Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[AltiUn]

That would be strange because years ago, the 3 biggest talents from that generation were clearly Sancho, Foden, and Gomes. At u14 level I heard Nya Kirby was up there when he was at Spurs, but others passed him shortly after. Then, prior to the Euros (couple of months before the World Cup), Gomes got injured and Hudson Odoi probably put himself in that top 3 spot for their age group over Gomes. I'm not including Sessegnon as he was moved up an age group earlier than all of them.

Someone with a better memory can correct me if I'm wrong, but Hudson Odoi seemed the talent that blossomed later than the others.

That was my thinking too, Foden, Sancho and Gomes were the big three of their generation. Hudson-Odoi was always a great talent but I never considered him up there with the others, his reputation's been inflated a bit lately possibly due to the Bayern bid.

 

[Lash]

That was my thinking too, Foden, Sancho and Gomes were the big three of their generation. Hudson-Odoi was always a great talent but I never considered him up there with the others, his reputation's been inflated a bit lately possibly due to the Bayern bid.

From what I saw of the players at youth level, the ones you mention were clearly technically more talented than CHO was, but physically was miles ahead - not saying he wasn't technically talented, but the goal that usually get's thrown up of CHO, is the one where he runs past everyone from his own half. Personally, Foden blew me away whenever I saw him and would have him has the best talent of the bunch. This does have shades of Renato Sanches about it. Bayern are bidding so he must be the nuts.

 

[Adnan]

That would be strange because years ago, the 3 biggest talents from that generation were clearly Sancho, Foden, and Gomes. At u14 level I heard Nya Kirby was up there when he was at Spurs, but others passed him shortly after. Then, prior to the Euros (couple of months before the World Cup), Gomes got injured and Hudson Odoi probably put himself in that top 3 spot for their age group over Gomes. I'm not including Sessegnon as he was moved up an age group earlier than all of them.

Someone with a better memory can correct me if I'm wrong, but Hudson Odoi seemed the talent that blossomed later than the others.

Who the bigger talent isn't even important at this stage. You just have to look at the SCP academy when Ronaldo was coming through to see most in Portugal considered Quaresma the bigger talent.

What my original point was, would it be beneficial for us to spend around £30-£35m on Hudson Odoi who Bayern seem to think could be a first team player for them, rather than get fleeced by Dortmund for £120m to £140m like some are suggesting on here??

Signing Hudson Odoi could potentially give us the option of signing two midfielders (#6 #8) to come straight into the first team and have enough left over to go big on a CB and possibly a fullback.

Hudson Odoi, Ndombele, Neves, De Ligt/Koulibaly and a fullback..

 

[Adam-Utd]

From what I saw of the players at youth level, the ones you mention were clearly technically more talented than CHO was, but physically was miles ahead - not saying he wasn't technically talented, but the goal that usually get's thrown up of CHO, is the one where he runs past everyone from his own half. Personally, Foden blew me away whenever I saw him and would have him has the best talent of the bunch. This does have shades of Renato Sanches about it. Bayern are bidding so he must be the nuts.

He's clearly more than just a kick and run player though. And Tbh even if he was, many players have made good careers out of doing just that. His pace reminds me of a young Valencia.

 

[Adnan]

Wouldn't the fact we have signed two of their players show us that Chelsea aren't against selling us someone?

It all depends on Hudson Odoi, if we can turn his head, then Chelsea would have little choice but to negotiate with us.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

We won't be signing Dembele so it's pointless getting excited about him.

Sancho is English, playing for a selling club and plays in the exact position we desperately need. I don't really understand how you can't see his talent?

Not many 18 year old's can do what he's done, especially out of his comfort zone.

Then re-read my post, then point to me the part which made you come out with the line “I don’t really understand how you can’t see his talent?”
Especially when there is the line “Sancho does look special” in it.

 

[RedSky]

Who the bigger talent isn't even important at this stage. You just have to look at the SCP academy when Ronaldo was coming through to see most in Portugal considered Quaresma the bigger talent.

What my original point was, would it be beneficial for us to spend around £30-£35m on Hudson Odoi who Bayern seem to think could be a first team player for them, rather than get fleeced by Dortmund for £120m to £140m like some are suggesting on here??

Signing Hudson Odoi could potentially give us the option of signing two midfielders (#6 #8) to come straight into the first team and have enough left over to go big on a CB and possibly a fullback.

