I agree with what you say but I think 120m is already including a “covid” discount. 2 years ago, a player of sancho’s Calibre would go for 160-200m. He’s one of the brightest talents in world football with already proven stats.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I must have imagined that summer Mourinho wanted a centre back. It’s not like he mentioned it much. It’s not like one of them was a player that we signed a year later for more money. And he didn’t get the managers selected targets or has Perisic signed for us?
I think he could. He'd lose his loyalty bonus at Dortmund, but then earn it back with interest through his pumped up wages at United, or whoever else may be able to afford him.
He'll maybe feel he owes Dortmund something for giving him his first shot at first team football, but his stats there plus what they paid for him compared to what they'll end up getting for him - either this summer or next - will be thanks enough imo.
People also seem to be forgetting this... Sancho unhappy with DFL
I don't think he wants to stay in Germany any longer than he needs to.
I admire the fact you still feel confident if he doesn't push for the move
I feel the same mate. He'll be a Man United player soon. No itk, just a gut feel. Where as we all know the likes of Dybala won't happen, this one will
I feel if Memphis re-joins another super club then the status would just go to his head again.
He's a good player,though.
He's a good player,though.
People on here lose faith to quickly.
Subjective. Club with its pulse on actual income to expense situation may deem the value lower.
Not to say value of 160-200m itself are inflated.
How is he unproven? 2 fantastic seasons in Bundesliga.
Figures here in this thread. 20m pounds for us.
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Yeah, that one.. that was more because Mourinho already bought Bailly and Lindelof and now he wanted more when he wasnt satisified. Stupid decision for sure, but there was a reason behind it
Yeah, Bailey hat a series of great performances in his second year that lasted maybe 10-15 games. He's never been the same ever since so that suggests he simply overperformed. Decent potential but atrocious decision making and composure. He has a great match once in a while, usually when we can focus on counter attacks and he can just go full head through the wall mode. Not even remotely good enough for EPL top 6 though. Still hope a mid table English club pays 30+m for him this season but in all honesty, 20-25 wouldbalsonbe okay for me in the Corona market.
Yeah but if we get Sancho we will be cementing our place in top 4 which is worth what 60m pounds?
It was a stupid reason. Bailly and Lindelof were still at the club when we bought Maguire anyway. If every club worked like that Bravo and Nolito would still be playing for City instead of Ederson and Bernardo Silva.
How are we poor at PR? That a bizarre statement.
Our recruitment process has had it's issues and been openly remedied. One adjustment was to bring in Matt Judge to lead negotiations
The idea that we're bad at negotiating is largely unfounded or outdated view, that has become a social media meme and regurgitated by people who have no real knowledge of how transfers work.
Nothing you said in the original post is wrong. But Matt Judge - who is far more experienced than yourself, intimately knows the details of this potential transfer and has been in communication with Dortmund - if he thinks this is still on. It's still on. We aren't going to waste time on dead transfers, and we haven't done since his arrival.
Regardless, even if renegotiation's result in nothing, there's still 54 days of the window to go - plenty time
We failed to sign Dybala? Isn't it clear that we are trying to stay away from these signings?
Juve were trying to get Lukaku, Dybala was never a target, he became a name we got linked with because of Lukaku.
Halaand chose Dortmund because of CL and and we didnt want a £60m release clause.
Borussia Dortmund Annual Report 2019
Borussia Dortmund Q3 Report 2020
Key numbers
Cash reserves 31 Mars 2020 = €18,78m
Cash reserves 31 Mars 2019 = €55,86m
Revolving credit 31 Mars 2020 = €60m
EBIT Q3 = €2.01m (minus €28m from 2018)
EBIT Q1 - Q3 = €7,39m
Net transfer income Q1 - Q3 = €38,98m (Q1-Q3 2019 = €77,22m)
Trade Payables 31 Mars 2020 = €98m (31 Mars 2019 = €60,6m)
Total Trade Payables = €139m
My comments
After reading two annual reports and the latest Q3 2020 report I can easily say that Borussia Dortmund (BD) is a very well managed club with a profitable business plan that make them competitive on highest international level. Buying players cheap and selling with profit is part of their business plan.
