Jack Grealish / signs new 5 year contract

[sherrinford]

This is the dumbest post in a while. I gave you my opinion. That is that it's worth looking at an alternative, and that I would be fine with either player. I put down numbers to draw a comparison in value for money for our depth piece and to see how they differ.

I've no idea why you believe stats are for losers. They're just there for added context.

Your opinion seems to be based around your claim that Benrahma statistically outperformed Grealish in 18-19.

What's his best position? How versatile is he? Where was he playing then? Where is he playing now? Stylistically, is he actually even similar to Grealish? Describe his dribbling and his passing. His movement. His physical strengths. What kind of players does he have around him, or need or prefer to have around him?

The only hint of anything in your post is your describing of both Benrahma and Grealish as 'technical' players. Otherwise it's all figures and no context.

 

[In Rainbows]

Your opinion seems to be based around your claim that Benrahma statistically outperformed Grealish in 18-19.

What's his best position? How versatile is he? Where was he playing then? Where is he playing now? Stylistically, is he actually even similar to Grealish? Describe his dribbling and his passing. His movement. His physical strengths. What kind of players does he have around him, or need or prefer to have around him?

The only hint of anything in your post is your describing of both Benrahma and Grealish as 'technical' players. Otherwise it's all figures and no context.

What my post said is that they performed similarly in the Championship albeit in different ways. Grealish was the more efficient dribbler, although attempted fewer as you can see by the success rate and number of fouls he received greater than Benrahma. Benrahma's key passes were superior to Grealish's but the output was similar based on the fact that his had a larger number from set pieces. Benrahma benefited from pens in this past season while Grealish did not have any.

The point wasn't to say who was superior or inferior (apart from specific facts), but to say they were similar players when playing at a similar level and would be cheaper.

They would be bought as depth pieces so whether Grealish is more of a midfielder compared to Benrahma doesn't make too much difference because a number of our players are quite versatile and could easily slot in each others' positions. For example, Grealish could play as a 10 or on the left wing. Pogba could play a deeper role like right now, or be the most advanced player in a midfield 3, thus covering for Bruno.


Benrahma could cover for Bruno in that he's quite clearly more aggressive than Grealish hence the higher end product, more attempts at doing things (I should have included his shooting attempt numbers) like attempted dribbles.


In the same reason why DVB isn't exactly like Grealish, but no distinction is made in exact style, so to did I bring up Benrahma. We simply need more bodies in general that could be of a certain quality. It doesn't matter too much in terms of playing style, as opposed to quality above the level of Daniel James, Pereira, etc... Note how James and Pereira aren't the same players either. If they were of higher quality we wouldn't be having this same kind of discussion.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I think he would be a fan favourite here! Right attitude, works his socks off, gritty and doesn’t give up.
Would love to see what he can do with more quality around him ... tidy player.

 

[Winzaghi]

Honestly Villa have no firm ground to stand on outside of being financially stable. Their player wants out, there are likely no interests for £50m let alone £80m in this environment and they risk a destabilised dressing room or a delay to their own transfer business if they feck around on this.

It's not like they're Leicester and can sit out the whole window firm on a stupid sum knowing we are desperate (which we aren't) and that they need not buy to replace as there's a replacement in the squad (which villa don't. Theyl need time to buy).

£40m or feck off I say. Then move to VdB.

What firmer ground is there than financial stability? Also, what evidence is there that he wants out beyond wishful thinking transfer speculation from tabloids? The club don't need to sell so potential suiters either meet their valuation of their player or keep it moving, it's honestly that simple.

 

[Suedesi]

I don't particularly expect anything from a full back - any 'kind' can add value to a team if they have the requisite quality.

Being adept at, and extremely partial to, tackling doesn't make Wan Bissaka a first class defender - when I said he doesn't know what he's doing aside from defending one on one, I wasnt talking about his attacking play.

Wan Bissaka has only came into the discussion because of a rumoured £80m asking price for Grealish. Many seem perplexed at the potential valuation and I don't really see why - he's the best player, captain, talisman of the club, is under contract and had an excellent season with Villa only just surviving and with very ambitious owners. They obviously won't want to sell. And reluctant sellers will obviously set a high price. Then look at the general state of the transfer market. Look at how expensive it is buying from other Premier League teams. And yes, look at what United pay for players. £80m on Maguire, £50m for Fernandes, £50m for Fred, £20m for Dalot, £75m for Lukaku, £40m for Matic. It wouldn't be at all surprising if Villa want £80m for Grealish, and even less so if we have shown an interest.