Hudson Odoi, Ndombele, Neves, De Ligt/Koulibaly and a fullback..

Personally, i'd go all in on Sancho. His numbers so far are incredible and are pretty similar to Dembele back in 16-17. He's only 18 years old and yet see the below:

Sancho this season from players in Europe's top 5 leagues:

Number of Assists:
Kimmich, Hazard and Messi top on 10
Sancho Ranked join 4th on 9 assists along with (Sane, Eriksen, Sterlin, Fraser)

Mins Per Assist:
Leroy Sane top with 160.7mins
Sancho Ranked 2nd with 160.9mins

Mins Per Key Pass:
Dimitri Payet top with 21.2mins
Sancho Ranked 27th with 34.5mins

Number of Key Passes to provide an Assist:
Leroy Sane top with 3.8 key passes
Sancho Ranked 4th with 4.7 key passes

There are only 19 players aged 22 or younger who have had more than 30 key passes in the league this season (serie a, bundesliga, ligue 1, la liga and premier league). Sancho is the only teenager. The big difference however is that Sancho's other numbers are significantly higher than his counterparts. Only Brandt, Mbappe and Brais Mendez are near to him. He's the most creative young player in Europe right now. He's scored 7 goals which some might argue is pretty low to be offering that amount of money. Yet he's only taken 21 shots on so far, 12 on target and 7 being goals. That's a shot accuracy of 57% and a conversion rate of 33.3%. That's pretty damn good. Rashford conversion rate is 16%, Martials 30.0% as a comparison. He's the real deal.

 

[SilentWitness]

There's no point comparing Hudson-Odoi and Sancho at this current moment because they're at two wildly different stages of development. Sancho is excelling in the starting line-up for a top club challenging for a league title and Hudson-Odoi (through no fault of his own) is struggling to get games for a club that's fighting to get top 4. Until they're both starting regularly again Sancho is clearly ahead in current ability and he is proving that each week with his performances. He's arguably much less of a risk too as he's consistently performing at the highest level and as was shown in the CL game against Spurs, required to be marked out of the game and he's only 18. Ridiculous.

 

[cyberman]

Who the bigger talent isn't even important at this stage. You just have to look at the SCP academy when Ronaldo was coming through to see most in Portugal considered Quaresma the bigger talent.

What my original point was, would it be beneficial for us to spend around £30-£35m on Hudson Odoi who Bayern seem to think could be a first team player for them, rather than get fleeced by Dortmund for £120m to £140m like some are suggesting on here??

Signing Hudson Odoi could potentially give us the option of signing two midfielders (#6 #8) to come straight into the first team and have enough left over to go big on a CB and possibly a fullback.

Hudson Odoi, Ndombele, Neves, De Ligt/Koulibaly and a fullback..

Bayern havn't been making great transfer decisions lately though, I don't understand why this is a factor.
The step up from youth football to first team is huge and Sancho has spectacularly made that leap. We have players like Greenwood / Gomes / Chong / Garner in our set up and if someone told me we should turn Sancho turn for them I would think they were crazy. Just because it's another clubs youth product shouldn't change that.
They turned down 35m for him so how much would it cost for an actual sale in a bidding war with Bayern? With a club who already has his head turned?
That's an incredible risk, a risk that's much less likely with 100m Sancho imo.

 

[Adnan]

Bayern havn't been making great transfer decisions lately though, I don't understand why this is a factor.
The step up from youth football to first team is huge and Sancho has spectacularly made that leap. We have players like Greenwood / Gomes / Chong / Garner in our set up and if someone told me we should turn Sancho turn for them I would think they were crazy. Just because it's another clubs youth product shouldn't change that.
They turned down 35m for him so how much would it cost for an actual sale in a bidding war with Bayern? With a club who already has his head turned?
That's an incredible risk, a risk that's much less likely with 100m Sancho imo.

Chelsea have just received a two window transfer ban which I think they'll appeal succesfully to give them the summer window to stack up on players. The situation with CHO will be resolved quickly because if it isn't, he will leave on a free transfer and that would be stupid on Chelsea's part.

I also doubt Bayern will want to get into a bidding war with us over CHO. I can see Bayern walking away from any potential deal if United turned the players head. I personally think the longer the player is non committal to Chelsea, the more his price will drop. I personally think Chelsea will be lucky to get what Bayern were offering in January.

