Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[Posh Red]

No it wasn’t. It was that progress has been made.

The BBC said they are virtually done

 

[RedDevil@84]

Some people were having trouble as it had a paywall

Isn't that the point of paywall? I don't know if mods actively look into this nowadays, but I remember @Niall asking us not to post contents from a paywall'd article.

 

[Siorac]

No it wasn’t. It was that progress has been made.

Guardian:

As reported in the Guardian at the start of August, Sancho has agreed personal terms with United and is keen on a move to Old Trafford, with the 20-year-old expected to earn around £250,000 a week. Potential agent fees have now also been agreed but a major stumbling block remains the structure of the deal, with Dortmund still insisting they want €120m (£108m).

Sky Sports:

"I've been speaking to somebody close to a potential deal involving Jadon Sancho to Manchester United and in the past 24 hours there have been developments and potentially good news for Manchester United fans, because the issues of agent fees and personal terms, I've been told, are no longer a problem," Sky Sports News reporter Sheth said.

"It's our understanding now that the agent fees and the personal terms are not going to be a problem anymore."

Daily Mail (ugh):

Manchester United are ready to negotiate a price for Jadon Sancho with Borussia Dortmund after reaching a compromise with the player's camp over the terms of a five-year contract.

Sportsmail understands they are ready to hand Sancho a contract that will run until 2025 with United having the option to extend it by another 12 months.

BBC:

United have broken an impasse by agreeing a deal over wages and agents' fee around any move that could materialise for their main target.

These all say that agent fees and personal terms have been sorted out. Cooper says they haven't.

 

[Dermott Walsh]

Does nobody else think that this is the club releasing the news to appease the fans and paper over the cracks of the lack of transfer activity.

"Look, we're trying and have agreed personal terms with Sancho and his agent. We're making progress , blah blah blah"
When in reality personal terms were never an issue, main obstacle has always been and still is the player's valuation to both clubs.

 

[ChaddyP]

For those who aren't able to access the James Ducker article in Telegraph:

Manchester United given renewed hope of signing Jadon Sancho after breakthrough in negotiations
There are still stumbling blocks – like the £108m fee Borussia Dortmund requested – but the impasse over agents’ fees and wages has ended

Manchester United’s protracted pursuit of Borussia Dortmund and England winger Jadon Sancho has been given a boost after a breakthrough in the impasse over agents’ fees and wages.
Sancho is United manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s top summer transfer target but the fees requested by agents and intermediaries involved in the deal coupled with the player’s wage demands were proving a considerable stumbling block in negotiations.

Yet Sancho’s determination to push through a move before the close of the transfer window on October 5 has helped to break that deadlock and provided renewed hope of a deal.
There are still major hurdles to cross with United yet to agree a fee with Dortmund for Sancho and, so far at least, reluctant to meet the German club’s £108 million valuation of the 20-year-old, who has three years left on his £190,000 a week contract with the Bundesliga side.

It remains to be seen whether there is any negotiation on price but Dortmund insisted last month that Sancho was no longer for sale after an artificial deadline passed without an agreement.
Sources have indicated that they expect Dortmund to be willing to part company with Sancho if the price is right although they have a track record of getting top dollar for their players and negotiations are unlikely to be straightforward.

Nonetheless, the breakthrough over personal terms and intermediary fees is a welcome development for United, who have been determined to learn lessons from the Alexis Sanchez deal.
The Chile striker’s £560,000 a week salary had a destabilising effect on the Old Trafford wage structure while there were also huge payments to his agent and United want to avoid a repeat of that. Sanchez was handed a £9 million payoff last month when he joined Inter Milan on a free transfer.

Solskjaer is determined to further bolster his squad having already signed Holland midfielder Donny van de Beek from Ajax for an initial £34.7 million and believes Sancho would supplement what is already an exciting, vibrant young attack.
However, Solskjaer warned that the Covid crisis had had a significant impact on United’s finances. “We always trying to improve and to see if there’s any way possible that we can improve this squad and bring players in that will have the right level of quality and the right personality and have all the right criteria,” he said. “We all know this summer and this year has been a very strange one and it’s important that everyone understands that this has an effect on football and not everyone can spend millions and millions, and new millions.”

