinho also had a good record in big games in his second season.

I'm not a bloody Liverpool fan. I'm a United fan. United fans who are celebrating a negative performance like that are the same ones who were slaughtering Mourinho for adopting the same tactics. The hipocrosy is amazing.

Agreed. Not just Mourinho but also LVG got slaughtered consistently by our fans because of the negative tactics and defensive nature of the team. We lacked quality in midfield and attack to play a dominant attacking game. That was the reality of our newly assembled squad but people just didn't want to accept it just because "we spend millions!!!". Suddenly with Ole, it's acceptable to be a counter attacking-team with negative tactics. I don't blame Ole for yesterday; he did what was the best for the team to get a result just like LVG & Mourinho did but when LVG or Mourinho played pragmatically they were rubbish managers for most of our fans. The hypocrisy is real.

Are you really upset because people are more sympathetic with a club legend with far less managerial experience? Was it really harsh for us fans to have expected more from a world class manager like Mourinho, after letting him spend over 300m?

So should we be setting our standards according to our manager's CV? Let's get a League 1 manager and be happy with avoiding relegation then.

 

[lysglimt]

All the very best managers are sore losers though, that’s why they are the best. Ferguson was the sorest loser of them all and it’s what drove him!

Yeah and when Barnsley beat us in the cup - he walked into the opponents dressing-room and shook hands and congratulated every single Barnsley-player. It's possible to be the worst loser and still be gracious in defeat.

 

[lysglimt]

on the VAR issue:

Mané clearly dived against Leicester to win a penalty. No media outrage. No pundits calling it a dive. It was really a case of ‘these things happen’.

Liverpool get one decision go against them and it’s the complete opposite reaction by all. The foul was soft at best, Origi went down very easily and was holding his other leg whilst on the floor. Just because there’s contact it doesn’t mean it’s a foul.

Not to mention that Origin's touch was so poor that he had lost the ball before Lindelöf kicked him.

 

[RedNorseman]

Not to mention that Origin's touch was so poor that he had lost the ball before Lindelöf kicked him.

Exactly, possession was already lost before that very minimal contact from Lindelöf. There shouldn't be any reason for this to cause controversy at all.

 

[AlexUTD]

The injury excuse in that game is just about my favorite excuse of all-time.

Yeah definately

The man is a excuse wizard!

 

[B20]

Im not saying it’s right but it’s nothing to do with Hillsborough or the JF96 campaign. It’s sung in relation to Suarez and Heysel.

I'm sure it's not only a Hillsborough chant (although the 'victim' part came from fecking Boris Johnson in an editorial about Hillsborough). Don't think it's pure coincidence that it gets an airing for the Hillsborough anniversary though. Every person can interpret it as they like, but it's clearly used in reference to Hillsborough by a fair segment of the match going fans.

 

[RobinLFC]

But we did potentially learn something important about Liverpool.

No you didn't, and this has been done to death every time we have difficulties to break a team down. "Oh why doesn't everyone plays like that against them" as if it's that simple.

You learned nothing new last Sunday, we shit the bed at Old Trafford with a freakishly scary regularity and last game was nothing new. Mourinho regularly outwitted Klopp in their H2H matchups yet it didn't stop us from winning a feckload of other games because there are very few teams capable of keeping us at bay for a whole game. I will be really surprised if Spurs get anything from the game at Anfield this weekend.

 

[Treble]

No you didn't, and this has been done to death every time we have difficulties to break a team down. "Oh why doesn't everyone plays like that against them" as if it's that simple.

You learned nothing new last Sunday, we shit the bed at Old Trafford with a freakishly scary regularity and last game was nothing new. Mourinho regularly outwitted Klopp in their H2H matchups yet it didn't stop us from winning a feckload of other games because there are very few teams capable of keeping us at bay for a whole game. I will be really surprised if Spurs get anything from the game at Anfield this weekend.

The game with Spurs might be more difficult than you expect. They have been in a bad shape but will probably be quite motivated to get something at Anfiled. For obvious reasons. Generally, they tend to play well against you.

Once a long winning run comes to an end, problems might appear. When City won 18 games in a row, they dropped 7 pts in the next 4-5 games, IIRC.

 

[RobinLFC]

The game with Spurs might be more difficult than you expect. They have been in a bad shape but will probably be quite motivated to get something at Anfiled. For obvious reasons. Generally, they tend to play well against you.

Once a long winning run comes to an end, problems might appear. When City won 18 games in a row, they dropped 7 pts in the next 4-5 games, IIRC.

Could be yeah, but like I said it would surprise me. And they indeed tend to play well against us but they also tend to come up short more often than not. One win in 15 H2H games since March 2013 after a quick search, and that was at Wembley.

 

[Treble]

Could be yeah, but like I said it would surprise me. And they indeed tend to play well against us but they also tend to come up short more often than not. One win in 15 H2H games since March 2013 after a quick search, and that was at Wembley.

I wouldn't be surprised if they drew that game or even won it. This season is less predictable than the previous and will have more unexpected results.

Last season has taken its toll on City, the same will happen with Liverpool, all the more that Liverpool rely more on being fresh and hungry than City who are a more technical side, have more of the ball and use more rotation. In my humble opinion, Liverpool will experience a serious crisis at some point this season. It's not normal for your key players to play so many games and be up for it again and again. Let's see though.

 

[Bestietom]

Injuries to some of their top players when thy face some of the top 4 could prove to have an impact. They have been lucky with injuries so far, but all these games are bound to take it's toll, and they could have a run of injuries together.

