They have quoted a price, but that price does not meet our evaluation of Sancho, which is £70 million last I heard, and neither side seems prepared to budge in this issue.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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I am just asking myself how Zorc would keep his face, if they sell Sancho to us now. The statement was very clear. They would surley lose their credibility.
Agreed. Do people not find it odd that despite Zorc's statement and the Dortmund social media campaign no one in Germany is saying the deal is dead? Falk who is the oracle over there even stated United have agreed personal terms yesterday so it's clear that Dortmund are indeed pushing their narrative but what's going on behind the scenes is slightly different. They have form for it.
My guess would be, that Ed really put up a lowballing effort. Something like 60m + 20m in add-ons has been quoted over the past days. That could have lead BD into believing he's either not serious, or that he thinks they aren't serious.
The lines are drawn now. You can still bank on Dortmund taking the 120m, if offered early enough. Main question is for me, whether Utd can/want raise the sum. That'll determine the outcome, and so far nobody has a clue.
After Aubameyang forced through his move Watzke said that this was the last time they would allow themselves to be bullied by misbehaviour. Whether that promise holds up should United cough up the money and Sancho act up is another question of course, but as far as the public goes there is no easy way out of Monday's announcement.
They have Sane now so maybe we could persuade them. He likes premiership. ..
Dude you are basically trying to disprove gravity.
In this season alone there have been Haaland, Bellingham and Sancho botched transfer sagas. Before that De Ligt, Koulibaly, Bruno and Maguire were embarrassing sagas. Before that Kroos, Ramos, Thiago, Perisic, Bale.
Dont tell me that there is some mastermind running things there mate.
for a club our size there should be better people in charge
im just after listing all the terrible deals and decisions the club has made since Matt Judge came in. He’s made very little difference if any. We still dither and overpay. We still give out terrible contracts to players nobody else wants. I don’t see how you can think he’s making some huge difference to our approach. In fact them thinking Dortmund still want to sell is just more of it
Do you honestly believe Dortmund's PR team, along with several first-team players, would release those gloating tweets yesterday if they fully intended to sell him?
They'd look like prize tits if he ends up a United player this summer.
Think I've expressed myself a little bit unclearly. Obviously they were open for sale. Probably weren't too fond of it but promised it to the player. However, I think they've actually meant the deadline and don't intend to sell him anymore now that it has expired. I read a little bit in a Dortmund forum now and then and I am friends with some supporters and they all are dead sure that he stays now. They accepted he'll leave this summer, now they're very happy he stays. If you take that away from them after positioning themselves so clearly in the public (and after the side digs Hoeneß made recently, fueling an already existing complex), they'lll be really, really pissed. And it would've been so unnecessary since they wouldn't have to position themselves like they did, with all the player interviews, tweets etc.
Have the feeling Dortmund learned their lesson after Auba and Dembele. They seem to have risen Sancho's salary out of this very reason and although Sancho has a certain reputation of being a difficult character, it doesn't seem he's disappointed at the moment. Maybe he knows that a) a transfer would also mean a certain risk regarding his status in the national team after the rescheduling of the EC and b) that next season, more clubs will be in for him, giving him more options and a better bargaining position for his salary. He can also observe the development at United for another season and see if you indeed become the title contender you're currently looking to turn into.
May be but they'd really have to tell a very, very good story to convince their supporters of this. Sancho probably would have to go into a strike for that and I don't expect that to happen.
JP is right on the money. We are depending on our wing play. Selling Coman was never in contention, and won't be. Our squad is thin enough already. Just yesterday Flick has openly called for a 4th winger, to give you some perspective.
This guy has a point.
I disagree - that statement has put the onus on Sancho and his agent. If he wants out, he’s going to have force it. That allows the hierarchy an out.
I’m not saying he will agitate but ultimately it’s a chess game. Dortmund have made their move so let’s see what happens. We haven’t pulled out (yet) so I think there is encouragement from the players side.
Out of interest, why have you insisted on inserting a 3rd party into negotiations? I would understand it if clubs had poor relations but by all accounts the two clubs get on very well. I find it extremely odd you’ve done that.
The players are simply answering questions they're asked, they don't give a feck. You seem to massively underrate the spin and games that go on.
the only fact so far is that once again Woodward hasn't got a deal done for a player we clearly want and very much need
I believe they're doing that knowing what the market is willing to pay. If someone coughs up what they wanted for him on August 10th they're not going to refuse it on August 20th. That is irrational behaviour.
The rest is just posturing to make people like the chaps you know feel good. Which is fine as many businesses do it.
I think he'll go this or next summer when us or someone else is willing to pay what is needed or Dortmund meet half way. The player anyway wants to move. Can't his stay there lasting longer than one more season either way.
Who knows how he will act - but we haven’t pulled out and I suspect that’s because players camp is still encouraging it. You have to remember he’s English - Utd is a huge draw irrespective of their current position to young lads from England (particularly when he’s got friends at the club).
