Jürgen Klopp Watch

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
7,909
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
Flashbacks to his latter months at Dortmund - shattered, deflated, bereft of ideas. I don't see him getting sacked though, he's still idolised there and the owners wouldn't dare risk further angering their fans by sacking him. He could feasibly end up at Bayern though.
Imagine this just went on and on into next season and he eventually gets sacked. Madness. It was obvious Jose and Lampard were going to go at some stage but Klopp, no way
 

Drawfull

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
3,446
Location
Just close your eyes, forget your name
Flashbacks to his latter months at Dortmund - shattered, deflated, bereft of ideas. I don't see him getting sacked though, he's still idolised there and the owners wouldn't dare risk further angering their fans by sacking him. He could feasibly end up at Bayern though.
This is a good point with the ESL damage fresh in fans' minds, would the owners risk getting rid? There'd be carnage.
 

Gazza

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2000
Messages
30,686
Location
The District
Feels like Klopp had misread the room by coming out so aggressively in defense of his team/club. Everyone knows it’s not his fault or his players’ but this is a moment in the game that is bigger than that. He needs to stop whining about it, he is gonna get on the wrong end of the media who up until this point lionize the man
 

Antisocial

Has a Sony home cinema
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
14,654
He should've resigned on Monday using the Super League as the excuse - would've saved himself being shown-up by Steve Bruce today :)
 

Samid

follows Pogue around, fixing his images
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
32,344
Location
Oslo, Norway
From rawk:

6 points from our last 10 home games. Played 5 of the bottom 6 in those 10 games.

3 draws
1 win
6 losses

Absolutely fecking shameful.

21 points from our last 17 league games.

That's borderline relegation form for nearly half a season.
Crazy how Mr. Klopp never comes under any sort of scrutiny.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
12,992
Location
Barry
From rawk:



Crazy how Mr. Klopp never comes under any sort of scrutiny.
I just posted in another thread about this. They'd be 13th on 40 points if they'd had their post-Christmas form for the whole season.

They've lost 11 points to both Chelsea and West Ham in that time, 17 (could be 20 by tomorrow) points to United, and 30 to City. They've fallen from top of the league to 6th, and at one point we're as low as 8th.

It's absolutely laughable how little attention this has had in the media, and it seems almost every pundit and journalist has been happy to go along with the "injured centre backs" line.

a) That doesn't explain why their attack is toothless, and b) let's Klopp off the hook for having just three senior centre backs in his squad, at least two of which are known to be injury prone, after 5 years at the club.
 

Makelele

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
307
I just posted in another thread about this. They'd be 13th on 40 points if they'd had their post-Christmas form for the whole season.

They've lost 11 points to both Chelsea and West Ham in that time, 17 (could be 20 by tomorrow) points to United, and 30 to City. They've fallen from top of the league to 6th, and at one point we're as low as 8th.

It's absolutely laughable how little attention this has had in the media, and it seems almost every pundit and journalist has been happy to go along with the "injured centre backs" line.

a) That doesn't explain why their attack is toothless, and b) let's Klopp off the hook for having just three senior centre backs in his squad, at least two of which are known to be injury prone, after 5 years at the club.
Let’s be honest. He has done amazing with that team and deserves a tanked season without much scrutiny.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
12,992
Location
Barry
Let’s be honest. He has done amazing with that team and deserves a tanked season without much scrutiny.
Does he? He got off without much scrutiny when he left Dortmund after spending half the season with relegation form, and the reasoning then was because he'd done so well. It's happening all over again at Liverpool, and again it's being ignored.
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
15,097
Location
Victoria, BC
Supports
Liverpool
From rawk:



Crazy how Mr. Klopp never comes under any sort of scrutiny.
In those home games we’ve only scored four goals as well. That’s a run that goes back months. Kind of weird considering we’ve done ok away from home in the same period.

He does have a lot of credit in the bank though. We’re not a club that has been regularly successful over the past 30 years so he’s being measured against standards he’s lifted the club to since 2018. Feels like an important summer but it’ll help having Gomez and Van Dijk back, along side Matip and Konate as well. We’ll probably see a younger replacement for Wijnaldum come in and at least one attacking player. I think Firmino is done.

If we go into next season in a similar run of form then questions will be asked and maybe his run with us will be up.
 