But COVID had changed the landscape. In their own words "they are hit hard by COVID and that will affect their future plans".
Sooner or later BD needs fresh cash, probably from player sales or using their revolving credit. Selling Sancho is a easy way to solve their problems and prepare for future financial losses. Keeping Sancho could benefit them short term but long term it will decrease his value. The million dollar question is when is the optimal date to sell him?
At this moment nobody can pay €120m in one installament. Probably not even in two intallament. From what I can see the maximun that Manchester United can pay in 2020 is in the region of €60 - 80M. Above €80m will come with significant short term risk in todays financial climate. From my perspective a package of €60M/€30m/€20m in three years installament is a very good deal for both clubs. BD get close their valuation and MU can afford the deal. If BD wait another season the value of Sancho can easily drop significant because of COVID, only two years left of the contract and if the player dont perform next season to expectations.
My best guess is that BD will sell Sancho soon rather then later if the total offer is close to €120m. Manchester Unted can probably only buy if they can pay the fee in three sensible installments. But as usual future will tell.
Borussia Dortmund Q3 Report 2020
Key numbers
Cash reserves 31 Mars 2020 = €18,78m
Cash reserves 31 Mars 2019 = €55,86m
Revolving credit 31 Mars 2020 = €60m
EBIT Q3 = €2.01m (minus €28m from 2018)
EBIT Q1 - Q3 = €7,39m
Net transfer income Q1 - Q3 = €38,98m (Q1-Q3 2019 = €77,22m)
Trade Payables 31 Mars 2020 = €98m (31 Mars 2019 = €60,6m)
Total Trade Payables = €139m
My comments
After reading two annual reports and the latest Q3 2020 report I can easily say that Borussia Dortmund (BD) is a very well managed club with a profitable business plan that make them competitive on highest international level. Buying players cheap and selling with profit is part of their business plan.
But COVID had changed the landscape. In their own words "they are hit hard by COVID and that will affect their future plans".
Sooner or later BD needs fresh cash, probably from player sales or using their revolving credit. Selling Sancho is a easy way to solve their problems and prepare for future financial losses. Keeping Sancho could benefit them short term but long term it will decrease his value. The million dollar question is when is the optimal date to sell him?
At this moment nobody can pay €120m in one installament. Probably not even in two intallament. From what I can see the maximun that Manchester United can pay in 2020 is in the region of €60 - 80M. Above €80m will come with significant short term risk in todays financial climate. From my perspective a package of €60M/€30m/€20m in three years installament is a very good deal for both clubs. BD get close their valuation and MU can afford the deal. If BD wait another season the value of Sancho can easily drop significant because of COVID, only two years left of the contract and if the player dont perform next season to expectations.
My best guess is that BD will sell Sancho soon rather then later if the total offer is close to €120m. Manchester Unted can probably only buy if they can pay the fee in three sensible installments. But as usual future will tell.
Thankfully Dortmund are no super club
How are we poor at PR? That a bizarre statement.
Our recruitment process has had it's issues and been openly remedied. One adjustment was to bring in Matt Judge to lead negotiations
The idea that we're bad at negotiating is largely unfounded or outdated view, that has become a social media meme and regurgitated by people who have no real knowledge of how transfers work.
Nothing you said in the original post is wrong. But Matt Judge - who is far more experienced than yourself, intimately knows the details of this potential transfer and has been in communication with Dortmund - if he thinks this is still on. It's still on. We aren't going to waste time on dead transfers, and we haven't done since his arrival.
Regardless, even if renegotiation's result in nothing, there's still 54 days of the window to go - plenty time
Who did that!
Paul Woolston isn't a real thing!
And AAAron Wan-Bissaka..?
We went from 2nd to 6th when we didn`t get a CB even though at the time our defensive record was solid. Do not underestimate how much of an impact not signing Sancho can cause unless we have a VERY good alternative up our sleeves
Selecting (and disagreeing) transfer targets is not the same as transfer negotiations.
