Ive never seen so many guesses and assumptions in one post before. Its actually impressive
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I hope that’s the case, but I’m slowly losing faith.
They never said he wasn’t for sale. They said they won’t sell him after August 10th, a full two months before the transfer window shuts. The same man who said this has thrice in recent history said player x isn’t for sale prior to then selling player x. Sancho is different though because he’s super happy at Dortmund according to everyone at Dortmund except Sancho.
For me the situation is simple. You have a very valuable painting. Before Covid it's valued at £100m. Now someone wants your painting but can only pay £80m. You're in no emergency need of money. Would you agree?
Personally I think Dortmund have known they were going to sell him this summer and this is there PR stance. They’ll wait till Sancho hands in a transfer request then say to their supporters they had no intention of selling him until the request went in. At that point it was out of their hands but look how good we did to get all this money for a player who wanted to leave.
The deal will happen IF we want to match the price And payment structure. Lets face it, if we offered 95m cash plus the rest in reasonable add ons next week Dortmund will sell. Selling club
I fully expect to see Angela Merkel on the evening news telling us how pleased she is that Jadon is hanging on for another year.
It's entirely dependent on whether I need to sell the painting in order to buy other cheaper paintings that I hope will grow in value over the next few years which will then be flipped for significant profit (and the cycle continues ad infinitum). It's the only way I stay competitive in the painting game.
Zorc has boxed himself into a corner with his post-deadline comments informing us that Sancho is staying another year (and clearly instructing senior squad to tweet similar comments). If he sells Sancho this summer, not only will his reputation take a severe hit among the squad and club associates, but negotiating future transfer deals will prove trickier due to him being unreliable. He must keep Sancho or lose face.
In your honest opinion, would Zorc be willing to harm his reputation and sell Sancho to United if Woodward stumps up the required fee of £108-120 million?
I am fully aware this might not really be a sensible discussion to have in this forum, but what exactly makes you assume that? As of right now Dortmunds stance is that they will not sell, why do you reckon they will change their minds?
She’ll express a wish that he joins Bayern on a free at the end of his contract.
Yes, because he'd just spin another line. Not a chance they're rejecting 108m if we stump up the cash
Because you only have the lease on your painting for 2 more years. Next year those fancy art buyers might have even less money, so no chance of getting the £100m you want then.
So that leaves you with hoping to get the same amount a year later, or risk losing him for even less. Eventually the painting might get stolen by a burglar and you end up with nothing...
I think you're right, but I want the very confident resident Dortmund fans to admit it.
Is the painting homesick and wanting to be sold?
I agree. Not sure we are going to pay up but if we do they will spin it. People keep talking about the impact of COVID now but wait til next summer with the very real probability that it does not go away and seasons are again interrupted and played in empty stadiums. Good chance that even with a bidding war nobody will be able to afford even half that price in 2021 so you take the money in the bank now.
But I don't think we have those 108m GBP. Otherwise, it would have been easier, I think.
He's moved his angle from total pessimism, to totally optimism with Sancho
The sky thing relates to club income. If large percentages of the population are out of work due to Covid that will affect all the clubs revenue streams. If coronavirus stays then there will be a lot less money in the economy and therefore less money into Man Utd. These times are very uncertain, people are holding back on family holidays and Dortmund want £108m for a single player. I sort of agree with Utd on this one. It’s Too much money - how many players have Dortmund sold us that have lived up to the hype - none. That’s why it should be smaller fee plus heavy incentives.
When Real came calling for Ronaldo, Fergie went on record saying he would not sell a virus to that mob. A year or so later Ronaldo was sold to the same 'mob'. Do you think Fergie also boxed himself into a corner with his statement and subsequently 'lost face'?
I love how so many of us are getting so paranoid about this transfer that we are ready to grasp at any statement to turn it into some sort of a perceived loss for Dortmund (Zorc).
If we bid a record figure for the lad (like we seemingly will have to), the last person losing face will be zorc.
I think if we stump up 120m he can very easily spin it as his win. He'll happily claim that no other player went even close to that number this summer, he was a tough negotiator and got what he wanted etc. etc. No loss of face as far as I'm concerned.
The question is if he's willing to accept a lower number and still save face somehow. I can imagine dortmund fans would be somewhat miffed if he makes a U turn and accepts 120m with incentives like Sancho winning the CL / Ballon d'or.
Fully agree. The only reason I quoted SportBild was because I answered to a user who referred to Falk (a reporter of SportBild) and claimed that he said the deal is not from the table. Just posted it to show that SportBild published an opposing piece of information to that and I doubt they'd do it if they had differing infos.
That's what I believe, too. I think they preferred selling Sancho next year anyway given his extension but felt obliged to negotiate because they promised Sancho to let him go for a certain price in the season following his extension. That also explains why they weren't willing to negotiate: They didn't really want to let him leave in the first place so they aren't afraid of failed negotiations. Of course Sancho could go on strike but he doesn't seem to eager to leave either which makes sense given the Corona situation. He could stay at Dortmund for another year and speculate that he gets a better deal in a recovered market and after the EC.