Mason Greenwood has endured a torrid past week after being sent home in disgrace by England for flouting coronavirus protocols when the 18-year-old striker and Manchester City midfielder Phil Foden invited two girls to the team hotel the day after making their senior international debuts against Iceland.

One of those players, Mason Greenwood, has endured a torrid past week after being sent home in disgrace by England for flouting coronavirus protocols. The 18-year-old striker and Manchester City midfielder Phil Foden invited two women to the team hotel the day after making their senior international debuts against Iceland.

Foden underwent a Covid-19 test on Tuesday night and Greenwood was understood to be doing the same on Wednesday, ahead of a proposal return to training with their clubs should they be given the all-clear.
United and City have already condemned the behaviour of their players and Solskjaer is due to speak to Greenwood to remind him of his responsibilities.
But United are keen to protect Greenwood from any further fall-out, even though they expect him to learn some important lessons from the controversy.
Pep Guardiola, the City manager, and Foden are also expected to have talks although the club consider the player’s actions to be out of character and will hope the incident serves to refocus his energies.

I would suggest not posting this. I remember the forum having some issues with this in the past. Just give me a second so I can screen shot it first

 

[Offside]

Guardian:

Sky Sports:

Daily Mail (ugh):

BBC:

These all say that agent fees and personal terms have been sorted out. Cooper says they haven't.

I watched Sky. They said it’s no longer a problem and “one source has gone as far to say it’s nearly agreed”. Cooper is purely repeating this.

 

[nemanja15]

Part of me thinks this'll conveniently get really busy and close over the weekend. We're not playing, obviously, but Ed and co. will still want United mixing in the headlines somehow and drive online engagements/brand exposure.

 

[romufc]

So apparently sky sports saying we could walk away from the deal.

The price has been the same since January. Why spend 8 months on one player only to say hes too expensive?

I hope this is just a media bluff but if its true, Ed needs to go.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Isn't that the point of paywall? I don't know if mods actively look into this nowadays, but I remember @Niall asking us not to post contents from a paywall'd article.

I believe the Telegraph complained about people posting their articles here, so it's specific to the Telegraph.

 

[El-Manos]

Part of me thinks this'll conveniently get really busy and close over the weekend. We're not playing, obviously, but Ed and co. will still want United mixing in the headlines somehow and drive online engagements/brand exposure.

That’s overthinking it. It will be announced once we’ve simply agreed a deal with Dortmund.

 

[Matthew84!]

I see Ole has come out and said not every club can spend millions and millions and he would be happy to work with the current crop of lads he's got,

 

[sewey89]

So apparently sky sports saying we could walk away from the deal.

The price has been the same since January. Why spend 8 months on one player only to say hes too expensive?

I hope this is just a media bluff but if its true, Ed needs to go.

You're right. It's not even as though anything has happened between January and now is it. Been a pretty quiet year actually.

 

[Brownie85]

So apparently sky sports saying we could walk away from the deal.

The price has been the same since January. Why spend 8 months on one player only to say hes too expensive?

I hope this is just a media bluff but if its true, Ed needs to go.

They've been saying this all morning. Apparently we're drawing up a list of alternatives, which is what makes me think its BS.

There is no way we'd say hes our main target and cool interest in everyone else were looking at just to now turn round and say we might walk away?? Also if true, do you not think we'd already have a list of alternatives and be working on them as a potential alternative?


Plus... Maguire and Bruno anyone?

 

[romufc]

You're right. It's not even as though anything has happened between January and now is it. Been a pretty quiet year actually.

Well, then walk away from the deal earlier. Why wait until the season starts to walk away from the deal?

 

[Chief123]

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[Chief123]

They've been saying this all morning. Apparently we're drawing up a list of alternatives, which is what makes me think its BS.

There is no way we'd say hes our main target and cool interest in everyone else were looking at just to now turn round and say we might walk away?? Also if true, do you not think we'd already have a list of alternatives and be working on them as a potential alternative?


Plus... Maguire and Bruno anyone?

To be honest, with James Cooper being Utds mouthpiece I’d imagine Utd want him to brief everyone that we are ready to walk away from it. It’s probably a hopeful attempt at getting Dortmund to reduce the asking price.

 

[romufc]

Plus... Maguire and Bruno anyone?

Yep, the same brief was given then, that bit gives me more hope.

 

[Grande]

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Is he saying that progress could go in the wrong direction as well, or is he just trying to help us underatand what the word progress means in general?