I agree. I don't think we were ever seriously in for Dybala. But we don't definitely know so I included him, as that was the obvious comeback to my argument.
Its hard to know.
He's output before the league finished was very good but it could just have been a purple patch.
We were seriously in for Dybala. We came so far to negotiate and discover the image rights problem.
True that he really didnt want to come, but you never go as far as checking legal rights for the image rights if you are not seriously wanting to sign the player.
The "attitude" / "only want players that want to play for us" thing was just a PR ploy when it fell through.
That's the point though, it doesn't. Hence why we won't just pay exactly what Dortmund are asking for. We could as easily Cement our place in the top 4 with a couple of good signings without signing Sancho.
We've been linked to a lot of good alternatives, Dembele, Chiesa, Coman.
None of these are good alternatives.
Fair enough. I can't really recall the exact details of that little saga
Anyone else think that Utd would be more flexible on aspects of this deal if Dortmund were willing to ditch the intermediaries.
United were blatantly in negotiations for Perisic though. In fact we were rumoured to have agreed a fee for him and tried to change it too, as has now been rumoured regarding Sancho. There’s also more to negotiations than just eventually signing the player. Yes, we signed Maguire. But we signed him a few days before the end of the window when if we’d stopped fecking about we could’ve signed him sooner and then maybe moved on to the attacker that we desperately needed and had to wait until January for. Which almost ruined our entire season.
There’s also the issue with the fact we put all our eggs in one basket and seemingly can only negotiate one thing at a time. The failure to get rid of players that we haven’t wanted for years and even extending their contracts to protect the asset. Woodward is a fecking clown and there’s no way I can agree he’s had four successful transfer windows. At a push I’d say the first year under Mourinho was a a success and last year was an acceptable window.
No.
Agree to disagree then. I would rather play with McT and Sancho than say Partey and Chiesa.
They are if you're paying close to half the price and in some of those cases a loan. Sancho is clearly the best in class to purchase at this moment in time, but it might not be possibel to get him for a price we can afford. Those are some of the most talented youngsters in Europe, it's not like we're raiding the championship instead.
Thanks. You got in before me.
Also, momentum has to be factored in.
If we dropped back out of top4, the Ole out brigade would be more vocal. Players wanting to leave rumours start. Confidence isn't as high, nor is the fear factor, for opponents.
Strengthening the squad is necessary, but if the new additions don't raise the level of the first team, impact versus transfer fee & wages will not be profound.
Yes we tired towards the end of the season, but still posted very respectable results.
One thing people still don't seem to get is, Sancho can cover for all four front spots. That has to be more economical than getting a back up for AM, ST, LW (not ignoring James) and a first choice RW.
I would rather the former too, but I do think there seems to be an issue on how we structure this deal in order to afford it - so the latter would still be a very good window and we'd very likely keep top 4 with that.
That’s actually very informative. Never actually noticed the subtle change since 2016 when Matt took over.How are we poor at PR? That a bizarre statement.
Our recruitment process has had it's issues and been openly remedied. One adjustment was to bring in Matt Judge to lead negotiations
The idea that we're bad at negotiating is largely unfounded or outdated view, that has become a social media meme and regurgitated by people who have no real knowledge of how transfers work.
Nothing you said in the original post is wrong. But Matt Judge - who is far more experienced than yourself, intimately knows the details of this potential transfer and has been in communication with Dortmund - if he thinks this is still on. It's still on. We aren't going to waste time on dead transfers, and we haven't done since his arrival.
Regardless, even if renegotiation's result in nothing, there's still 54 days of the window to go - plenty time
Conan at DM? Would add a bit of steel
Yes.
I'm sure people said that after came second under Jose and decided that just buying Fred will do.
If your not striving to improve you are already going backwards.
Solid effort there
Dembele has been a disaster signing for Barcelona, none of those players are the type of players we should even be remotely interested in buying outright.
Sancho is not the only player in the world that can improve us though. That's just demonstrably not true.
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