I think it would take much for him to eat his words. Sancho doing a Dembele/Aubameyang so that Dortmund fans have a scapegoat and one can argue that he had no other choice. But I think he went too far to just back out. As I said, the thing with the contract extension is a new piece of information for me. That in mind I don't think that they wanted to sell at all but felt obliged to because of a promise to Sancho. I imagine the extension was a "win win deal" - Sancho earns more and can still leave if he wants to and Dortmund has a better negotiating position in the upcoming window. Obviously Covid interferred but Sancho doesn't seem to mind too much. He probably expected a bigger deal, too. Maybe he's not really happy with the offers on the table either.
Alternatively, United's offer is so far off the asked demand that Zorc is convinced there won't be an agreement anyway. And if that's the case he probably has his reasons.
But that's just my impression.
Zorc has no face to lose. He’s done this before and never bothered him. This has been going on for a year or more now. Either we want Sancho or we don’t. Decide ,act and move on. The lad rumoured now to be on the verge of putting in a transfer request.
Because you are a selling club.... thats why you are publicly saying you will sell him but want it done by x date. Thats why you keep selling your best players instead of building a squad, and why Bayern are now a one horse race for the league year in and out.
The only way you wont sell is if we dont want to meet the demands dortmund put on the deal, and there is posturing to make it look like you refused to sell and have the upper hand. If a player is not for sale you just say not for sale, not ‘want to sell him by 10th august’.
Dont get the PR posturing, its not going to stop bayern wiping the floor with the bundesliga again
Think you have to take into account the current situation of Dortmund. The fans are desperate to become a top club and been on the edge of that since almost 10 years. Lost their top players multiple times. Many cycles of going two steps forward and moving back one. Everywhere they read that they're a feeder club and won't get at the top if they can't convince their star players of staying. It's not so much about finances anymore. The mood in the fanbase is different which is why they're so happy Sancho stays. I think with some there's even the hope that they can hold onto him, Haaland, Reyna, Moukoko for good if they only keep them together long enough. They arranged themselves that they'll lose Sancho, they won't be happy if he's taken away from them again after Zorc said he'll stay. And I think Zorc, Watzke etc. know this very well. Especially with Hoeneß lurking around the corner just waiting for his moment to belittle Dortmund again for losing their top players.
Thank you for replacing the player with a painting. It's literally the same thing but somehow so much clearer.
I've always been curious what does a transfer request really do?.
Edit: I realise sancho loses money in loyalty fee but that can be negated through his contract from United, I never really see the point of transfer requests.
Can somebody explain further?.
Edit: I realise sancho loses money in loyalty fee but that can be negated through his contract from United, I never really see the point of transfer requests.
Can somebody explain further?.
Alright, I tend to agree with the "selling club" argument even if I don't like the judgemental tone that term seems to have attached to it. Dortmund are a team that are to a certain extent dependent on player sales. This is true. This does however not mean that they have to sell any player at any given time.
My interpretation is that Dortmund had an agreement with Sancho to let him move if a club paid a certain amount by a certain date. I would assume that this was part of the new deal he signed in 2019. This window has closed and now Dortmund are no longer selling the player. I don't think they were ever interested in selling him this summer but also did not want to go against their word to the player. Right now they say they won't sell and I am not convinced that they would at the €120m either.
Necessary disclaimer for this thread: I do not claim to know the absolute truth, Sancho could still be sold, I would just be surprised.
I imagine it lets other clubs know he's interested, while possibly activating clauses in the contract
Start badgering for the chairman to make a offer, last time the fans turned on him we went on to sign our targets and not lost many either.
More like, if that's the case, you should put it to a rest. If you want to buy something you'll need to pay the asking price, simple as.
The guy has produced stellar stats over the past 2 seasons, yet he gets declared some sort of unproven talent just to bolster some "fair price"-narrative.
If Sancho was your player and some club stopped by arguing like that, you'd declare them insane.
The flaw here is if there was such an agreement between Dortmund and Sancho, then United would have known the date was firm and this would have been one of the simplest transfers of all time.
Basically this. If the clubs can agree a fee (we will need to basically pay what they want), then Dortmund don't lose face. They can spin it as a they've received a record bid during Covid for a player who wanted out.
This basically comes down to do we want him enough to pay the full amount (and can we afford it).
First of all, statements like this is very similar to very many other high profile transfers , both for Dortmund and United.
Secondly, none of our own briefs had says anything about the deal is off, which they would do if it is really off.
I think Dortmund is saying it just so they can get an replacement cheaper before the deal goes through.
Edit: and also so it seems they did everything they could but the player handed in a transfer request.
And Kagawa and Micky didn't also come with great seasons for Dortmund under their belts, only to flop at Man Utd?
We obviously spoke to them, given that we were interested in doing such a deal, but Dybala preferred to stay at Juventus and that was it.
Don't be daft.
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