Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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mu4c_20le

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Compare it to Dembele in 2017. Same age, Sancho is a bigger talent and has proven more. Dembele was forcing a move and skipping training etc. Dortmund sold him for €105m + €40m. They're allegedly asking for €80m + €40m for Sancho. I'd say thats a fair price all things considered.
Yeah but that was pre covid craziness.. doubt we'll see that again for some time. Maybe we will blink in the end, but unlike most I am happy that we are taking this to the last day of their silly deadline instead of just stumping up the cash like bozos.
 

Nou_Camp99

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You could question the "generational talent" claims if he was only performing domestically, but he's consistently scoring and assisting at every level of the game, which is always a fair indicator as to a player's ability.

The Bundesliga:
Played: 32
Goals: 17
Assists: 16


The Champions League:
Played: 8
Goals: 2
Assists: 1

For England:
Played 6:
Goals: 2
Assists: 2

Plus tonnes of goals and assists for City and England U21's.

Rashford by comparison:

The Premier League:
Played: 31
Goals: 17
Assists: 7


The Europa League:
Played: 8
Goals: 2
Assists: 1

For England:
Played 6:
Goals: 3
Assists: 0

Rashford holds his own in the goal-scoring department, but Sancho leaves him for dead where assists are concerned.

Rashford is considered to have had a very good campaign, with pundits, the media and fans praising him left, right and center, yet Sancho has surpassed him after playing at a higher level (the CL).
This doesn't take into effect how the Bundeliga is shite though. Sancho is a top quality player there's no getting away from it but he's not putting those kind of numbers up next season for us if he joins. No chance.
 

laughtersassassin

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It's so funny to me seeing our fans defend the Glazers and Ed for if they let Ole down.

Ole held up his end of the bargain by coming 3rd. We all knew Sancho would cost 120 mil and he would have cost even more before Covid.

Oles top target for two seasons.
 

laughtersassassin

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Yeah but that was pre covid craziness.. doubt we'll see that again for some time. Maybe we will blink in the end, but unlike most I am happy that we are taking this to the last day of their silly deadline instead of just stumping up the cash like bozos.
Napoli bought a one season wonder for 70mil off Lille two weeks ago. This is Jason Sancho.

Covid has effected some teams ability to spend for sure but prices of players hasn't taken a hot one bit. 40 million for a relegated Ake.

Nothing has changed. 120 for Sancho while a lot of money is easily what he is worth.
 

laughtersassassin

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Are they? they're not too bad imo. touch wood.
Over a season they will always be injured more than a the like if Salah and Mane. Even mason has had his injury issue but hopefully he grows out of them. I imagine we would end up seeing way too much of Dan James if we kept our current attack. Would cost us a lot.

Sure look at what we could have done this season with an extra attacker of acceptable quality. Rash and Martial practically didn't play together till after the lockdown.
 

laughtersassassin

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Enough to win the league? No but i think enough to qualify for CL next year fairly comfortably and put up some good cup runs. Then maybe next year we can go in for Sancho.
We need to progress not stagnate. Sancho next season would be a though ask. To stand still in football is to ask to be left behind.
 

bosnian_red

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Yeah but that was pre covid craziness.. doubt we'll see that again for some time. Maybe we will blink in the end, but unlike most I am happy that we are taking this to the last day of their silly deadline instead of just stumping up the cash like bozos.
Pre covid craziness.... but 3 years ago. Sancho is a bigger talent, and Dembele forced a move through by acting like a shit, skipping training, etc.
Sancho has been professional and isn't leaving on bad terms if he does leave. So €25m less for a better talent, 3 years later and a happier player. Thats a Covid offset right there.
 

Alemar

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You could question the "generational talent" claims if he was only performing domestically, but he's consistently scoring and assisting at every level of the game, which is always a fair indicator as to a player's ability.

The Bundesliga:
Played: 32
Goals: 17
Assists: 16


The Champions League:
Played: 8
Goals: 2
Assists: 1

For England:
Played 6:
Goals: 2
Assists: 2

Plus tonnes of goals and assists for City and England U21's.