Right, so why the fck should United spend nearly more than double on Grealish than they did on Bruno? One's a starter, the other would be a bench warmer / impact sub.

I get it that Villa value him highly, but Grealish's value to United is considerably less. (Unless Grealish can play RW)

And since you mentioned AWB, it was a price we had to pay after neglecting the RB position for ages and having a floundering Antonio Valencia play 3-4 seasons more than he should have had. We were just desperate to make it right. We needed a RB. So we paid what we thought would be a large fee for someone that could make that position his for the next decade. We're not desperate for an AM who will be a squad option at the moment.

So just to summarize, I would overpay for a right winger as we desperately need one. Maybe overpay for a good DLP if one's available. I would pay a fair amount for an attacking midfielder who will strengthen the bench/squad. 80m is not what I would consider a fair amount for Grealish (by a factor of 1.75-2x).

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't particularly expect anything from a full back - any 'kind' can add value to a team if they have the requisite quality.

Being adept at, and extremely partial to, tackling doesn't make Wan Bissaka a first class defender - when I said he doesn't know what he's doing aside from defending one on one, I wasnt talking about his attacking play.

Wan Bissaka has only came into the discussion because of a rumoured £80m asking price for Grealish. Many seem perplexed at the potential valuation and I don't really see why - he's the best player, captain, talisman of the club, is under contract and had an excellent season with Villa only just surviving and with very ambitious owners. They obviously won't want to sell. And reluctant sellers will obviously set a high price. Then look at the general state of the transfer market. Look at how expensive it is buying from other Premier League teams. And yes, look at what United pay for players. £80m on Maguire, £50m for Fernandes, £50m for Fred, £20m for Dalot, £75m for Lukaku, £40m for Matic. It wouldn't be at all surprising if Villa want £80m for Grealish, and even less so if we have shown an interest.

If you are paying big money means you want to play them as your regular players. You see the importance of the player in the team when you sign them. Whether it will work out or no then it's another story. We want Grealish at the moment as a squad player not as a regular player. After the performance that Rashford, Martial & Bruno showed so far, I doubt the club will say hey let's spend 80m on Grealish because one of those three will turn into flop and the 80m we are going to spend on Grealish will be paid off.

 

[Mr. Ant]

We need to get him in. I just hope Villa won't play hardball. He's a leader and offers something different to our main midfielders.

We need good players in our squad because the drop in quality is horrible to watch. Imagine if Pogba or Bruno are injured or need a break during the season.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Not Grealish please. The lad is a lightweight.

 

[croadyman]

Definitely feels that the only way this deal gets resurrected again is if Jack actually pushes for the move. Personally I can't see him doing that to a club he loves so much.

 

[croadyman]

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I'd be pissed over being priced out of a move if I were him after everything he's done for them from the Championship to helping drag them out of relegation. He's earned the right to explore new opportunities on his own terms

Yeah but unfortunately looks like he isn't getting a choice in the matter and we end up still short depth wise again.

 

[Gazza]

Right, so why the fck should United spend nearly more than double on Grealish than they did on Bruno? One's a starter, the other would be a bench warmer / impact sub.

I get it that Villa value him highly, but Grealish's value to United is considerably less. (Unless Grealish can play RW)

And since you mentioned AWB, it was a price we had to pay after neglecting the RB position for ages and having a floundering Antonio Valencia play 3-4 seasons more than he should have had. We were just desperate to make it right. We needed a RB. So we paid what we thought would be a large fee for someone that could make that position his for the next decade. We're not desperate for an AM who will be a squad option at the moment.

So just to summarize, I would overpay for a right winger as we desperately need one. Maybe overpay for a good DLP if one's available. I would pay a fair amount for an attacking midfielder who will strengthen the bench/squad. 80m is not what I would consider a fair amount for Grealish (by a factor of 1.75-2x).

Agree with this. Grealish would be more of a nice-to-have than a must-have, but not at the price we'd have to pay for him.

 

[croadyman]

What's the bet one of the other top 5/6 come in for him and he goes for around 50?

Just because it's Utd, they'll up the fee

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest and watch him rip it up against us for City,maybe then people will realise it was a mistake not spending the money on him.

 

[hobbers]

80m for him would almost make 130m for maguire and awb look value for money.

We cant keep getting fleeced for meh English players just because they happen to be the best of a bad bunch of options. Though unlike with AWB and Maguire there is a huge glut of options when it comes to players like Grealish with similar or more talent and promise.