 

[Cee90]

Multiple reasons. 10 years ago Dortmund won two CL titles in a row and reached the CL final in the third. They beat Bayern for Reus' signature and the most promising German talent since Franz Beckenbauer, Mario Götze, said in an interview that he could imagine ending his career in Germany. The team was stacked with world class players in many positions: Besides Reus and Götze, there were Hummels, Lewandowski and Gündogan. Then, shortly before the CL final, it became public that Bayern had signed Götze for a laughable amount. As if that wasn't enough, they lost the final and then Bayern bought Hummels and Lewandowski in the following two seasons and constantly belittled the club publicly. So basically, when they were about to enter the top tier, they were shown their place and ever since were bullied by top clubs that signed their best players, at times with very questionable methods (Mkhitaryan, Dembele, Aubameyang). But they grew organically, improved season by season, always with the objective in mind of becoming one of the best clubs in Europe.

Now they're about to enter the top 10 European clubs regarding revenue. They've beaten one of the biggest clubs in the world for the signature of Haaland and amassed an incredible amount of talent with Sancho, Haaland, Reyna, Bellingham and Moukoko again. Now it looked like they'd lose Sancho in this window and logically Hoeneß had to taunt them with that, claiming that they'd never become a top club this way. Most Dortmund fans had made their peace with Sancho leaving but were annoyed with United's messing around. Then Zorc and Watzke drew a line and a real spirit emerged. Many Dortmund fans think that they are realistically able to hold on to the current bunch of talents for multiple years. It was a sign that they wouldn't allow top clubs bullying them any longer. Sancho has sort of become the personification of all that.

If they sell Sancho now, it'll not be recognized as a necessary thing but it'll be received as if they trolled their fans on purpose. They would have to bring up a very, very good reason for that. If they just accept the fee that was initially communicated +10m or something like that, this won't go down well. It'll be perceived as confirmation of their "minority complex". Especially now that they know that Sancho is contracted until 2023 and they could still sell them 2022. This will receive a shit storm worse than Götze and Hummels got, only that it is now directed towards the front men of their own club. Watzke and Zorc know this very well, so there would've been absolutely no point in ruling out a Sancho move that strictly if they didn't mean it. They could've just said a standard phrase or something like that and Dortmund fans would've been like "yeah, that's negotiation tactics but realistically there's no way he's staying".

Interesting post, thanks.

I am not completely sure why Watzke and Zorc would be so dismissive of the transfer of Sancho to United when it looks like it will happen, but I can understand why some Dortmund fans would be angry if he did leave.

 

[Ikon]

These all say that agent fees and personal terms have been sorted out. Cooper says they haven't.

I tend to believe Fabrizio Romano who has been saying for ages that Sancho wants the transfer and that wages and Agents fees have never been a problem.
The tale of wages and agents fees being a problem makes absolutely no sense, so I've never bought into that story, as for me, it does sound like United spinning the press a different tale.

 

[Giggsy13]

So apparently sky sports saying we could walk away from the deal.

The price has been the same since January. Why spend 8 months on one player only to say hes too expensive?

I hope this is just a media bluff but if its true, Ed needs to go.

All posturing to pressure Sancho’s camp and Dortmund. It will take a few weeks but it will get done.

 

[united_99]

I think you're overstating things a bit. Everyone can see that even if he stays this summer Sancho will probably leave the next. They also know that Haaland or Bellingham won't end their careers in Dortmund either. It is true that the club has become more ambitious with their purchases, but in the end it all boils down to money and Dortmund is still a long way off being able to pay top wages and bar some deluded fans everyone understands what that means, it's less of a inferiority complex than it is just the simple reality.
I also think the importance of Hoeneß' comments is overstated. He likes to inject himself in popular narratives. E.g. boasting about that €2m loan that supposedly saved Dortmund just when they started to hurt Bayern on the pitch half a decade later. This is no different and to think his ramblings, especially now that he has become a relic of the past, are driving €100m+ transfers is naive.
In the end it boils to the fact that both their CEO and DoF made a promise, Selling Sancho now - even for €120m - would break that promise and everyone hates being lied to.