Shane88

Actually Nostradamus
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
30,114
Location
Targaryen loyalist
Does he? He got off without much scrutiny when he left Dortmund after spending half the season with relegation form, and the reasoning then was because he'd done so well. It's happening all over again at Liverpool, and again it's being ignored.
Yes. As much as I can't stand him and them, they're missing the world's best defender and had to rejig the team accordingly.

"But that shouldn't explain such a spectacular collapse." Fair but he has won a Champion's League and their first ever Premier League with a 99 point season. That buys you time. Plus I think they get top 4 with their fixture list compared to Chelsea's.
 

Seven Seas Sardines

Full Member
Joined
May 24, 2015
Messages
2,757
Location
Back in Sweden til 2022
I think they get top 4 with their fixture list compared to Chelsea's.
If we beat the scousers there's no way in hell they're getting top4.

Even if Chelsea collapse and lose 7-8 points in 4 games to Liverpool, I doubt both West Ham and Everton will lose 4 considering their games. Even Tottenham will have to lose 2 points and GD. That's expecting Liverpool win all 4 remaining games too..
 

Grylte

"nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
11,436
If we beat the scousers there's no way in hell they're getting top4.

Even if Chelsea collapse and lose 7-8 points in 4 games to Liverpool, I doubt both West Ham and Everton will lose 4 considering their games. Even Tottenham will have to lose 2 points and GD. That's expecting Liverpool win all 4 remaining games too..
Can we please not jinx this more than necessarry?
 

Dansk

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2017
Messages
347
Let’s be honest. He has done amazing with that team and deserves a tanked season without much scrutiny.
I'm the manager of a business (I'm not really, but let's say) and I push my employees to work harder than union regulations allow. For a couple of years, production and profits soar as staff puts in twelve-hour shifts at my command. Then they burn out, one after another, and go on sick leave with work-related stress or apply for other jobs where they aren't being pushed beyond reasonable expectations. Eventually the whole thing implodes and everything comes tumbling down, and the owner tosses me out because I seriously jeopardized the long-term sustainability of the business. Point in case: Dortmund haven't exactly been succesful since their collapse under Klopp, and perhaps Liverpool are facing the same fate.

I wouldn't be remembered as a good manager.
 

DJ Jeff

Not so Jazzy
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
3,744
Location
Soaring like a candy wrapper caught in an updraft
I'm the manager of a business (I'm not really, but let's say) and I push my employees to work harder than union regulations allow. For a couple of years, production and profits soar as staff puts in twelve-hour shifts at my command. Then they burn out, one after another, and go on sick leave with work-related stress or apply for other jobs where they aren't being pushed beyond reasonable expectations. Eventually the whole thing implodes and everything comes tumbling down, and the owner tosses me out because I seriously jeopardized the long-term sustainability of the business. Point in case: Dortmund haven't exactly been succesful since their collapse under Klopp, and perhaps Liverpool are facing the same fate.

I wouldn't be remembered as a good manager.
If before and after that guy came those businesses had been in the doldrums for a decade or more you'd be remembered pretty well!
 

VidaRed

Full Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
25,372
There was no wind, no rain, no snow, no fog, VAR went their way, Alisson's feet weren't cold, Man Utd weren't given any penalties and Gary Neville wasn't being a big meanie about their club song before the match.

This kills the Klopp :(
But the sun was out and there were shadows in some areas of the ground.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
12,992
Location
Barry
Yes. As much as I can't stand him and them, they're missing the world's best defender and had to rejig the team accordingly.

"But that shouldn't explain such a spectacular collapse." Fair but he has won a Champion's League and their first ever Premier League with a 99 point season. That buys you time. Plus I think they get top 4 with their fixture list compared to Chelsea's.
I'm not saying they should sack him, I'm saying it's joke that there's been almost no analysis of their collapse this season, particularly when it's so similar to what happened with Klopp's Dortmund.

If anything, the previous success should open him up to more scrutiny as this season is so bad in comparison.
 

Lappen

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
275
Location
Sweden
I'm not saying they should sack him, I'm saying it's joke that there's been almost no analysis of their collapse this season, particularly when it's so similar to what happened with Klopp's Dortmund.

