Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[The Boy]

The tactic does seem to work though, other posters have shown how you eventually got Bruno for a lower price than Sporting initially quoted

As for Maguire, Simon Stone reports here that you had a bid rejected for 70 million, but Leicester waned 90 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49166507

Then a month later you got him for 80 million, so you got 10 mill off negotiating https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49224905.

Even if Dortmund drop the price by 10 million quid, that's still well worth negotiating.

 

[The Cat]

When this happens shouldn't there be a red welcome to Manchester billboard put up with Sancho on it?

 

[crossy1686]

Not sure Dortmund can take 70-60M hit on Sancho by keeping him for another year imo. We have an upper hand in these negotiations, especially, during the covid times.

They can't and won't take the hit. When they look at the deal, they'd rather have a third payment in as many years for £20m than get an £80m for him next summer.

 

[Alemar]

:"Although very unlikely, United are willing to walk away and focus on other targets if needed".

The problem is, there are simply no other targets in this position of comparable quality. As such, unless Utd are willing to focus on targets in different position, this is way too obvious a bullshit.

 

[crossy1686]

The tactic does seem to work though, other posters have shown how you eventually got Bruno for a lower price than Sporting initially quoted

As for Maguire, Simon Stone reports here that you had a bid rejected for 70 million, but Leicester waned 90 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49166507

Then a month later you got him for 80 million, so you got 10 mill off negotiating https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49224905.

Even if Dortmund drop the price by 10 million quid, that's still well worth negotiating.

Exactly, we're not talking a couple of quid here.

 

[E-mal]

I think the perception that Woodward is a mug is a tad unfair.
The obsession with united and the need to villify Ed has blinded people's perception of how difficult transfers are.
Barça have paid over the odds for Dembele, Coutinho and alot of players. We aren't the only ones who have overpaid for players but because we have seen little or no success in the years Woodward has been here he is often made the villian. He inherited a bad squad and a manager that was forced on him by a legendary outgoing manager who is considered infallible and rightly so.

Most steps he has taken in my opinion has been justified. He has backed every manager that has come in and when he hasn't, it has been mostly justified. Like every club we are bound to have our transfer failings. Madrid have not been able to sign Pogba in the last few years but it isn't a problem because of the success they've achieved, same applies to Barca and Chelsea.
The only team that has been efficient with transfers and have gotten value for money is Liverpool and these things have some element of luck in them.


Moving forward though, we are not in a position to play hardball because of how important this summer is for us. We need to close the gap. But when we are sitting comfortably with some success and a stable squad we can begin to call the bluffs of selling clubs.

I feel for Woodward because no matter what he does, he will be considered naive.

He also needs a DOF that can assist in building a genuine quality squad that is stable and competitive. When we have done that, we can relax and become savvy in our dealings.

 

[RuudTom83]

I don't mind the transfer fee because that is just whatever number the selling club will accept, its not really anything Sancho can do about it.

But his salary is more important, United should be very aware that the potential attack line will be of a similar age and if Jason is on a substancial higher salary then Rashford/Martial, then it could affect the squad.

Bruno really was the perfect transfer in terms of fees and salary! makes you appreciate him even more if that's possible!

 

[Amir]

Like most big transfers then. People still not understanding this aspect at this point in time is so weird isn't it. It's been this way for ages.

Yeah, but then we go and give Leicester the entire sum for Maguire in one lump.

 

[Paxi]

Yes, when you win you can build any narrative.

Ultimately Woodward runs the club, so he gets the criticism. IMO he did well to back all the managers but people would argue the managers were wrong choice.

It’s hard to know what really goes on. We get nuggets of information. I know we should have signed Maguire a year earlier but then it was with Mourinho who is just as erratic in the transfer market and whilst we didn’t sign Maguire, we also correctly didn’t sign Perisic and sell Martial.

I think he’s doing a decent job but I just think that he’s very transparent right to the point where he hired a pr manager in Neil Ashton and it was all over the bloody news by Neil Ashton himself.

 

[Glorio]

Can't blame Ed for trying. He's not a giddy fan so he'll be less emotive about this, plus he has other targets in other positions which we need good money for as well I'm sure. The man's trying to do a job for the club (we'll see whether it's the right approach or not) by trying to drive down the price of this one.