 

[yo@Kirk]

In the 17/18 season, Dortmund finished 4th in the BL and 29 points behind 1st place Bayern. Sancho had 1 goal and 4 assists in 685' as Dortmund scored 64 goals in 34 BL matches. In the 18/19 season, Dortmund are leading the BL standings with 51 points and 54 goals scored after 22 matches with Bayern in second place with 48 points. Sancho has 7 goals and 11 assists in 1444 minutes so far in the 18/19 season, clearly making a difference.

I've watched many of Dortmund's BL matches this season and Sancho's vision, close control, and passing accuracy are top class. Just what United needs on the right side of Ole's fluid attack. If Manchester United are to compete for EPL and CL trophies, they need to be signing exceptional young talent like Jadon Sancho and Matthijs de Ligt.

 

[AKDevil]

If Hudson Odoi can play on the RW then we should try and sign him with his contract running down. I haven't seen too much of the player but only 12 months ago he was considered a bigger talent than Sancho by many fans. He also played a starring role for England u-17s when they won the world cup and kept Sancho on the bench. Sancho got his chance to shine at Dortmund and will cost a huge amount of money, and some on here are suggesting he could cost a mind boggling £140m.

I would be happy with Sancho, but Hudson Odoi looks as if he will be a similar level of player once he's under a manager who shows faith in the players talent and would cost alot less. We should compete with Bayern for his signature.

He didn't keep Sancho on the bench at the World Cup. Sancho went home after group stages because Dortmund wanted him back. Sancho started all three group games.

 

[Patrick08]

How did he fare vs Tottenham?

 

[Adnan]

He didn't keep Sancho on the bench at the World Cup. Sancho went home after group stages because Dortmund wanted him back. Sancho started all three group games.

Yes, I was made aware if you look further up the page.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

How did he fare vs Tottenham?

Their best player first half, very dangerous and forced a couple of free kicks, the brightest player on the pitch overall.

Second half we shut Dortmund down very successfully and he simply got almost no service so hard to judge him.

 

[Adnan]

How did he fare vs Tottenham?

Good first half but was ineffective in the second IMO.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Good first half but was ineffective in the second IMO.

I think it's harsh to put that on him though. He barely saw any of the ball IIRC because we simply squeezed the life out of his team, it was clearly a tactical thing from us as well to try and limit the amount of time he had on the ball.

 

[Adnan]

I think it's harsh to put that on him though. He barely saw any of the ball IIRC because we simply squeezed the life out of his team, it was clearly a tactical thing from us as well to try and limit the amount of time he had on the ball.

Spurs nullified him and the Dortmund team very well in the second half. But for a teenager he was very good and thought he did well considering all things.

 

[Treble]

Sancho's stats are sensational for a teenager but a bit of context wouldn't harm. Two forwards at Eintracht Frankfurt (7th in the Bundeslihga) have contributed goals/assists at a better rate than Sancho this season. They must be great as Frankfurt aren't Bayern or Dortmund but they produce the goods week in, week out. I guess the caftards haven't heard of them though. Sancho is 3 and 6 years younger than them and this is what makes his stats highly impressive but he is playing for a far better team too.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Spurs nullified him and the Dortmund team very well in the second half. But for a teenager he was very good and thought he did well considering all things.

Tactically, Spurs were excellent in the second half and Dortmund ran out of steam.

Sancho was superb in the 1st half and most of the good play through him. Not shocked he tired in the second as Spurs upped the pressand after the first goal looked like they'd score more

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sancho's stats are sensational for a teenager but a bit of context wouldn't harm. Two forwards at Eintracht Frankfurt (7th in the Bundeslihga) have contributed goals/assists at a better rate than Sancho this season. They must be great as Frankfurt aren't Bayern or Dortmund but they produce the goods week in, week out. I guess the caftards haven't heard of them though. Sancho is 3 and 6 years younger than them and this is what makes his stats highly impressive but he is playing for a far better team too.

Also stats aren't everything which people would do well to remember.

 

[RedSky]

Sancho's stats are sensational for a teenager but a bit of context wouldn't harm. Two forwards at Eintracht Frankfurt (7th in the Bundeslihga) have contributed goals/assists at a better rate than Sancho this season. They must be great as Frankfurt aren't Bayern or Dortmund but they produce the goods week in, week out. I guess the caftards haven't heard of them though. Sancho is 3 and 6 years younger than them and this is what makes his stats highly impressive but he is playing for a far better team too.