If anything, the previous success should open him up to more scrutiny as this season is so bad in comparison.
Everybody is happy with the reason that there been a lott of injuries in the defence. No need to look in to it deeper.... I'm not so sure its that simple and I dont expect Liverpool to dominate like last year, next season.
But I also think it was wrong from the Dortmund side to sack him. He still had a lot to offer them. I don't know everything that happened at Dortmund, but I was not happy when he left and the rumors about Liverpool started.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
12,992
Location
Barry
Everybody is happy with the reason that there been a lott of injuries in the defence. No need to look in to it deeper.... I'm not so sure its that simple and I dont expect Liverpool to dominate like last year, next season.
But I also think it was wrong from the Dortmund side to sack him. He still had a lot to offer them. I don't know everything that happened at Dortmund, but I was not happy when he left and the rumors about Liverpool started.
He wasn't sacked from Dortmund, he walked.

The only person responsible for Liverpool heading into this season with just three senior defenders is Klopp, and yet somehow that's not been mentioned by anyone. The fact that Gomez and Matip are known to be injury prone makes it even more absurd.

If United started this season with just Maguire, Bailly and Jones as our options at centre back, we'd have been slated for the lack of depth there. When Bailly and Jones inevitably got injured, we wouldn't have had a load of excuses made for us if Maguire then also picked up an injury, and we found ourselves with McTominay and Matic in defence for months.
 

Lappen

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
275
Location
Sweden
He wasn't sacked from Dortmund, he walked.

The only person responsible for Liverpool heading into this season with just three senior defenders is Klopp, and yet somehow that's not been mentioned by anyone. The fact that Gomez and Matip are known to be injury prone makes it even more absurd.

If United started this season with just Maguire, Bailly and Jones as our options at centre back, we'd have been slated for the lack of depth there. When Bailly and Jones inevitably got injured, we wouldn't have had a load of excuses made for us if Maguire then also picked up an injury, and we found ourselves with McTominay and Matic in defence for months.
Aaa... sorry my mistake! I thought he was sacked.
Of course the injuries affects there play and fore named reason no-one should expect 100 points. But to end up 35-40 points below that is not answered with unlucky with injuries. I haven't seen the stats of injured minutes and that stat don't tell the true story. But it is a stat worth looking at.
I also blame Ole for not sorting out our injury prone center defence, so I guess the blame on Liverpools situation should be on Klopp as well.

Liverpool have more issues than the center back situation in my opinion. And I don't think its going to be easy to replace the people needed to be replaced, or the ones looking to be replaced...

Just as imported sommerwindow for Liverpool as ours...
 

Brwned

Have you ever been in love before?
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
49,435
I'm the manager of a business (I'm not really, but let's say) and I push my employees to work harder than union regulations allow. For a couple of years, production and profits soar as staff puts in twelve-hour shifts at my command. Then they burn out, one after another, and go on sick leave with work-related stress or apply for other jobs where they aren't being pushed beyond reasonable expectations. Eventually the whole thing implodes and everything comes tumbling down, and the owner tosses me out because I seriously jeopardized the long-term sustainability of the business. Point in case: Dortmund haven't exactly been succesful since their collapse under Klopp, and perhaps Liverpool are facing the same fate.

I wouldn't be remembered as a good manager.
That's not really true.

Dortmund were an upper midtable side in the early 2000s, now they're a top 3 side. In his last season they temporarily fell back to upper midtable, but then they bounced back with a fresh start. Likewise for Mainz: promoted, relegated in last full season, but bounced back the season after he leaves.

If the same pattern was to repeat itself here, it would be Klopp picking up a Europa League side and leaving a CL side.

 
Last edited:

Lappen

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
275
Location
Sweden
He wasn't sacked from Dortmund, he walked.

The only person responsible for Liverpool heading into this season with just three senior defenders is Klopp, and yet somehow that's not been mentioned by anyone. The fact that Gomez and Matip are known to be injury prone makes it even more absurd.

If United started this season with just Maguire, Bailly and Jones as our options at centre back, we'd have been slated for the lack of depth there. When Bailly and Jones inevitably got injured, we wouldn't have had a load of excuses made for us if Maguire then also picked up an injury, and we found ourselves with McTominay and Matic in defence for months.
Read some old articles about him leaving Dortmund, and it was quite interesting. A bit run a way instead of stay and fight.
He told the people he wanted to spare Dortmund to make the decision... hmmm... either they took the decision together and made a nice story of it, or he saw the money in another club and chose the money instead of fight to get them back from a bad season.