 

[roseguy64]

Doesn't it make some sense to go for Benrahma to be depth? The only difference is that Grealish got a chance to play in the PL this past season, while Benrahma hasn't gotten that chance. They're the same age, and Benrahma statistically outperformed in when both Grealish and he were in the Championship at the same age (23). And that's despite Grealish playing in a better attacking side in the Championship.

If you think the 1 season Grealish got to play in the PL is enough to warrent an extra dozen or so millions, then fair enough. However, Benrahma could make the same step up Grealish did if given the chance. It's not like we're talking about a Daniel James here. Both were technical players.


Championship 2018/19
-Villa = 82 goals scored, 76 points
-Brentford = 72 goals scored, 61 points

-Grealish (age 23) = 6 goals, 8 assists in 3031 minutes
-Benrahma (age 23) = 11 goals, 17 assists in 2853 minutes

-Grealish (age 22) = 3 goals, 6 assists in 2138 minutes
-Benrahma (age 22) = 10 goals, 5 assists in 2462 minutes in French 2nd division (2 pens)


For added context
-Benrahma (age 24) = 17 goals, 9 assists in 3632 minutes (4 pens)



Dribbling
-Grealish (age 23) = 1.8 dribbles/2.8 attempts per 90 min. Is fouled 4.9 per 90 min.
-Benrahma (age 23) = 3.3 dribbles/6.5 attempts per 90 min. Is fouled 1.3 per 90 min.

Key passes
-Grealish (age 23) = 2.3 per 90 min (0.2 from corners, and 0.2 from freekicks)
-Benrahma (age 23) = 3.3 per 90 min (0.7 from corners and 0.2 from freekicks)



I would be fine with Grealish too btw. I'm just saying it's worth looking at. This isn't meant to paint one player as inferior to the other. They're a little different from one another which is why I've included stats that paint Grealish in a better light than Benrahma and vice versa.

Grealish has played multiple seasons in the Prem.

 

[croadyman]

I think he would be a fan favourite here! Right attitude, works his socks off, gritty and doesn’t give up.
Would love to see what he can do with more quality around him ... tidy player.

Yeah so would I too but unless he is prepared to hand in a transfer request then this isn't going anywhere.

I would still rather pay £60m for him than £40m for VDB,yes know that sounds crazy but reckon he could offer cover in the middle and out wide. Persinally I think he could surprise people and actually break into the team

 

[CG1010]

I feel like the Grealish link is just due to some ITKs and press linking us up. If Pogba signs a contract with us, I don't see us signing a 50-60 million player just for backup. At best it could be a negotiating ploy for Sancho.

 

[irvinered]

I think Grealish has a mix of skill, determination and leadership qualities which Ole clearly looks for - I can see why he likes him so much.

One of Grealish's primary attributes is his ability to hold on to the ball, dribble a bit and getting fouled. Those skills are precisely what's needed in our team at the moment - we easily lose the ball when other teams press aggressively e.g. against Southampton. Having an outlet like Grealish will negate one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment. Further forward, his ability to get fouled will create a lot more scoring opportunities through free kicks & set pieces where Bruno & co can capitalize on. I see him as much more than a squad player if we are able to get him.

 

[MadDogg]

Not Grealish please. The lad is a lightweight.

Lightweight? He's not the biggest of guys but he's surprisingly strong on the ball. Part of the reason he wins so many fouls is because he holds people off until they have no choice but to really bring him down.

 

[Strelok]

One of Grealish's primary attributes is his ability to hold on to the ball, dribble a bit and getting fouled. Those skills are precisely what's needed in our team at the moment - we easily lose the ball when other teams press aggressively e.g. against Southampton. Having an outlet like Grealish will negate one of our biggest weaknesses at the moment. Further forward, his ability to get fouled will create a lot more scoring opportunities through free kicks & set pieces where Bruno & co can capitalize on. I see him as much more than a squad player if we are able to get him.

Tbh I couldn't call this an ability. What if the refs ain't give a sht like when Bruno or Greenwood got kicked the sht out of him ? Don't know why but some refs seem really bias toward us regarding this.

 

[jackal&hyde]

He can play on the left, through the center and i think on the right, not so much as a winger but as a wide play maker; possibly even in the double pivot when we have most of the possession. He would get a lot of games for us, not a bench player at all.