All I’m saying is you shouldn’t assume anything on the players side because this is a fairly unique situation.
As I said, I wouldn't rule that out. But at least in my memory, Zorc has never leaned himself so far out the window to then eat his words. Sure, he had to do so in the past but not to this extent. Dortmund supporters had accepted Sancho's departure, now they were not only given hope but security that he stays (as a Dortmund fan I'd probably think the same). If you take that away from them again, that'll be a really, really bitter pill to swallow and it would take some serious story telling to move the blame for that away from Zorc and Watzke.
But obviously, I'm just drawing my own conclusions, could very well turn out the way you expect it to.
That’s why they are negotiating. United clearly briefed this isn’t over yet. We’re still playing football, our season isn’t even finished.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you losing faith in this deal yesterday. What's renewed your confidence today?
The players hardly know themselves what’s going on let alone the PR team.
I also don't like these rumours of a first offer around £60m plus addons,really hope there isn't any truth to that
Forgot all about FFP. Dortmund has to be careful if they want to sell him for maximum euros. Revenues will have been down for five quarters by next summer. It may no longer be a question of what will clubs pay, but a question of what can clubs pay.
For clubs that respect FPP, anyway.
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What gives me confidence is united‘s briefings through the British media. In recent transfer windows, whenever a major potential transfer went tits up, we were very eager to let the media know in quick fashion. We haven’t done so, in fact quite the opposite. They’re still negotiating. Doesn’t mean it will 100% get done but it can give us muppets hope.I'm being too negative aren't I?
I'll shut up
Think you're confusing me with someone else mate, I've been relaxed and confident about this deal for many many weeks and have seen no reason to change in that view.
You guys are dissolving my muppet juice like Marty McFly during Johnny B Good.
I think if a deal gets accepted, they will blame it on Sancho. That the player asked to leave and that United met the valuation.
It could very well be that Watzke and Zorc really don't believe that Ed will come up with that sum.
Haven't heard that in a whileSounds like an awful ventriloquist act
Well, we're all assuming thins, that's the fun part in those transfer discussions, isn't it?
Obviously nobody knows what's really going on so we can only talk about what's probable. Drawing my own conclusions from the information out there, I think the most likely scenario is that Dortmund extended the contract last season for a better salary but promised Sancho that they would let him leave for a certain fee if the move is agreed at a certain deadline. So they were open for a sale at their conditions but not really open for negotiations (120m at August 10, take it or leave it). Sort of like a "get-out clause lite". Sancho himself was also open for a move but given the Covid situation didn't push for it since he can also observe things for another year and get a higher contract when the market has recovered.
But as you said, it's all speculation. We'll see how things turn out but as far as Dortmund have leaned themselves out of the window, I've difficulties imagining that this will happen this season.
That depiction isn't actually far off the mark
Dembele situation isn't comparable as the player went missing from training to force the club and even with that, he was sold for 100m+40m adds on. At the end we will have to pay 90-100m at least for Sancho unfortunately.
My dad used call me that all the time.
Come to think of it, he still does
I see what your saying but on the other hand Dortmund openly accepted that he was for sale and then any offers need to come by the 10th August. These were all statements by a club that was resigned to the fact he would be leaving and they wanted the best possible price for him.
If Dortmund mentioned absolutely nothing when the 10th August came, it would look silly and undermining in their negotiation skills.
If the deal was genuinely off and Sancho was staying, Dortmund would simply ask Sancho to go on camera like his teammates have and state that he is staying for at least another season. That would immediately end all speculation and everyone would move on. Utd would also come out and say they are no longer perusing Sancho.
Due to the above not happening, it is clear there is still a possibility of a transfer in this window if Utd agree to a structure Dortmund are happy with.
How far apart are the two clubs in their valuation of the player reportedly ?
Again, Woodward doesn't deal with negotiations anymore, Matt Judge does. Ed is just an easy story for the media that most fans seem to buy.
I think if anyone really believed that “deadline” things would have moved quicker. Players camp clearly don’t believe in it. We shall see what happens.Well, we're all assuming thins, that's the fun part in those transfer discussions, isn't it?
Drawing my own conclusions from the information out there, I think the most likely scenario is that Dortmund extended the contract last season for a better salary but promised Sancho that they would let him leave for a certain fee if the move is agreed at a certain deadline. So they were open for a sale at their conditions but not really open for negotiations (120m at August 10, take it or leave it). Sort of like a "get-out clause lite". Sancho himself was also open for a move but given the Covid situation didn't push for it since he can also observe things for another year and get a higher contract when the market has recovered.
But as you said, it's all speculation. We'll see how things turn out but as far as Dortmund have leaned themselves out of the window, I've difficulties imagining that this will happen this season.
I doubt market will recover in a year even if pandemic is over. It’s not going to be a quick recovery. Anyone, club or player, banking on that is in la la land.
If twitter is to be believed, anywhere from 30-50%.
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