Rashford by comparison:

The Premier League:
Played: 31
Goals: 17
Assists: 7


The Europa League:
Played: 8
Goals: 2
Assists: 1

For England:
Played 6:
Goals: 3
Assists: 0

Rashford holds his own in the goal-scoring department, but Sancho leaves him for dead where assists are concerned.

Rashford is considered to have had a very good campaign, with pundits, the media and fans praising him left, right and center, yet Sancho has surpassed him after playing at a higher level (the CL).
Significant part of Rashford goals were penalties. If you compare non-penalty goals, the picture changes
 

Utdstar01

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Over a season they will always be injured more than a the like if Salah and Mane. Even mason has had his injury issue but hopefully he grows out of them. I imagine we would end up seeing way too much of Dan James if we kept our current attack. Would cost us a lot.

Sure look at what we could have done this season with an extra attacker of acceptable quality. Rash and Martial practically didn't play together till after the lockdown.
I would just call it rotten luck. Rashford has played a lot of games for us since he burst onto the scene. I Can't recall him having a long term injury before the spine fracture at all.
 

SwedishFish

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Forget next year. There'll be other takers next year. It's now or never.

I'd be happy if he was the only signing of the summer even.
 

TheLord

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I'd also argue that Sancho and Mbappe are at a similar level already. Different styles of play, but Sancho is a phenomenon, just like KM.
I love upping players we like, but I can't believe so many in the Cafe lose objectivity in this process.

KM is the best attacking youngster in world football and no one comes close - certainly not Sancho - at least not now anyway.

Mbappe is a World Cup winner (and he had stellar moments in the WC), winner of the UEFA European Under-19 Championship with France, winner of three League titles with PSG, and someone who has scored nearly 1 goal every League match for the past three years.

Sancho may be a better player than KM in a few years time, but KM is a class-apart right now.
 

Kaizane

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If I am Glazers, I don't sanction this move with COVID and uncertainty around revenues for some time to come. I'd be surprised if Sancho is a United player by season start.
Why go to table with Dortmund in the first place in that case? Dortmund have been consistent with their valuation of the player before the window opened, it's no shock to the club that they want the money they do.
 

Mihai

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Ole wouldn't like that.
I think a lot of people don't yet understand the severity of the current situation. And not just in football. I am pretty sure Ole will understand if we have to walk away due to Borussia's high demands.
 

Castia

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It’s now or never isn’t it. Next year they’ll be a queue of clubs after him with his contract running down.
 

ChaddyP

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Why go to table with Dortmund in the first place in that case? Dortmund have been consistent with their valuation of the player before the window opened, it's no shock to the club that they want the money they do.
Also we clearly aren't in for anyone else. Got caught lying we were in for Coman. :lol:
 

Random Task

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This doesn't take into effect how the Bundeliga is shite though. Sancho is a top quality player there's no getting away from it but he's not putting those kind of numbers up next season for us if he joins. No chance.
The point of that post was to show he is consistent both domestically and on the European stage, which suggests he will be equally as consistent in the PL. Remember he's an ex-City player, so he's no stranger to the intensity of English football.
 

NYAS

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So what do we make of the quietness of the last few days? Deep in discussions or is it at such an impasse that both parties have nothing to talk about?
 

SwedishFish

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If I am Glazers, I don't sanction this move with COVID and uncertainty around revenues for some time to come. I'd be surprised if Sancho is a United player by season start.
The main income for our revenues is through commercial deals. We will lose out quite a bit on matchday revenue as well of course, but certainly not as much as say a Tottenham or Arsenal that makes a lot of money selling executive boxes in fancy new stadiums.

We're getting hit, but not that badly hit. We can still afford Jadon Sancho especially with the clause in our Adidas contract which ups our revenue by 20 million compared to last year after we qualified for the Champions League.
 

