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stefan92

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I don’t understand the logic of using this specifically against teams that “sit deep”. If they’re sitting deep, why do we need 5 at the back?
It would maybe not look like a back five, but more like this in reality:

------------ Ronaldo ----- Greenwood ----------
---------------------- Bruno ---------------- Sancho
Shaw --------- Fred ------------- McT --------------
-------- Varane ---- Maguire ------- AWB -------
------------------------------ DDG -------------------------

"RWB" more or less just means that you own the full right wing, but you can be more attacking or less, depending on your style.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I don’t understand the logic of using this specifically against teams that “sit deep”. If they’re sitting deep, why do we need 5 at the back?
5 at the back doesn't really matter. The main thing is how you utilize it.

I personally don't agree with it, but if we were to use Sancho as wing back against teams that sit back, then you'd expect him to be in attacking positions more often, thus being more productive in the final third, in comparison to AWB. I guess you could liken it to when Tuchel uses Hudson-Odoi (not very often now because James is a beast going forward) as wing back.

That being said, if we are to stick to 3/5 at the back, then I'd much prefer use to use wide forwards, as opposed to two strikers up top. So more of a 343 than a 352.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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The luck as in it happened to work out for the Spurs because they were awful and since then it's seen as a magical solution regardless of personnel or other considerations
And it didn't take long for Ole to revert back to his favoured 4231 when we were a goal behind against Atalanta.
 

kouroux

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And it didn't take long for Ole to revert back to his favoured 4231 when we were a goal behind against Atalanta.
Exactly. If the formation is the future then surely a CB would have replaced Varane and we would have kept on going. You don't see other teams abandoning their main formation when they go a goal down.
Like many have said, the formation itself isn't the issue. I just wonder why we've bought Sancho, it would have been better to get Trippier.
 

Siezard

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What's funny is, Daniel James, who we sold, would have been much better suited to this wing back role than Jadon Sancho, who is more of a playmaking winger than a direct one.

Going forward, Ole needs to revert back to the 4231 and give him a run of games on the right. He hasn't even had the chance to build an understanding with any of the full backs yet. Put him down the right, with Rashford or Lingard on the left and see how it goes.
James doesn't have the skills to become a real superstar. He has been ridiculed so much that it's better for him to leave for his own wellbeing.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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James doesn't have the skills to become a real superstar. He has been ridiculed so much that it's better for him to leave for his own wellbeing.
He doesn't need to be a ''superstar''. I just think he'd be better suited to that role because of his skillset.
 

Bubz27

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Yes but he is the captain and represents Ole on the pitch. Instead of being benched because he no longer should automatically starts, some solutions are found to help mask his deficiencies
I get that but I think the 3-5-2 (5-4-1, let's be honest) is also masking McFred's deficiencies and giving us another body up top with Ronaldo to do some running.

It's actually not masking any of those deficiencies, I should say attempting to mask.
 

kouroux

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I get that but I think the 3-5-2 (5-4-1, let's be honest) is also masking McFred's deficiencies and giving us another body up top with Ronaldo to do some running.

It's actually not masking any of those deficiencies, I should say attempting to mask.
How would the formation possibly hide their deficiencies ? I mean it's not like a 3rd midfielder has been added next to them. Besides Ole has never had problems benching one of them whenever he felt like it but Maguire has to play all the time. No matter how fit or his form, he has to play for him
 

Bubz27

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How would the formation possibly hide their deficiencies ? I mean it's not like a 3rd midfielder has been added next to them. Besides Ole has never had problems benching one of them whenever he felt like it but Maguire has to play all the time. No matter how fit or his form, he has to play for him
In the same way people say 3 CBs would let us play Pogba in a midfield 2. When they invariably get ran past or played through, theoretically there'd be enough cover behind them so that not every mistake is punished severely

And yes, he has benched on of McFred before but they're his go-to guys in midfield. Any big game, any time Ole's been under pressure, it's McFred in midfield.
 

AjaxCunian

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Ole ruining talent, what he does. You can't tell me this is a nothing player or it's just because of a poor league.

He is so unlucky he is managed by two very poor managers. Sure he should have done better and been more direct and assertive many at times.
 

Van Piorsing

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Turned Maguire into Bramble, time for Sancho to become Stewart Downing.

While Martial's transformation into Yakubu is almost complete, Ronaldo still resisting the Bebe level.
 

hammerhead1878

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Turned Maguire into Bramble, time for Sancho to become Stewart Downing.