Wonder how he look at the situation now. Owner made the SL mistake, bad season, change is needed in the first team....
Will he spare Liverpool the decision as well? Maybe some more money make him think deferent about helping the club with decisions.
:0)
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
11,574
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
How much does it count against a manager's legacy if his teams collapse after a few seasons? Dortmund and now Liverpool; they overperform for a few years and then it all comes crashing down. It's only two clubs, but still. Can't put it all on VVD's injury--as important as he is, it's not as if they're the first team to lose a key player for most of a season. I recall we once had such an injury crisis that we had to field seven defenders against Arsenal. VVD's absence feels more like an excuse than a reason. We once lost Vidic for a similar amount of time and didn't drop seven spots in the league table. His replacement was an inexperienced Jonny Evans, so it's not as though we had a remarkable backup.

Someone on here once posted a pretty good theory. We know that in Klopp's teams (both Dortmund and Liverpool), something like 60% of the players are medicated for asthma. It's not illegal, but it's obvious that they don't actually have asthma. Can't remember what the medicine is called, but it's really rough on your cardiovascular system if you're simultaneously a professional athlete, so players need to be taken off of it for a while every so often. Normally that's done in the summer when they're on break, but if players keep taking the medicine for long enough, they need to be off of it for longer each consecutive season in order to not risk serious health problems. So after a certain number of seasons, the summer break isn't long enough. And during COVID, the season schedule has been completely different and would get in the way of that carefully constructed medical routine.

Couldn't begin to say with any certainty if that's the reason, but the asthma thing is true, and it kind of matches the pattern of Klopp's tenure at Dortmund and Liverpool. He was at Dortmund for longer, but Dortmund weren't at the top when he arrived, and they didn't have an irregular season schedule to interfere with the medical routine. If this is in fact the reason that he's 2 for 2 with regards to his teams crashing and burning after a few seasons at the top, that would be very interesting to look into.

One thing's for sure: their downward spiral this season is not just because of injuries. Plenty of teams face similar injury problems and don't go from one of the best in Europe to absolute trash practically overnight. They weren't crippled by injuries when they lost 7-2 to Aston Villa early on in the season. While the injuries certainly haven't helped, it's clear that their decline is way, way more dramatic than what injuries alone can possibly be responsible for.
There was a similar collapse at Mainz after 6/7 seasons wasn't there?

It's definitely becoming a pattern. It'll be interesting to see if he stays and whether he can turn things around.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
430
Supports
Hannover 96
Read some old articles about him leaving Dortmund, and it was quite interesting. A bit run a way instead of stay and fight.
He told the people he wanted to spare Dortmund to make the decision... hmmm... either they took the decision together and made a nice story of it, or he saw the money in another club and chose the money instead of fight to get them back from a bad season.
I don't think you can say he choose the money - there was no new job in sight for him at that point in time, he only got the job at Liverpool that year when they sacked Rodgers after a bad start to the season. And when he left Dortmund it was expected that he wanted some time off the job, and there are no indications he was in talks with other clubs in the summer - it was a surprise that he started at a new club so quickly.

But nonetheless the situation is at it is - Liverpool are in a very bad patch of form, actually quite similar to Klopps last Dortmund season - there is a pattern of a team that is playing very well and just not getting results (I am sure you can find similar stats like the 146 shots / 4 goals for Dortmund). So while it is crazy, it is also repeating, and shows that Liverpool need some kind of new impulse. And a new manager obviously can be this, so I would not be surprised if Klopp offers this to the club - in the end it was good for everyone when he left Dortmund, they could stabilize themselves under Tuchel, and Klopp also got a great new job. And I am sure he will be offered jobs by similar clubs after his Liverpool stint has ended - a manager who guarantees you 4-6 successful years with a title winning peak is something very interesting for many clubs, maybe not for the serial winners like PSG, Bayern or Real Madrid, but for all top clubs below them.
 

smi11ie

Not a philogynist
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
281
Location
Buri Ram
Supports
Rangers
Anyone who says Klopp has not been amazing for Loserfool is a chump. One bad season does not define his tenure there. I hope their golden patch is over but Klopp has done fantastic. Nobody is perfect and he can take his share of the blame for this season but he has a lot of credit in the bank. Just can't believe some of the prickles on here that think everyone needs to be at their best every day or they become a total loser overnight. Clowns.
 