He's probably emboldened by the fact that no one else is interested and we're not as desperate as we were for a right sided attacker in January for instance. Feel free to blame Greenwood!
Thing is though, we need another attacker, and Sancho makes the most sense because of the quality and also the flexibility he'll bring to that front line. I wonder if there might also be talks for a younger and longer-term version of Ighalo for backup

 

[JPRouve]

Is Woodward negotiating the deal? Going by his interviews and few reports it's Matt Judge and usually clubs use middle man to negotiate these deals.

The same journalists talking about Woodward will discreetly mention Pini Zahavi or Mendes when the deal is done. United have been using intermediaries for several seasons now with Zahavi seemingly the favored option.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The tactic does seem to work though, other posters have shown how you eventually got Bruno for a lower price than Sporting initially quoted

As for Maguire, Simon Stone reports here that you had a bid rejected for 70 million, but Leicester waned 90 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49166507

Then a month later you got him for 80 million, so you got 10 mill off negotiating https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49224905.

Even if Dortmund drop the price by 10 million quid, that's still well worth negotiating.

6 days later, going by the dates on those stories.

Additionally, I just realised that we signed Maguire exactly one year ago today

 

[crossy1686]

The problem is, there are simply no other targets in this position of comparable quality. As such, unless Utd are willing to focus on targets in different position, this is way too obvious a bullshit.

It may be but it got everyone in this thread all worked up, didn't it? And now United control the transfer narrative of "We'll pay what we want and if we decide to pay €120m it was on our terms".

If we do pay full whack, which we most likely will, it can't be perceived to have been easy for Dortmund, otherwise what will happen when we approach Villa for Grealish next week? Or any other player for that matter?

 

[Lynty]

Agreed, it's probably very pointless. If I was in charge I'd put up loads of rumours about us being close to signing some other right winger like Zaha just to make it look more plausible. It's so obvious we're desperate for Sancho and we'll pay the 120 million euros sooner or later.

Like this...

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At this point it doesn't matter. It's obvious we've got the blinkers on and are coming for Sancho, it would take a serious bid for Messi, Mbappe or Neymar for Dortmund to even start to believe we're going to walk away from this transfer.

 

[AneRu]

Utds proposal?

I think this is the payment structure Dortmund will be comfortable with. I think the sticking point is that we don't want the remaining €20m to be guaranteed but to come in as bonuses so this is why most journos are confident that a deal will be done.

 

[Paxi]

The perception is wrong. We are the best run football business on the planet, our valuation of players is definitely different from most other clubs and that's why we lose out on players that dont fit that brief. It's also why we're able to look at 100m transfers in this environment without the aid of a sugar daddy.

I’m not sure whether we’re the best run but you definitely can’t argue with our financial position. There are many aspects to running a successful business. Financial stability is one of the most important aspects of course.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

When this happens shouldn't there be a red welcome to Manchester billboard put up with Sancho on it?

Haha, good idea.

Would work better if he'd made a few appearances there though, and made his mark.

Most of city's plastic fans won't know any city player outside who they can play as on FIFA

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I can’t see wages being a problem and sure he is a very promising if not elite talent in football but should his wages currently be more than Rashfords and Martials probably not. It should be comparable to them That’s for sure.

 

[crossy1686]

Haha, good idea.

Would work better if he'd made a few appearances there though, and made his mark.

Most of city's plastic fans won't know any city player outside who they can play as on FIFA

If we make anything about this signing slightly related to City, it's about as small-time as it gets

 

[DatIrishFella]

Anyone else hate the term "bullied" in regards to transfer rumours?

Like, it doesnt even make sense.

Utd: "Hi we want Sancho"
Dortmund: "Hi we want €120m"
Utd: "We wont be bullied"
BD: "lol what does that even mean"
Utd: "WE WONT BE BULLIED"

So silly.

 

[Houdini]

We need a "Here we go!" and a new F5 button!

 

[crossy1686]

I can’t see wages being a problem and sure he is a very promising if not elite talent in football but should his wages currently be more than Rashfords and Martials probably not. It should be comparable to them That’s for sure.