Brownie85

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So what do we make of the quietness of the last few days? Deep in discussions or is it at such an impasse that both parties have nothing to talk about?
Pretty sure if there was a solid impasse, it would have been reported in some manner and the media would have ran with it. Plus the likes of Romero and Falk would have reported it too.
Just the standard negotiations i think. My guess is United is happy to pay the 120m, but they want to do it in installments and Dortmund want most upfront. There will be a happy medium but just have to find it.
 

Mihai

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Agreed. I think it's daft to sanction the spend of that much in a season with so much uncertainty coming up. If COIVD continues to impact the economy Dortmund will get about £50m for Sancho next summer so there's no point in going mental now because they're being dicks.
Finally a logical point in this whole thread.
 

AmanNits04

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Napoli bought a one season wonder for 70mil off Lille two weeks ago. This is Jason Sancho.

Covid has effected some teams ability to spend for sure but prices of players hasn't taken a hot one bit. 40 million for a relegated Ake.

Nothing has changed. 120 for Sancho while a lot of money is easily what he is worth.
I would be worried if were spending 120 million on Jason Sancho, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind spending that much on Jadon Sancho :D
Jokes apart, I agree with you. The pandemic hasn't really affected that much, clubs who need to buy will have to spend, no matter what.
 

do.ob

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Pretty sure if there was a solid impasse, it would have been reported in some manner and the media would have ran with it. Plus the likes of Romero and Falk would have reported it too.
Just the standard negotiations i think. My guess is United is happy to pay the 120m, but they want to do it in installments and Dortmund want most upfront. There will be a happy medium but just have to find it.
You mean like reports stating that both clubs are still very far apart, because United plead Covid and Dortmund don't want to lower their demand?
 

Suedesi

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The main income for our revenues is through commercial deals. We will lose out quite a bit on matchday revenue as well of course, but certainly not as much as say a Tottenham or Arsenal that makes a lot of money selling executive boxes in fancy new stadiums.

We're getting hit, but not that badly hit. We can still afford Jadon Sancho especially with the clause in our Adidas contract which ups our revenue by 20 million compared to last year after we qualified for the Champions League.
And going forward, commercial revenues (i.e. advertising) will probably get repriced. I've seen it first hand, first thing that gets cut in a crisis is advertising/marketing revenue.
So it would be insane to dump 120M Euros into Borussia hands with so much uncertainty going forward. Wait a year and you can save 70M or wait 2 years and get the boy free.

I'm just speaking as a business person not as a muppet fan.
 

Knux

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So the club should just drop their price 15m because the player wants to move but is happy enough to wait it out if it doesnt happen? The player signed a contract. Just like Pogba with united. The club sets the terms of how they leave.

And you're wrong on the market. There's 2 different markets. One where the club doesn't want to sell a player, where they're only sold if their asking price is met. The other where the club wants to sell a player but is dependent on what is being offered. Sancho is very much in the grouping of club doesn't want to sell but will sell if a fair price is offered, and they set the fair price to he €120m (which is fair, all things considered).

In 2017 they sold a 20 year old Dembele to Barca for €105m + €40m in add ons, after Dembele season skipping training and forcing a move. Jadon Sancho is a bigger talent than Dembele was at the time, proved a lot more, and hasn't been forcing a move. So 3 years later, same age and a better player (who isn't forcing a move), they're asking for €25m less. It's pay up or shut up, and that's all there is to it.
It’s still the same market mate. Not two different markets. But I get what you’re saying. They don’t want to sell, therefore won’t lower their asking price which is fine. But the market is still the same. Price just different.

Sancho do want to leave this year. He is professional and don’t want to miss out on lotalty bonuses, unlike Dembele.
Comparing Dembele and Sancho is not really fair though. Barca overpayed massively and had just got 222 million from PSG for Neymar (which Dortmund knew) and were desperate for a replacement.

We are also pretty desperate for an RW and I do think 120M is a decent price. But if the club feels it’s too much in this covid-times then it’s time to move with other signings. I get the feeling that the club let’s Ole down if they walk away from this opporunity.
 