 

[SecondFig]

Lightweight? He's not the biggest of guys but he's surprisingly strong on the ball. Part of the reason he wins so many fouls is because he holds people off until they have no choice but to really bring him down.

Exactly - plus he's playing for a side who spent most of this season on the back foot, defending, and under pressure. Taking the fouls gave his team a chance to take a breather, move back up the pitch, regain structure etc

 

[SmallCaine]

I think he would be a fan favourite here! Right attitude, works his socks off, gritty and doesn’t give up.
Would love to see what he can do with more quality around him ... tidy player.

Does he really track back? I have seen him only a handful of times, but one thing that stood out was he rarely tracks back unless he is the one who lost the ball. With someone like bruno or rooney before him, they do the dirty work whether they are at fault or not. He seemed to only do it, if he was responsible.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Bench player or not, he is not worth more than Bruno Fernandes.

 

[Amarsdd]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest and watch him rip it up against us for City,maybe then people will realise it was a mistake not spending the money on him.

or if someone like Tottenham or Arsenal get him, he would raise those teams a level or two above just by himself.

 

[Red_Orchestra]

Not Grealish please. The lad is a lightweight.

To be honest, I think he's a little slow. When I say slow I mean slow response and slow reaction.
I don't think he would be able to hang or keep up with the pace with this Man United squad.
I'm about to get roasted for this, but that's just my observation on him.

 

[nainaisson]

I feel like the Grealish link is just due to some ITKs and press linking us up. If Pogba signs a contract with us, I don't see us signing a 50-60 million player just for backup. At best it could be a negotiating ploy for Sancho.

Most of the "Grealish already agreed terms with United" stories have come from Rob Dawson, who has a history of reporting as fact whatever Jonathan Barnett, who just so happens to be Grealish's agent, tells him. The goal always seemed to be to start a bidding war for Grealish, which I don't think is possible now with clubs' shaky post-pandemic financial situations.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest and watch him rip it up against us for City,maybe then people will realise it was a mistake not spending the money on him.

Maybe that's why we got Fred and Sanchez? Jokes aside if we don't get Grealish then there are other good alternatives that are capable of providing quality squad depth. I think the club always presents itself as always fixated on one player and this makes the fans get fixated too. If we've seen reports about us targeting other solid alternatives like Aouar, Buendia etc then people will pay attention to those players and realise that Grealish is not the only good option. I can definitely see Aouar ripping us a new one in a City shirt

 

[VP89]

What firmer ground is there than financial stability? Also, what evidence is there that he wants out beyond wishful thinking transfer speculation from tabloids? The club don't need to sell so potential suiters either meet their valuation of their player or keep it moving, it's honestly that simple.

It's actually coming from v reliable journos who can't all be wrong. Smiths interviews pretty much verify Grealishs mind is elsewhere and Grealish himself has suggested it with his cryptic answers.

And no it's not that simple, because Villa will risk pissing him off from an unrealistic demand. That can get quite toxic as the window stretches on. Moreover Villa will need to replace him, as they have no replacement close to his ability that's in the squad. So it's in their best interest to complete the deal with time to buy their own players too.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

£80m is bonkers. He'll be stuck at Villa unless he forces a move.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

or if someone like Tottenham or Arsenal get him, he would raise those teams a level or two above just by himself.

Both can't afford him even if the price is reasonable. The only options he has in England are us and City

 

[Tarrou]

Tbh I couldn't call this an ability. What if the refs ain't give a sht like when Bruno or Greenwood got kicked the sht out of him ? Don't know why but some refs seem really bias toward us regarding this.

yeah it's more indicative of other abilities, such as his ability to protect ball well and his close control

I think he broke the PL record for most fouled player in a season with eight games to go, so it's definitely something he's doing right

 

[Escobar]

Yeah but unfortunately looks like he isn't getting a choice in the matter and we end up still short depth wise again.

Only right to cool our interest. He's way too expensive if we prioritize Sancho. We just can't afford both and Ole knows there are other positions he needs to strengthen too

 

[Adam-Utd]

Tbh I couldn't call this an ability. What if the refs ain't give a sht like when Bruno or Greenwood got kicked the sht out of him ? Don't know why but some refs seem really bias toward us regarding this.

It is to be fair. Like Hazard they know how to position their bodies between the ball and a player, then when contacted they time it perfectly to go down. It's no coincidence he's won the most fouls in the league by far. Yes his style contributes to it, but he wins fouls all the time by getting people to try and nip at the ball while he's carrying it.

I think Grealish's style will help us a lot more in European style football where it's slower and possession is paramount.