He's younger than the pair though. He will most likely come in on parity with bonuses and wage hikes involved for winning stuff

 

[saivet]

The tactic does seem to work though, other posters have shown how you eventually got Bruno for a lower price than Sporting initially quoted

As for Maguire, Simon Stone reports here that you had a bid rejected for 70 million, but Leicester waned 90 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49166507

Then a month later you got him for 80 million, so you got 10 mill off negotiating https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49224905.

Even if Dortmund drop the price by 10 million quid, that's still well worth negotiating.

I think with Bruno the total value was the same but we ended up paying less up front and more in potential add ons than what Sporting initially wanted.

 

[The Boy]

6 days later, going by the dates on those stories.

Additionally, I just realised that we signed Maguire exactly one year ago today

The story says the bid was earlier in July, I have no idea of the exact date of the bid so guessed about a month!

 

[crossy1686]

I think with Bruno the total value was the same but we ended up paying less up front and more in potential add ons than what Sporting initially wanted.

Ed best hope we don't win the league or CL at this point, we'll be bankrupted overnight with the amount of add-ons we'll have to pay out

 

[Alemar]

If we do pay full whack, which we most likely will, it can't be perceived to have been easy for Dortmund, otherwise what will happen when we approach Villa for Grealish next week? Or any other player for that matter?

It is several times less important with Grealish - he would come as a competition option / squad depth, and there are many comparable alternatives in world football. Grealish is not the world beater - just a player who had one very good season in a weak team. Sancho, on the contrary, is a generational talent in a position we badly need to strengthen.

 

[freeurmind]

When this happens shouldn't there be a red welcome to Manchester billboard put up with Sancho on it?

We have more class than that. No need to be noisy when you own the biggest house on the street.

 

[AneRu]

Not sure Dortmund can take 70-60M hit on Sancho by keeping him for another year imo. We have an upper hand in these negotiations, especially, during the covid times.

What guarantee is that that they will take a 60m hit next season. Next season many clubs would have recovered financially and some, Chelsea for example, would have finished strengthening on the areas they needed to prioritize this season and might be more willing to spend close to £70m to £90 on him.

I know we should try to get as low a fee as possible because that £20m could very well sign another important player from the lower leagues but it shouldn't be at the expense of antagonizing the selling club or the player.

The way Dortmund are willing to structure the deal also makes it less of a financial hit because after this summer we shouldn't need significant investment in the playing squad for a couple of years if we get a couple of players in.

 

[11101]

I’m not sure whether we’re the best run but you definitely can’t argue with our financial position. There are many aspects to running a successful business. Financial stability is one of the most important aspects of course.

However you word it, we definitely place a different value on players than other clubs. We will pay whatever it takes for some but be positively miserly on others. Pogba was one but look at the marketing power he brings. Sancho appears to be another, we see a young, English, black future star and we could have the England front 3 in our team for the next 10 years. It's a marketing dream and why I dont think we will let it slip over money. Players like Haaland and Bellingham didnt have that commercial potential.

 

[crossy1686]

It is several times less important with Grealish - he would come as a competition option / squad depth, and there are many comparable alternatives in world football. Grealish is not the world beater - just a player who had one very good season in a weak team. Sancho, on the contrary, is a generational talent in a position we badly need to strengthen.

I'm not disputing any of that but signing just Sancho this window doesn't change a whole lot. We still have a Bruno shaped hole in the team when he doesn't play and we need to address that also this summer if we want to win something next season. We can't view every transfer in isolation, they're all linked. Just look at what the Neymar deal did to the whole market, these are things we need to consider, which is why there's this need for media warfare.

 

[UncleBob]

However you word it, we definitely place a different value on players than other clubs. We will pay whatever it takes for some but be positively miserly on others. Pogba was one but look at the marketing power he brings. Sancho appears to be another, we see a young, English, black future star and we could have the England front 3 in our team for the next 10 years. It's a marketing dream and why I dont think we will let it slip over money. Players like Haaland and Bellingham didnt have that commercial potential.

Since when weren't we willing to pay whatever needed for Haaland and Bellingham, the issue was that both had different ideas about where they wanted to go.