I will neither be shocked if he stays nor if he joins us this season but the promise stuff is overstated in my opinion. Club management say stuff all the time which in the end isn’t true. In the end if they sell him they could claim any of the following:

“We really wanted to keep him but the player pushed too much in the end”

“United weren’t prepared to pay too much money upfront but in the end they made an offer we couldn’t reject”

“We hoped the COVID situation especially in Germany would improve further but the numbers in the last few weeks are worrying and the clubs will continue to make losses for a longer period than originally assumed”

...

Of course Dortmund fans would still be disappointed but their management changing their opinion in the current climate would hardly be a sin which can’t be forgiven.

I believe if they refuse to sell it will be rather because of a lack of time to find a replacement than because of the promise.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Thought you weren't supposed to put the content from Telegraph articles here

Grass.

 

[Okey]

Sancho day is officially the day that never comes! Sigh...

 

[Brownie85]

To be honest, with James Cooper being Utds mouthpiece I’d imagine Utd want him to brief everyone that we are ready to walk away from it. It’s probably a hopeful attempt at getting Dortmund to reduce the asking price.

Yes i agree, but we all know Dortmunds demands, and i'm sure United know they won't budge. My best guess is they're trying to intimidate them into accepting installments/addons which, lets be honest, has been Uniteds plan all along. We all know that with a decent up front fee, Dortmund will accept and we'll sign Sancho

He also says in that video we're a long long way off United walking away, which tells me that we're determined to get our man. Plus any walking away now will result in prices skyrocketing for any alternative, and we'll be seen as majorly panic buying

 

[Squeaky Bumtime]

This one is basically done.

 

[Brownie85]

This one is basically done.

Seems like we're in the final stages going from other transfers... all we need now is for another club to come in for him and United to break and offer what Dortmund want straight away.

Lets be honest, United have kinda screwed themselves here, after the brief last week that the problem was the agents fee/wages and that a fee with Dortmund isn't seen as being a problem for us.

 

[Zehner]

Very interesting, thank you Zehner.

I admit I didn't know the majority of that, and generally thought of Dortmund as "the German team that play good football and find and develop talents", and I was unaware of the taunting going on, that's why I found it surprising that they would feel animosity towards United (it's still not Liverpool level, but I get what you were trying to say).

This explains the posturing, the deadlines and the briefs to the media, but I still find it surprising. One would expect a top club to be run with more maturity, especially as part of the lure to players they sign is that its a stepping stone to bigger things (that includes Halaand, Sancho and Bellingham who we were/are interested in). They go because they get more playing time and less pressure, so it's an ideal environment to develop.

I'm not too clued up on their sources of revenue either. If they are reliant on player sales there's no need to make a scene, all the hard balling could be behind closed doors, and like you said, there's no need to put themselves in a position where they'll lose face if they do. No need to make negotiations a zero sum game.

If they feel they don't have to sell and are looking for exposure and headlines though, it could make sense in the short term.

I also think this has to do with Dortmund not being on best terms with United. It's just an impression but all this insisting on an intermediary, the relatively strict public statements etc.. it seems to me that they're annoyed by United's way of approaching such transfers. Maybe the Mkhitaryan story has also left a lasting impression on them. Then again, I also think the British media are exaggerating a bit. Many incidents (for instance the "you love to see it" tweet) are perceived as affronts towards United but I don't think they were meant this way. Besides that, Zorc was questioned by journalists and the answers were taken out of context. Typical stuff, really.

Another United supporter has demonstrated quite profoundly that Dortmund indeed does rely on player sales as a revenue stream. However, I think that's just a transitional thing and not intended to be the norm. For Dortmund it's important to hold onto their stars for as long as possible. If they manage to keep a team like the current one together for a few years, it'll bring them closer to the ultimate goal of becoming an elite club. It's all cyclical for them and they are probably one or two of those "talent cycles" away from being able to keep the best players for a few years of their respective peaks. Obviously they can't force players to stay because otherwise it will harm they reputation as a talent hub. I believe that's the only reason they were willing to negotiate Sancho's exit in the first place. To me it seems as if they now happily walk away from negotiations because they kept their promise to him.

For what it's worth, Dortmund is getting closer and closer to their goal season by season. Nowadays they already have the 12th highest wage bill and the 12th highest revenue among clubs in Europe. Give them a few years and they're on par with Arsenal, the club that poached Aubameyang from them not too long ago. So it's not completely unreasonable that they could keep this team together for a sustained period of time. Hence the situation surrounding Sancho's transfer has become so delicate. They're "seeing light at the end of the tunnel".