Mihai

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It's so funny to me seeing our fans defend the Glazers and Ed for if they let Ole down.

Ole held up his end of the bargain by coming 3rd. We all knew Sancho would cost 120 mil and he would have cost even more before Covid.

Oles top target for two seasons.
Some fans are realistic. Nothing to do with glazers or Woodward.
 

SATA

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Fecking Dortmund being dicks. Next time they want a player from us we should do exactly the same back to them. Didn’t we let Kagawa go back there for a cheap fee on the basis of goodwill for the player and his former club? And we have met their demands and paying the full 120M of their valuation of the player
 

Mihai

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The main income for our revenues is through commercial deals. We will lose out quite a bit on matchday revenue as well of course, but certainly not as much as say a Tottenham or Arsenal that makes a lot of money selling executive boxes in fancy new stadiums.

We're getting hit, but not that badly hit. We can still afford Jadon Sancho especially with the clause in our Adidas contract which ups our revenue by 20 million compared to last year after we qualified for the Champions League.
Commercial deals and TV revenue will take a hit as well if things continue to go ahead like this.
 

Brownie85

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You mean like reports stating that both clubs are still very far apart, because United plead Covid and Dortmund don't want to lower their demand?
You mean like the brief that United put out obviously to put pressure on Dortmund, with Dortmund countering it within 24 hours? It's the typical United transfer way... saying we'll walk away and look elsewhere unless the price is dropped before ultimately paying up anyway.
There will be a resolution soon, i'm sure of it. Just have to ride it out as per usual transfer sagas involving United.
 

DSG

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'generational talent' is abit of a leap.
No you can’t have more than one generational player at a time. That’s literally what it means.

Problem is people are making up a new definition of generational talent left, right and centre.

feck knows which one yours is.
Right, there can be only one generational talent.... So, using your definition of only one... Who is the "generational talent" between Ronaldo and Messi? Both have an argument as the greatest player of all time... Both ARE generational talents, they just happen to be in the same generation.

And by the way, here's the list of players in the top 5 leagues to have 15 goals and 15 assists in league play over a single season since 2006:
Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Eden Hazard
Luis Suarez

That's it. I think that if we paid 120m for Sancho, and we got performances over several years equal to those four players, we'd be happy.
 

Okey

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Nightmare. Why do our transfers always have to be like this???
 

Robertd0803

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Someone’s mate who works overlooking old Trafford saw white smoke coming from Old Trafford and hoped it was for Sancho’s unveiling video.
Oh ok thanks.

Heres me thinking it was in reference to a new Pope being announced and there was news.
 

Santoryo

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Are they? they're not too bad imo. touch wood.
They're not. The Caf just love over stating every single thing that happened to us. Martial and Rahsford both had bad injuries this season which kept them out for 2 months each but they aren't injury prone. Some people on these boards want to act as if they've never heard of players getting injured.

Easier way to do this is to looks at their appearance stats the past years and let's see if anyone rational would claim that they are injury prone. They easily average 40+ appearances per season, those aren't injury prone numbers.

The Caf has just started this random new myth about them being injury prone. It's also like saying Pogba is injury prone because he had a bad injury this year which required surgery and kept him out for most of the season.
 

bsCallout

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This doesn't take into effect how the Bundeliga is shite though. Sancho is a top quality player there's no getting away from it but he's not putting those kind of numbers up next season for us if he joins. No chance.
Like Bruno wasn't going to produce the goods when he came from the farmers league?
 

Random Task

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Nightmare. Why do our transfers always have to be like this???
Because some guy had the bright idea of broadcasting our clubs' financial strength to anyone who would care to listen, which is something he would later come to regret. That same guy just so happens to be our clubs' primary transfer negotiator.
 

bsCallout

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Is it me or are MU purposely putting out a lot of debut content/tweets/features on their social media channels?

Is this a coincidence or part of a marketing strategy in preperation for Sanchos debut?

Maybe theyve always done this and I'm reading too much into it, but it seems a lot.
 
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