Lappen

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2021
Messages
275
Location
Sweden
I don't think you can say he choose the money - there was no new job in sight for him at that point in time, he only got the job at Liverpool that year when they sacked Rodgers after a bad start to the season. And when he left Dortmund it was expected that he wanted some time off the job, and there are no indications he was in talks with other clubs in the summer - it was a surprise that he started at a new club so quickly.

But nonetheless the situation is at it is - Liverpool are in a very bad patch of form, actually quite similar to Klopps last Dortmund season - there is a pattern of a team that is playing very well and just not getting results (I am sure you can find similar stats like the 146 shots / 4 goals for Dortmund). So while it is crazy, it is also repeating, and shows that Liverpool need some kind of new impulse. And a new manager obviously can be this, so I would not be surprised if Klopp offers this to the club - in the end it was good for everyone when he left Dortmund, they could stabilize themselves under Tuchel, and Klopp also got a great new job. And I am sure he will be offered jobs by similar clubs after his Liverpool stint has ended - a manager who guarantees you 4-6 successful years with a title winning peak is something very interesting for many clubs, maybe not for the serial winners like PSG, Bayern or Real Madrid, but for all top clubs below them.
You could be right.
Do you think sacking Rodgers was easy when Klopp was there to get?
How long before they sacked Rodgers do you think they were in contact with Klopp?

I might be totally wrong, but I think clubs have more contact with managers than what is "appropriate".

My believes is that the contact already was there but things happend a lott faster than planed.
 

plex

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
195
But nonetheless the situation is at it is - Liverpool are in a very bad patch of form, actually quite similar to Klopps last Dortmund season - there is a pattern of a team that is playing very well and just not getting results (I am sure you can find similar stats like the 146 shots / 4 goals for Dortmund). So while it is crazy, it is also repeating, and shows that Liverpool need some kind of new impulse. And a new manager obviously can be this, so I would not be surprised if Klopp offers this to the club - in the end it was good for everyone when he left Dortmund, they could stabilize themselves under Tuchel, and Klopp also got a great new job. And I am sure he will be offered jobs by similar clubs after his Liverpool stint has ended - a manager who guarantees you 4-6 successful years with a title winning peak is something very interesting for many clubs, maybe not for the serial winners like PSG, Bayern or Real Madrid, but for all top clubs below them.
Let's also keep in mind that nowadays it's rather rare that a coach stays at the same club for more than 3 years. Considering that, Klopp's performance has been great overall.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
430
Supports
Hannover 96
You could be right.
Do you think sacking Rodgers was easy when Klopp was there to get?
How long before they sacked Rodgers do you think they were in contact with Klopp?

I might be totally wrong, but I think clubs have more contact with managers than what is "appropriate".

My believes is that the contact already was there but things happend a lott faster than planed.
When you sack a coach in October (like they did with Rodgers) you have to get a new long-term solution immediately, so I am quite sure they were in contact with Klopp before sacking Rodgers and I agree that could have made that decision easier.

Some kind of "Hey man, what's up?" after he left Dortmund (or similar talk with his agent) is still quite possible (with the probable answer like "nothing for now, just taking my time off work, you got a nice club there I like it"). But I don't believe there was much more contact than this at the time, Rodgers had a contract until 2018 at that point, so I don't think that there was something planned like "Klopp will take over after a sabbatical for season 16/17".
 

hubbuh

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
6,110
Location
UK, hun?
In those home games we’ve only scored four goals as well. That’s a run that goes back months. Kind of weird considering we’ve done ok away from home in the same period.

He does have a lot of credit in the bank though. We’re not a club that has been regularly successful over the past 30 years so he’s being measured against standards he’s lifted the club to since 2018. Feels like an important summer but it’ll help having Gomez and Van Dijk back, along side Matip and Konate as well. We’ll probably see a younger replacement for Wijnaldum come in and at least one attacking player. I think Firmino is done.

If we go into next season in a similar run of form then questions will be asked and maybe his run with us will be up.
That seems like an incredibly risky set of defenders to pin your hopes to. Absolutely zero excuses if it backfires massively.