Luka Jovic is a very good player and tipped to be moving to Barcelona in the Summer. He's one of the best youth players around. But he plays as a CF, which is why his Key Passes are so low, he's a deadly finisher though. As for Haller, he had a fantastic start to the season (as did Eintracht Frankfurt) but his form is starting to fade. He's also their penalty taker and set piece taker having scored 3 goals this season (in the league) from the spot and 2 from a setpiece. Sancho is neither of those.

 

[Thunderhead]

I think it's harsh to put that on him though. He barely saw any of the ball IIRC because we simply squeezed the life out of his team, it was clearly a tactical thing from us as well to try and limit the amount of time he had on the ball.

yeah it was and Spurs did it well, that's why I believe he needs to stay at Dortmund another season or two, so when he's not getting the ball can become part of the team in a different way and try and influence the game differently.

 

[Treble]

Also stats aren't everything which people would do well to remember.

True.

 

[Treble]

Luka Jovic is a very good player and tipped to be moving to Barcelona in the Summer. He's one of the best youth players around. But he plays as a CF, which is why his Key Passes are so low, he's a deadly finisher though. As for Haller, he had a fantastic start to the season (as did Eintracht Frankfurt) but his form is starting to fade. He's also their penalty taker and set piece taker having scored 3 goals this season (in the league) from the spot and 2 from a setpiece. Sancho is neither of those.

Jovic must be really good as he's on course to 20+ league goals at a midtable club and is still quite young. The Bundesliga is great for the development of top talents now. The competiiton in the PL is brutal and many managers are unwilling to play youngsters.

 

[AKDevil]

Yes, I was made aware if you look further up the page.

All good.

 

[United_We_Stand]

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[Rozay]

Transfer ban them!

 

[the_irish123]

The Bundesliga lost so much quality over the past years that you wonder all these wonderkids they are producing, how many of them are legit.

 

[Brightonian]

There's no point comparing Hudson-Odoi and Sancho at this current moment because they're at two wildly different stages of development. Sancho is excelling in the starting line-up for a top club challenging for a league title and Hudson-Odoi (through no fault of his own) is struggling to get games for a club that's fighting to get top 4. Until they're both starting regularly again Sancho is clearly ahead in current ability and he is proving that each week with his performances. He's arguably much less of a risk too as he's consistently performing at the highest level and as was shown in the CL game against Spurs, required to be marked out of the game and he's only 18. Ridiculous.

This was really telling for me. When you have to man-mark an 18-year-old out of a heavyweight CL tie - a player who's been at the club for less than two seasons - you're getting into Ronaldo territory.

 

[In Rainbows]

Personally, i'd go all in on Sancho. His numbers so far are incredible and are pretty similar to Dembele back in 16-17. He's only 18 years old and yet see the below:

Sancho this season from players in Europe's top 5 leagues:

Number of Assists:
Kimmich, Hazard and Messi top on 10
Sancho Ranked join 4th on 9 assists along with (Sane, Eriksen, Sterlin, Fraser)

Mins Per Assist:
Leroy Sane top with 160.7mins
Sancho Ranked 2nd with 160.9mins

Mins Per Key Pass:
Dimitri Payet top with 21.2mins
Sancho Ranked 27th with 34.5mins

Number of Key Passes to provide an Assist:
Leroy Sane top with 3.8 key passes
Sancho Ranked 4th with 4.7 key passes

There are only 19 players aged 22 or younger who have had more than 30 key passes in the league this season (serie a, bundesliga, ligue 1, la liga and premier league). Sancho is the only teenager. The big difference however is that Sancho's other numbers are significantly higher than his counterparts. Only Brandt, Mbappe and Brais Mendez are near to him. He's the most creative young player in Europe right now. He's scored 7 goals which some might argue is pretty low to be offering that amount of money. Yet he's only taken 21 shots on so far, 12 on target and 7 being goals. That's a shot accuracy of 57% and a conversion rate of 33.3%. That's pretty damn good. Rashford conversion rate is 16%, Martials 30.0% as a comparison. He's the real deal.