 

[theklr]

Exactly - plus he's playing for a side who spent most of this season on the back foot, defending, and under pressure. Taking the fouls gave his team a chance to take a breather, move back up the pitch, regain structure etc

Coincidentally that would be a very nice addition for us since we cant beat a high press for the life of us. His dribbling ability will be very good for us.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

It is to be fair. Like Hazard they know how to position their bodies between the ball and a player, then when contacted they time it perfectly to go down. It's no coincidence he's won the most fouls in the league by far. Yes his style contributes to it, but he wins fouls all the time by getting people to try and nip at the ball while he's carrying it.

I think Grealish's style will help us a lot more in European style football where it's slower and possession is paramount.

Good post, especially the last part.

I think it's important when we buy new players, squad players or not, that they offer something different to what we already have. It's not just about how good they are or what position they play, it's also about what they're good at. Grealish definitely adds something we don't really have already, and that's very, very important.

Of course £80m is laughable, and he won't go for that much. But for a fair, or even slightly higher price, I think Grealish has a lot to offer ability wise. He can be utilized in so many different ways and provide something new/different when we need to change how we play to get an important goal or protect a lead.

 

[Jinn]

We have got to get out of this small time mentality. We need strength in depth, but more important is quality in depth. If we can get him, we should get him. It's as simple as that.
Let the manager sit with the headache of team selection, that's what he's paid for.

For me, a successful transfer window will be the acquisition of a quality right winger, an attacking midfielder and a CB. At the very minimum we should get 2 of the 3.
Yes, selling dead wood is important etc. but if we don't strengthen, we can't solidify top 4 next season and move on to the next stage, which is to win the league.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Good post, especially the last part.

I think it's important when we buy new players, squad players or not, that they offer something different to what we already have. It's not just about how good they are or what position they play, it's also about what they're good at. Grealish definitely adds something we don't really have already, and that's very, very important.

Of course £80m is laughable, and he won't go for that much. But for a fair, or even slightly higher price, I think Grealish has a lot to offer ability wise. He can be utilized in so many different ways and provide something new/different when we need to change how we play to get an important goal or protect a lead.

Yep. We have a lot of greyhounds in our team that are great for that style of football, but when you want somebody to take a touch and compose themselves and "manage the game" sometimes it's not quite there. I think he'd fit in perfectly, I do think we will get him but maybe for £50m+add ons or something similar.

Villa will no doubt be desperate to keep him but I think he deserves to try the next level, he could have left 2 years ago for Tottenham under Poch but the deal didn't happen.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Yep. We have a lot of greyhounds in our team that are great for that style of football, but when you want somebody to take a touch and compose themselves and "manage the game" sometimes it's not quite there. I think he'd fit in perfectly, I do think we will get him but maybe for £50m+add ons or something similar.

Villa will no doubt be desperate to keep him but I think he deserves to try the next level, he could have left 2 years ago for Tottenham under Poch but the deal didn't happen.

Yeah, Villa will be sending out very bad signal for their own sake recruitment wise if they force him to stay. Which players with great potential would wanna go there if they force Grealish to stay, after he's been as loyal as he has? He's been Villa through and through.

He stayed with them when they got relegated, was instrumental in getting them back up with the big boys, and was their best player by far and the single biggest reason them staying up in the end. He could've forced a move every window since they got relegated in 2016, but he's stayed with them. Until now. Good luck getting any british talent in the future if they feck this up.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yeah, Villa will be sending out very bad signal for their own sake recruitment wise if they force him to stay. Which players with great potential would wanna go there if they force Grealish to stay, after he's been as loyal as he has? He's been Villa through and through.

He stayed with them when they got relegated, was instrumental in getting them back up with the big boys, and was their best player by far and the single biggest reason them staying up in the end. He could've forced a move every window since they got relegated in 2016, but he's stayed with them. Until now. Good luck getting any british talent in the future if they feck this up.

It's often a problem for people when you play for your boyhood club. You're expected to stall your career just because you love them.

It's a similar situation to Kane I guess, will he stay at Spurs and potentially win nothing in his career just because he's Tottenham through and through? at least they've got a slim chance at winning something, Villa aren't close for at least 3 seasons.

 

[DWelbz19]

£80m is bonkers. He'll be stuck at Villa unless he forces a move.

He’ll need to push if they’re being serious with those numbers. Zaha didn’t and he’s now 28 coming off a season with 4 goals and 3 assists.