While Martial's transformation into Yakubu is almost complete, Ronaldo still resisting the Bebe level.
This is such a funny post. I hope it does not happen. Sancho has so much potential, would hate to see him become like Van De Bench
 

Van Piorsing

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This is such a funny post. I hope it does not happen. Sancho has so much potential, would hate to see him become like Van De Bench
VdBench it's pretty much game over for him as Jones achieved more in United's midfield... As things going at the moment, i'd be almost positively surprised if Sancho can contribute more than Memphis or Di Maria.
 

shahzy

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If this doesnt show you a crap manager can destroy talent, nothing will. Even Martial might be way better once he has some proper managers who can actually coach
 

NoPace

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It would maybe not look like a back five, but more like this in reality:

------------ Ronaldo ----- Greenwood ----------
---------------------- Bruno ---------------- Sancho
Shaw --------- Fred ------------- McT --------------
-------- Varane ---- Maguire ------- AWB -------
------------------------------ DDG -------------------------

"RWB" more or less just means that you own the full right wing, but you can be more attacking or less, depending on your style.
France also seem to have moved to this to, presumably because Deschamps is copying Mancini after Italy's Euro win. Coman started against Kazakhstan and they looked incredible, and while that's a smaller team, it suits them on the left side where Theo is a great athlete going forward, and Kounde being a small CB who can play the role you have AWB in, though I worry it's a bad fit for him.

But yeah, it seems like it may well be the best way to get Bruno and Sancho and 2 of our strikers into the team. When Cristiano leaves, maybe this:

-----------Rashford ----- Greenwood ----------
---------------------- Bruno ---------------- Sancho
Shaw --------- CM ------------- CM --------------
-------- Varane ---- Maguire ------- RCB -------
------------------------------ DDG -------------------------

with 2 new signings at CM and a right-sided defender, possibly even Kounde himself.
 

Steve 007

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Sancho will come good and have a bright future. Let’s be honest the whole team bar the Leeds game have been rubbish, how is a youngster like him supposed to be full of confidence and hit the ground running, especially after the Euros. A new manager might come in and give Sancho and VDB the lift they need or it could be that Ole was right and VDB didn’t have it. I hope got option A.
 

Scholsey2004

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He doesn't need to be a ''superstar''. I just think he'd be better suited to that role because of his skillset.
To be a good wing back/attacking full back you need to be very good technically, like Trippier, Cancelo or Alexander-Arnold. Well coached opposition sides would press the players around him until James got the ball, knowing that he would be more likely to lose possession under pressure and would be less able to successfully pass it through them anyway. Thats part of the issue with Wan Bissaka and Smalling when he was here. James could play as a wing back for a mid-level counterattacking side, certainly, but look at all the best sides who are playing to control the game and theyre using players who are very strong on the ball in that position.
 

Zehner

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France also seem to have moved to this to, presumably because Deschamps is copying Mancini after Italy's Euro win. Coman started against Kazakhstan and they looked incredible, and while that's a smaller team, it suits them on the left side where Theo is a great athlete going forward, and Kounde being a small CB who can play the role you have AWB in, though I worry it's a bad fit for him.

But yeah, it seems like it may well be the best way to get Bruno and Sancho and 2 of our strikers into the team. When Cristiano leaves, maybe this:

-----------Rashford ----- Greenwood ----------
---------------------- Bruno ---------------- Sancho
Shaw --------- CM ------------- CM --------------
-------- Varane ---- Maguire ------- RCB -------
------------------------------ DDG -------------------------

with 2 new signings at CM and a right-sided defender, possibly even Kounde himself.
Coman at least makes more sense because he actually is a wide player that loves isolated one on ones and beats full backs. Sancho has collected his scorers and made his best plays cutting inside and playing between the lines for Dortmund. You would not only shoehorn a player who don't really has the important attributes for an attacking wing back (physique, pace, work rate, crossing) into a position he's not used to, you'd also use him in a different area of the pitch. I mean, Sancho played a very similar formation to the one you suggested for Dortmund regularly during his time there but he was a central player in it, not the RWB. That role was occupied by Hakimi and it would have seemed absolutely ridiculous to play Sancho there because he had such a different skill set.

The fact that this was the one player Solskjaer wanted to sign the most seems almost bizarre. I hope he's either gone within the next few weeks or that Sancho has enough and wants out again. This is risking the career of one of the most exciting talents in world football - all because of incompetence.
 

Bondi77

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Dortmund were not happy with the fee that we paid for Sancho so I wonder if they would give us a full refund?
Apparently we bought him to fill the RW position as that was a weakness in our team.and yet he is reluctant to take on his marker and does not seem to have the pace or explosiveness to have an impact in this team.
 

SATA

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Time for him to start ten games in a row and crack on from here. He should be fully fit and hungry to play now. I’m still genuinely excited by this signing and to see him play
 

Berbasbullet

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You’d think with him not going to play for England we would start him against Watford. Hopefully start of a run of games for the boy.
 

Gordon Godot

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You’d think with him not going to play for England we would start him against Watford. Hopefully start of a run of games for the boy.
Ole spent two years chasing him but clearly has no idea how or where to play him. Why do you think he is suddenly going to get a run of games?
 

romufc

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Ole spent two years chasing him but clearly has no idea how or where to play him. Why do you think he is suddenly going to get a run of games?