More apt comparison

Number of Goals:
Dembele: 10
Sancho: 8 & counting

Number of Assists:
Dembele age 19 w/ Dortmund: 21 assists
Sancho age 18 w/ Dortmund: 13 assists & counting

Mins Per Assist:
Dembele with 158 mins
Sancho with 160.9mins

Minutes avg per game:*
Dembele: 63.8
Sancho: 65.8

Key passes per game:*
Dembele: 2
Sancho: 1.9

Dribbles per game:*
Dembele: 3.2
Sancho: 3.2

Disp. per game:*
Dembele: 1.3
Sancho: 1.7

Fouled per game:*
Dembele: 1.9
Sancho: 1

*restricted to Bundesliga


So with this, we can see that Dembele was a slightly better dribbler in the Bundesliga and creator. However, it's very close and Sancho is doing it a year younger.

 

[In Rainbows]

Luka Jovic is a very good player and tipped to be moving to Barcelona in the Summer. He's one of the best youth players around. But he plays as a CF, which is why his Key Passes are so low, he's a deadly finisher though. As for Haller, he had a fantastic start to the season (as did Eintracht Frankfurt) but his form is starting to fade. He's also their penalty taker and set piece taker having scored 3 goals this season (in the league) from the spot and 2 from a setpiece. Sancho is neither of those.

Yep. He looks like a complete striker much in the way I hope Greenwood becomes.

 

[RedSky]



More apt comparison

Number of Goals:
Dembele: 10
Sancho: 8 & counting

Number of Assists:
Dembele age 19 w/ Dortmund: 21 assists
Sancho age 18 w/ Dortmund: 13 assists & counting

Mins Per Assist:
Dembele with 158 mins
Sancho with 160.9mins

Minutes avg per game:*
Dembele: 63.8
Sancho: 65.8

Key passes per game:*
Dembele: 2
Sancho: 1.9

Dribbles per game:*
Dembele: 3.2
Sancho: 3.2

Disp. per game:*
Dembele: 1.3
Sancho: 1.7

Fouled per game:*
Dembele: 1.9
Sancho: 1

*restricted to Bundesliga


So with this, we can see that Dembele was a slightly better dribbler in the Bundesliga and creator. However, it's very close and Sancho is doing it a year younger.

Funny I did the same thing earlier, Sancho has taken far less shots than Dembele did. With a much higher shot accuracy too, I also came to the same conclusion that although Sanchos output is slightly better he also gives the ball away more than Dembele did back then. Other than that it's pretty close.

 

[Fracture90]

Let's get to more important issues, how's his ball striking? Also with him in the side we're going to need to need to beef up the playmaking in midfield areas as he's not going to help out with that. Can't believe the amount of wide talent faffing about in Germany in recent years with Bayern doing nothing about it.

Iirc some Dortmund official recently came out saying they won't allow themselves to lose anymore players to Bayern.

Besides Bayern got Gnabri, Goretzka, Sule, Rudy, Pavard etc, all from Bundesliga.

We would have as much of a chance signing Hudson- Odoi from Chelsea as we had a chance of signing Sancho from City.

I wouldn't be so sure, with this transfer ban I reckon they'll be willing to sell some players that don't want to be there in order to buy some that want to be there. Now it depends on the player, he seems to be set on that Bayern move.

 

[DoubleDinhos]

Honestly can't put into words how disgusted I am hearing about City cheating the system with those payments to Sancho's agent, when he was 14!

20 point deduction is the only fair course of action, one point for every £10,000 that they illegally cheated with.

 

[ROFLUTION]

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A ban would be nice

 

[sideshow_bob]

Iirc some Dortmund official recently came out saying they won't allow themselves to lose anymore players to Bayern.

Zorc has also come out to say that Sancho will remain with BVB next season no matter who or what is offered.

 

[Fracture90]

Zorc has also come out to say that Sancho will remain with BVB next season no matter who or what is offered.

Like hell he would. Ill offer them some homemade ajvar, prune and apple jam, fresh kajmak, smoked ham, bacon and pršuta + my 60 y old aunt in a Yugo 45 and watch Zorc driving Sancho to the Carrington himself, begging us to take them both!

 

[deadrevelz]

Honestly can't put into words how disgusted I am hearing about City cheating the system with those payments to Sancho's agent, when he was 14!

20 point deduction is the only fair course of action, one point for every £10,000 that they illegally cheated with.

Next season though. Unless they are planning on doing the same to Liverpool.

 

[2 man midfield]

Honestly can't put into words how disgusted I am hearing about City cheating the system with those payments to Sancho's agent, when he was 14!

20 point deduction is the only fair course of action, one point for every £10,000 that they illegally cheated with.

Applied to last seasons campaign