 

[VP89]

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He literally said nothing in this video.

It's astounding how they can advertise it as news when its giving feck all information.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Grass.

I am being the nice guy here

 

[red thru&thru]

He literally said nothing in this video.

It's astounding how they can advertise it as news when its giving feck all information.

Agreed. Some people are saying the deal is off because of this report. Hahahaha

 

[bond19821982]

The alternative is that Dortmund bluffed and you correctly predicted it. I was completely sure that was impossible until yesterday and still lack the imagination that it might happen to be honest. The outrage of Dortmund fans would be similar to you selling Greenwood to Liverpool at this stage.

Talk about exaggeration. If they didn't receive enough outrage for selling one of their top talents just before a CL final, nothing else will. Definitely not like Greenwood to Liverpool. Do you even any idea about our rivalry? Dortmund and United are nothing like that.

They will sell if they get 120m . You can quote me on that.

 

[el3mel]

This seems like an obvious brief from the club, which is a pretty good thing and means we are still in it. Whether it happens or not, it is encouraging to finally see some positive news.

 

[macheda14]

They will sell if they get 120m . You can quote me on that.

No, I won't quote you on that.

 

[sammsky1]

I also think this has to do with Dortmund not being on best terms with United. It's just an impression but all this insisting on an intermediary, the relatively strict public statements etc.. it seems to me that they're annoyed by United's way of approaching such transfers. Maybe the Mkhitaryan story has also left a lasting impression on them. Then again, I also think the British media are exaggerating a bit. Many incidents (for instance the "you love to see it" tweet) are perceived as affronts towards United but I don't think they were meant this way. Besides that, Zorc was questioned by journalists and the answers were taken out of context. Typical stuff, really.

Another United supporter has demonstrated quite profoundly that Dortmund indeed does rely on player sales as a revenue stream. However, I think that's just a transitional thing and not intended to be the norm. For Dortmund it's important to hold onto their stars for as long as possible. If they manage to keep a team like the current one together for a few years, it'll bring them closer to the ultimate goal of becoming an elite club. It's all cyclical for them and they are probably one or two of those "talent cycles" away from being able to keep the best players for a few years of their respective peaks. Obviously they can't force players to stay because otherwise it will harm they reputation as a talent hub. I believe that's the only reason they were willing to negotiate Sancho's exit in the first place. To me it seems as if they now happily walk away from negotiations because they kept their promise to him.

For what it's worth, Dortmund is getting closer and closer to their goal season by season. Nowadays they already have the 12th highest wage bill and the 12th highest revenue among clubs in Europe. Give them a few years and they're on par with Arsenal, the club that poached Aubameyang from them not too long ago. So it's not completely unreasonable that they could keep this team together for a sustained period of time. Hence the situation surrounding Sancho's transfer has become so delicate. They're "seeing light at the end of the tunnel".

Sounds like wishful thinking from an oppp fan

 

[Infra-red]

This one is basically done.

Yep, all done. Just the small matter of agreeing a club record transfer fee that will make Sancho the 4th most expensive player of all time!

 

[Gazza]

Sounds like wishful thinking from an oppp fan

Or a vivid imagination! First paragraph reads like some kind of fantastic stream of consciousness

 

[Squeaky Bumtime]

Yep, all done. Just the small matter of agreeing a club record transfer fee that will make Sancho the 4th most expensive player of all time!

Piece of cake.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Hard for me to believe Donny is the only signing after qualifying to Champions League.

Yesterday's update from Ducker about Sancho's camp wanting this done before October 5th is quite telling.

 

[Zehner]

Sounds like wishful thinking from an oppp fan

Nah, I'm just stating my impressions. I think Dortmund is a very good example what's possible if you have a clear long term vision and execute it properly, but I don't care enough to be emotional about it. If you get Sancho, that's fine by me. It's just an interesting situation. A team featuring Sancho, Reyna, Haaland, Brandt, Moukoko and Bellingham could be genuinely world class a few years down the road. And it's a game theory scenario. If Sancho stays, Haaland is more likely to stay and so forth. But if one leaves.. Their strategy of developing young talents and growing that way is great, IMO, but at some point they have to transition. And I'm curious if they succeed in that at some point in the future (don't believe it'll happen with this crop of players tbh).