Really baffled by the idea of binning off James if we get Sancho, I don't understand any of the logic presented. James is far down the list of people to move on, and a quality squad should have plenty of good options, even if they're a bit similar (which they're not).
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Is that you Woodward?
I never said it should be done that season.
Nearly the whole forum is begging for us to sign Sancho and Grealish & how Grealish can cover LW for Rashford too - never mind in my opinion it being Sancho's best position.
That's 3 players who can cover the left wing spot never mind Martial.
Then we have RW spot. We have Sancho. Daniel James & Greenwood. There to me is the problem.
Long term Daniel James doesn't potentially stick out with much different abilities to players like Sancho, Rashford, Grealish.
However a left footed inverted left footed player does because we only have Greenwood.
Sure its not a rush - but long term I think it completes our attack by giving every potential option in our squad. Ideally a left footed version of grealish would be good - someone who can also play deeper for us.
I thought Sancho is somewhere in between Mbappe and Dembele.
Let's compare their stats and their market value anyway. Let's also add Felix to it for sake of larger perspective.
Mbappe at 19
43 goals
21 assists
Value: 180m
Sancho at 19
29 goals
35 assists
Value: ?
Dembele at 19
20 goas
23 assists
Value: 145m
Felix at 19
18 goals
9 assists
Value: 113m
Now lets be realistic, if we want to sign top talent, we have to pay a lot of money. That's the reality of this market.
If we don't wish to pay that premium money for top young talent,, then we just feck off and stick to James instead. Nothing to be ashamed of. Just the matter of lacking ambition to compete with the very top, we are not the top in Europe anyway.
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I understand your point to be honest. But at the moment there's just no point of letting Dan James go even if we get Sancho. Eventually when we get a left footed inverted winger in our squad there will be competition for places and someone will lose out. By then so much could've changed. It'll be an organic process.
First off no one ever uses aggregate statistics like that, without minutes or performances. Secondly level of competence shown at the highest level matters. Mbappe was smashing the CL and WC.
2 of the 3 transfers you are mentioning have failed as yet to live up to the hype. Some contemplation as to why that might be and a reflection of whether these fees for youngsters are presenting value for money is required.
How the feck did you drag Grealish into this and how did you reach the conclusion the whole forum is begging us to sign him?
You need to make contact with planet earth again, you’re drifting way off orbit.
You need to make contact with this forum.
So what are you basing a valuation of Sancho's performances and potential on? Honest question by the way, him not being able to compete in a world cup yet is not really an argument in my opinion, neither is not being quite as prolific as Mbappé to be honest.
I have, and I see a lot of disagreement over whether he's a good idea or not. Certainly not the "whole forum" is in agreement. And since when does the forum dictate the transfer strategy of the club?
Come to your senses, because you have clearly taken leave of them.
Okay a good portion of the forum want grealish & Sancho which will unfortunately make it harder for James if that is to come to fruition.
Player worth or valuation is by its nature a bit arbitrary. It depends on what clubs are willing to pay and that goes beyond sporting and financial logic at times. And it's the salaries more than the transfer fees that are out of kilter.
I mentioned Herrera being paid 300k pw as PSG. Is that a reflection of his value? Is he 50% more "worthy" than Salah or Kane who are on 200k? Was Sanchez?
I think a club takes into consideration the sporting and fiscal impact of the player as well as see how he fits into the pay structure of the club. Bringing in a player at a salary above your current stars can have knock on effects which you'll have to deal with. Doing that with a teenager from another (lesser) league carries extra risk. The chances of Sancho coming in and outshining all our talented players here on his first season is rather small.
Sancho might be worth £200k pw for United and £500k pw for PSG. But from my perspective, I wouldn't offer him more money than what Rashford, Martial and Pogba are on now. Or more than I'm willing to pay them after the knock-on effect of the transfer. And if that's not enough for him so be it.
And if my nan had balls, she'd be my grandad. What the forum thinks, matters not a jot. The chances of signing Sancho and Grealish are minuscule, it's hardly worth debating what happens then. Never mind making assertions on James based off that.
A lot of the forum are completely ignoring the fact that we have a lot of players in our squad that we might not be able to shift this summer. Chances of offloading Lingard, Mata, Pereira, Alexis and Pogba all in one window are rather small. We also have to consider a replacement for Matic who's contract is running out and a striker to cover for Martial.
Needless to say, signing another Attacking Mid or Left Winger will be way down the least of priorities at the club and it'll be dependent on a helluva lot of hypotheticals actually happening.
Duncan Castles says we're probably his only option in the summer
You can say that again.
Don't get too angry about this man - it's just what a randomer thinks about Daniel James in the future if we get a better, potentially generational player in similar positions.
I just think if we had signed Sancho this season then going for James would be a bit questionable - would rather go for a left footed winger that's all because we have lacked that - a winger who cuts in from the right hand side with his left foot & able to put a shot on the top left hand hand corner of the goal like Robben, Messi, Salah, Bale, Mahrez, Dembele might do.
Anyway I will let you relax and talk to you if Sancho moves & see how Daniel James gets on then.
Fair enough, especially wages are always dependent on the club a player signs for and their wage structure. To be honest I don't really care about wages and therefore don't know a lot about the amounts clubs pay or should pay certain players. I don't peg Sancho as someone that would rule out a transfer because he deems his wages slightly too low, so far he has put sporting matters first. I also agree that it might irk players if a newly signed 19-year old is on higher wages than them right away but Sancho still has a whole career to get wage raises.
I was not necessarily asking for a monetary valuation of the player though and I feel like you gave me your assessment my mentioning that you did not expect him to be your best player right away. That may well be true since every player needs to settle into a new environment first but judging by his performances this season and what I have seen of United I believe he should be one of your best performers (not necessarily better than everyone else mind you) pretty quickly.