 

[Paxi]

Not entirely sure how you ended up with the notion that he missed out on Bellingham and Haaland.

In terms of the Sancho deal, we're talking about an insane fee of around £108mill, it should hardly be a fecking surprise to anyone that there's going to be a discussion about how such a deal should be structured and that there's obviously going to be a difference in opinion.

We were clearly in for those two and they ended up elsewhere — we missed out. And that’s fine, it happens all the time. I don’t think we needed to plant stories that Bellingham wanted too much money, or that Riola wanted too much money like we did. We all know that’s not true.

We paid Mino a huge chunk in Pogba deal and we’ve offered 30k to Gomes whom, albeit a talent, only started a few games for us and hence I don’t see a problem with the 55k a week Bellingham would have wanted. Considering we were willing to drop 30 million quid on him in the first place.

Problem is, people will blame Ed Woodward for every transfer that doesn’t go through.

 

[sglowrider]

They can't and won't take the hit. When they look at the deal, they'd rather have a third payment in as many years for £20m than get an £80m for him next summer.

You think Woodward knows something about Dortmund's finance -- like what we did with Sporting/Bruno?

 

[crossy1686]

Don't City stand to make £15m from this transfer? I'm sure United would rather not have to give them the money. Surely us playing add-ons over installments mean the transfer fee is lower and City get less?

 

[laughtersassassin]

I can’t see wages being a problem and sure he is a very promising if not elite talent in football but should his wages currently be more than Rashfords and Martials probably not. It should be comparable to them That’s for sure.

Romano said 250 with all incentives activated. So same as Rashford

 

[ivaldo]

Anyone else hate the term "bullied" in regards to transfer rumours?

Like, it doesnt even make sense.

Utd: "Hi we want Sancho"
Dortmund: "Hi we want €120m"
Utd: "We wont be bullied"
BD: "lol what does that even mean"
Utd: "WE WONT BE BULLIED"

So silly.

You forgot

Dortmund: Sancho is not for sale
United: We want him
Dortmund: Sancho is a Dortmund player
Sancho: I want to join United
Dortmund: Sancho is not for sale
United: We are going to make a bid
Dortmund: We will only accept all the money up front
Dortmund: Alright, we will accept installments

 

[Zlatans Knee]

What I don't understand in all of this is the protocol for the negotiations, does it go something like this:
United: "Hi, we want Sancho"
Dortmund: "Ok, it will cost you 120 million"
United (one day later): "We will give you 70 (I made that figure up for the sake of this discussion)"
Dortmund: "We said 120"
United (one day later): "We will give you 72"
Dortmund: "120"
United (two days later): "75, plus we will not be bullied"

Why does it take so long? What manner of technology do they use to communicate with each other? Clearly Dortmund are prepared to sell and we want to buy. How can it take so long to come to an agreement? If they are miles apart from the first discussion then it should become quickly obvious when to walk away. On the other hand, if they are not that far apart from the beginning then it should not take that long to come to an agreement.

 

[duffer]

I don't really buy into the "briefing the press" as a means to help the negotiation.

If Man United want Dortmund to know that they're prepared to walk away from the deal (or vice versa), they'll tell them, not shyly ask some footy "journalist" to pass on the message.

The leaks are to manage expectations from everyone not involved in the negotiations.

 

[Smithy89]

What I don't understand in all of this is the protocol for the negotiations, does it go something like this:
United: "Hi, we want Sancho"
Dortmund: "Ok, it will cost you 120 million"
United (one day later): "We will give you 70 (I made that figure up for the sake of this discussion)"
Dortmund: "We said 120"
United (one day later): "We will give you 72"
Dortmund: "120"
United (two days later): "75, plus we will not be bullied"

Why does it take so long? What manner of technology do they use to communicate with each other? Clearly Dortmund are prepared to sell and we want to buy. How can it take so long to come to an agreement? If they are miles apart from the first discussion then it should become quickly obvious when to walk away. On the other hand, if they are not that far apart from the beginning then it should not take that long to come to an agreement.

Pigeons i heard.

 

[krautrøck]

Fax machines.