The funny thing is Ole was on holiday anyway, so he cannot even fit him in the team

He will most likely start Rashford and Greenwood either side of Ronaldo.
 

Zehner

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Dortmund were not happy with the fee that we paid for Sancho so I wonder if they would give us a full refund?
Apparently we bought him to fill the RW position as that was a weakness in our team.and yet he is reluctant to take on his marker and does not seem to have the pace or explosiveness to have an impact in this team.
I think they might be open for that if the player also signs a new contract ;)
 

NoPace

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Coman at least makes more sense because he actually is a wide player that loves isolated one on ones and beats full backs. Sancho has collected his scorers and made his best plays cutting inside and playing between the lines for Dortmund. You would not only shoehorn a player who don't really has the important attributes for an attacking wing back (physique, pace, work rate, crossing) into a position he's not used to, you'd also use him in a different area of the pitch. I mean, Sancho played a very similar formation to the one you suggested for Dortmund regularly during his time there but he was a central player in it, not the RWB. That role was occupied by Hakimi and it would have seemed absolutely ridiculous to play Sancho there because he had such a different skill set.

The fact that this was the one player Solskjaer wanted to sign the most seems almost bizarre. I hope he's either gone within the next few weeks or that Sancho has enough and wants out again. This is risking the career of one of the most exciting talents in world football - all because of incompetence.
I assumed it wasn't Solskjaer as much as the club hierarchy.

You're not wrong about Sancho, and maybe we'll play 4 at the back with him as a fairly conventional wide player with license to come inside. We really have no idea at the moment because the team is without any real structure. Will Rashford be best at LW or like Sane will he end up looking better not inverted because he can use his pace to attack.

Hakimi has great raw pace, but that's not the only way to make it work. Pep is using Gabriel Jesus out wide on the right which nobody saw coming. Ultimately at a big club there's going to be players playing wide who would be (or were or will be in the future) used centrally at small clubs.

The only thing I really feel confident saying is that I'd have him out wide at the moment whether we're tucking in Wan-Bissaka or not, because he'll suit an aging Cristiano better than Greenwood or Rashford will in that he'll look to create chances for him as opposed to just himself. Add that to the truth that there's hardly any point in having Wan-Bissaka attack at the moment and we don't have anyone else decent to play RB (whether they're tucking inside with Sancho wide and high, or overlapping him while Sancho is more often in the half-spaces) and sticking him very wide to provide some width on the right looks like possibly the best of a bad situation.

The next manager's style will dictate where Sancho plays, whether that's as a winger with a FB underlapping/tucking in behind him, or Sancho coming inside more like at Dortmund with a fullback or wingback wide of him, or maybe Rangnick will come and we'll play 4-2-2-2 with Sancho and Bruno tucked in behind 2 strikers.

He's a quality player who should be part of the core the new manager centres things around along with Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Shaw and Varane. Nobody else seems like an above 50% likelihood to put together a quality 4-5 years as a first choice player here. When you look at that group, it seems like the obvious move is Greenwood up top, Sancho and Rashford wide of him in attack, Bruno as the most attacking of a band of 3 midfielders, Shaw at LB and Varane as a CB, and we need 2 new defenders and a new double pivot, and the goalkeepers I genuinely have no idea. I don't think there's anything in that group that shouldn't allow Sancho to play a similar role to the one he played at Dortmund, as long as we sign a RB who can attack or Wan-Bissaka is improved by the new manager. But this season? We might be best with him as wide as possible on the right since it doesn't seem like we're going to make a right-side that works without it, and it's not like we've focused on seeing if a Sancho-Shaw partnership on the left is something to build around.
 

SonyaCross493

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Sancho must start again Watford. They don't defend crosses well and Sancho is our only wide forward who can put in a decent cross, and make up for AWB lack of ability to cross. He should be one of the first names on the team-sheet tomorrow.

Ronaldo surviving off scraps it's sad. When he gets chances he scores.. imaging if we actually create chances for him!? Feed the GOAT and he will score.. simple really!
 

Bubz27

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Sancho must start again Watford. They don't defend crosses well and Sancho is our only wide forward who can put in a decent cross, and make up for AWB lack of ability to cross. He should be one of the first names on the team-sheet tomorrow.

Ronaldo surviving off scraps it's sad. When he gets chances he scores.. imaging if we actually create chances for him!? Feed the GOAT and he will score.. simple really!
Apt username.
 

Siezard

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Does Sancho know how to cross? I tot he's more of a short ball passer?
 

simonhch

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He needs to start a game on the right, where he was bought for. Rashford left, Ronaldo up top, Sancho right. Harsh on Greenwood, but let’s see some balance and rotation. McTominay, Van de Beek, and Bruno through the middle.
 
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