Why? I don't get these statements. He certainly has clubs ready to have him.
Certainly not adverse to keeping James as an impact sub or squad player, but his ceiling isn't incredibly high. Hope I am wrong and he is a late bloomer.
Sancho's ceiling is on a different stratosphere though.
Sancho's ceiling is on a different stratosphere though.
Yes, it seems highly improbable. There will be a decent sized queue. We'll need Champions League football and the windfall from Pogba's sale, if we are to be in with a chance.
Coincidentally RN are reporting that he's not showing any signs of wanting to leave in the summer.
Would still be surprised if he stays though.
If he wants to come back to England that narrows his options. Cant go to City in the state theyre in, Liverpool wony buy unleess they unlikely sell while Chelsea seemed to have been made up due to who he supported as a boy.
It makes sense
In my humble opinion, United and United fans rate him higher than most clubs and their fans. When Dembele moved to Barca, he was even higher rated around the world than Sancho at the moment. That could be due to his world cup appearances and comparisons with Mbappe at the time. It works in our favor if we genuinely think he can lead us to trophies.
That's just crazy when you have Neymar and the like coming out calling him a generational talent.
Speak to any Liverpool and Chelsea fan and they will tell you they rate him just as highly.
His numbers are better than the ones Dembele posted.
When Dembélé moved to Barca it was still a year before his first world cup appearance.
They are only 19 for comparison sake and has just kick started their career for around 2 season in comparison, sure you wont expect a lot of difference in terms of minutes of game.
If you insist to go into that level of detail for argument sake, lets do it again then:
Mbappe at 19
Games: 64 (29)
43 goals
21 assists
total output: 64 goals+assist in 64(29) games
Value: 180m
Sancho at 19
Games: 65 (20)
29 goals
35 assists
total output: 64 goals+assist in 65(20) games
Value: ?
Dembele at 19
Games: 55 (17)
20 goas
23 assists
total output: 43 goals+assist in 55(17) games
Value: 145m
Felix at 19
Games: 28 (6)
18 goals
9 assists
total output: 27 goals+assist in 28(6) games
Value: 113m
In terms of total game time and total output at 19, Sancho is very similar/comparable to Mbappe. In fact, can't say which one is better. They are almost identical in terms of stats, just like Messi vs Ronaldo.
In terms of living up to hype, for feck sake they are only still at the age of 20-22, hardly consider to be flop by any sense yet.
So what's your point again?
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You can't deny that an international tournament, especially the world cup takes a player's reputation to another level. If Sancho plays Euros and England reaches the finals, his stock will rise just the same.
Ofcourse but this will be his first international tournament so his stocks could easily rise.
I mean, if you haven’t see it yet you’re not gonna see it whatever so let’s leave it at that.
Yeh, perhaps its best timing for you for back off from this, without making any valid point here.
Alright pal
Very likely. So for now when he's not as highly rated as he can be, it might just be a good thing for United and we should move in before the competition gets fierce.
90m+ seems too low. If that is the case, lot of clubs will be interested for the price you have mentioned & it will be difficult for us to get him.
110m+ - That's how much he is going to cost if he is coming to us.
With Haaland there now, it's possible Dortmund will be competing for the league and going deep into the CL for a couple of years, I can totally see him being more likely to stay. Clubs might take more time to raise the funds as well or wait till the contract runs down.
Some of these transfers are influenced by the PSG money floating around like Dembele and Coutinho and Atletico spent the Griezmann money on a spend big to replace him philosophy.
All depends on the money swashing around, the type of talent and belief in the player and how desperate the bidding club is. Slimani had a top goal record in Portugal mid 20s and went for 28m. Stats don't indicate a price or price bracket.
If Dortmund really want to cash in on their 8 million investment and not see him walk for free in two years and funds are tighter at bidding clubs he's prepared to go to, you may see him go for less than Dembele, Mbappe or Felix. There's so many variables and twists to come it could be 80-150m.
Some of these transfers are influenced by the PSG money floating around like Dembele and Coutinho and Atletico spent the Griezmann money on a spend big to replace him philosophy.
All depends on the money swashing around, the type of talent and belief in the player and how desperate the bidding club is. Slimani had a top goal record in Portugal mid 20s and went for 28m. Stats don't indicate a price or price bracket.
If Dortmund really want to cash in on their 8 million investment and not see him walk for free in two years and funds are tighter at bidding clubs he's prepared to go to, you may see him go for less than Dembele, Mbappe or Felix. There's so many variables and twists to come it could be 80-150m.
Sancho is special and he can provide us something different than what we have, it would be good to have him.
I like what Ole is doing with the squad now. We now have Bruno, and maybe Pogba, if not, we would have replaced him with one of the 2 players linked with (Maddison, Graelish...). But let's suppose Pogba stays, we need players to benefit from the passes.
Those players can potentially be:
Rashford, James
Martial + one back up
Sancho, Greenwood
Different options for different games. This could be phenomenal attack wise.
My only point was that I don't see why only United would be ahead, unless Sancho has shared something to us. But we wouldn't know. Maybe Ole or the club does.
Who did he support as a boy?
We ain't signing no players named Adolf from Argentina. Feck is wrong with you all.
Chelsea, apparently.
Then shouldn't Chelsea be in pole position? Despite them signing Ziyech. Who knows... Sancho likes Rashford so I think United wouldn't be a bad destination. He can see how we are building up Rashford status.
True, given Ole was in for Haaland, I think we want a super star to challenge Martial eventually, but not a proven super star, to have a bit of time.
So I would look into young CF that are clinical right now.
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