 

[Sassy Colin]

You guys have got it all wrong.

https://anfieldindex.com/42431/jurgen-klopps-tactical-masterclass-against-manchester-united.html

 

[Siorac]

You guys have got it all wrong.

https://anfieldindex.com/42431/jurgen-klopps-tactical-masterclass-against-manchester-united.html

The home side won the first-half battle.

They had a one-goal advantage and their system was nullifying the visitors going forward. But matches aren’t 45-minute events and it appears the United boss forgot about this. With Jurgen Klopp switching things up as he looked for a way back into the match, Solskjær seemed to just hope for the best. He didn’t react to the changes and it felt like a matter of when Liverpool would equalise and not if.

Calling it a Klopp masterclass is way over the top but this part is not wrong.

 

[United58]

Calling it a Klopp masterclass is way over the top but this part is not wrong.

Their goal didn't seem a foregone conclusion, though. I thought they were very poor for a team that's 6 points clear - they looked very nervous and disjointed at times.

Their goal was more down to our terrible defending than any relentless pressure from them

 

[Samid]

Klopps right. How can fans enjoy watching a United team concede 68% possession at home to their bitterest rivals. Its embarrassing. Its like saying we're shit and can't compete. It's the same tactics small clubs adopt when playing the big teams.

Typical scouse delusion.

 

[Bestietom]

Their goal didn't seem a foregone conclusion, though. I thought they were very poor for a team that's 6 points clear - they looked very nervous and disjointed at times.

Their goal was more down to our terrible defending than any relentless pressure from them

If we had someone in attack and were able to get that second goal, we wouldn't be talking about an equaliser now.

 

[Siorac]

Their goal didn't seem a foregone conclusion, though. I thought they were very poor for a team that's 6 points clear - they looked very nervous and disjointed at times.

Their goal was more down to our terrible defending than any relentless pressure from them

Well, they certainly never really got going in attack and didn't create much but the pressure was almost relentless by the point they equalised. We just kept punting the ball forward.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Calling it a Klopp masterclass is way over the top but this part is not wrong.

He's not entirely wrong but he's certainly stretching it as much as he can in order to create his argument. Pereira, Rashford and James were finding all kinds of spaces to run into in the first half. There were more than a couple of occasions where we were one good decision away from forcing Alisson to act (a couple of long shots or some dilly-dallying when a free player was making a run on the right spring to mind). So, if those three were Messi, Griezmann and Suarez, we would have probably been out of sight before Klopp had any time to get things right in the second half. I think it's all based on the miracles that Klopp has been able to perform in the last couple of seasons. What hurts most is that it's the type tactical changes that usually save a manager of a big club against a smaller one when his initial plan has gone awry but the less talented team has failed to take full advantage of it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, they certainly never really got going in attack and didn't create much but the pressure was almost relentless by the point they equalised. We just kept punting the ball forward.

I agree they had most of the ball but I honestly didn't think it was relentless pressure with loads of chances for them. I agreed with Keane, he said after the game he didn't necessarily feel like the goal was coming and it came from a mistake. I agree they had more of the ball but they didn't really do anything with it, I don't remember DDG having to make a save or a defender making a goal saving block or tackle.

 

[Siorac]

He's not entirely wrong but he's certainly stretching it as much as he can in order to create his argument. Pereira, Rashford and James were finding all kinds of spaces to run into in the first half. There were more than a couple of occasions where we were one good decision away from forcing Alisson to act (a couple of long shots or some dilly-dallying when a free player was making a run on the right spring to mind). So, if those three were Messi, Griezmann and Suarez, we would have probably been out of sight before Klopp had any time to get things right in the second half. I think it's all based on the miracles that Klopp has been able to perform in the last couple of seasons. What hurts most is that it's the type tactical changes that usually save a manager of a big club against a smaller one when his initial plan has gone awry but the less talented team has failed to take full advantage of it.

I mean, he explicitly says that we had the better of the first half. And I do agree with the notion that we just seemed content to try and weather the storm without reacting to the changes they made.

 

[Siorac]

I agree they had most of the ball but I honestly didn't think it was relentless pressure with loads of chances for them. I agreed with Keane, he said after the game he didn't necessarily feel like the goal was coming and it came from a mistake. I agree they had more of the ball but they didn't really do anything with it, I don't remember DDG having to make a save or a defender making a goal saving block or tackle.

I mostly agree with that, my issue is that a mistake like that is almost bound to happen when you completely give up on trying to hold on to the ball. Yeah, they weren't creating chance after chance but we invited pressure a bit too much without offering any threat on the counter.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I mean, he explicitly says that we had the better of the first half. And I do agree with the notion that we just seemed content to try and weather the storm without reacting to the changes they made.

I know but we weren't just better. They were dreadful. The tactics were bad, he hadn't prepared anything against tactics in which our two forwards are attacking the wide spaces although he had faced such tactics before and he pretty much wasted the first 45 minutes. What followed was him repairing his own mess and not a tactical masterclass. And as i mentioned earlier, he has a better side and he certainly had more options than us. And waiting for Young to lose his man isn't exactly a sign of a tactical genius.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I mostly agree with that, my issue is that a mistake like that is almost bound to happen when you completely give up on trying to hold on to the ball. Yeah, they weren't creating chance after chance but we invited pressure a bit too much without offering any threat on the counter.

I agree that we invited too much and should have tried to be on the front foot more. I was screaming at my TV for the players to get a foot on the ball and push up a bit to even just keep possession for a spell.