Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

Status
Not open for further replies.

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,182
Location
Flagg
What is better? An amazing offer right now or waiting another year in the hope of an even better offer? What if he loses form or gets injured next season. That's a big risk for him. Even if he wants to wait for a bigger club, there's no guarantee he'll be a starter there. At United, there's zero competition at his position.
If the Spurs game was one where he supposedly showed his ability I'm fairly sure we should steer clear.
 

DSG

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
2,303
Location
A Whale’s Vagina
Pulisic fits the profile, he just doesn't execute it well. It's hard for him to have had "some" great performances given that he barely plays anymore. The last league game where he directly contributed to a goal as a starter was in September. In the CL he didn't do so at all and they didn't sell him because of Favre, they sold him because his contract forced them.

Bürki has been one of their most consistent performers this season.
Wolf is playing at RB because both Hakimi and Piszczek have been injured.
Weigl is playing at CB, because Diallo is needed at LB (a position which will be adressed next summer according to media), because he's earned it with performances and because Zagadou is out of favour for the moment, after choking against Bayern.

Meanwhile the squad is actually in desperate need of a LM (Hazard), because the only other serious contender for that position is Guerreiro, who is actually more of an CM than a winger (which tends to cause positional problems) and who really enjoys picking up muscle injuries. With Dahoud not being an option Götze has to share the striker position with Paco, he has to be Reus' backup and he's the one who is designated to replace Delaney in CM, when the team needs more creativity from deep. It's only logical that the club buys another attack minded player for the center, be it Brandt or someone else.

Nothing of what you say has any connection to a possible Sancho transfer and large parts of it are just plain wrong.
So, conclusions from today’s match.

Burki is suspect. Exhibit A, slow undeflected nutmeg on a shot outside the box, letting in a goal.

Pulisic is the best player on the field with a goal and setting up the Alcacer free kick. He absolutely abused Friedl. After that performance, I can honestly say that Favre didn’t rate Pulisic. Of course, Favre doesn’t want to play the high press, so maybe that’s it because Pulisic is absolutely made for the high press.

Guerreiro may want to play CM, but he never will because he is completely one-footed. Anyone playing him there is either desperate or stupid because he cannot switch field with a right footed pass. His future is as a LB or winger.

Akanji made an awful mistake for the second goal, and Weigl played the Bremen forward onside which almost resulted in a goal. He’s frequently in no man’s land getting passed around.

Anyway you look at it, Dortmund need to make major moves to solidify defense and GK if they want to challenge for the title. I don’t think the 65m fee for Pulisic is going to be enough to do that. That was a must win against a mediocre team and the entire defense just shit the bed.

Back to Sancho, he didn’t really do much the first 60min, started to come alive later on.
 

Keeps It tidy

Hates Messi
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
17,638
Location
New York
So, conclusions from today’s match.

Burki is suspect. Exhibit A, slow undeflected nutmeg on a shot outside the box, letting in a goal.

Pulisic is the best player on the field with a goal and setting up the Alcacer free kick. He absolutely abused Friedl. After that performance, I can honestly say that Favre didn’t rate Pulisic. Of course, Favre doesn’t want to play the high press, so maybe that’s it because Pulisic is absolutely made for the high press.

Guerreiro may want to play CM, but he never will because he is completely one-footed. Anyone playing him there is either desperate or stupid because he cannot switch field with a right footed pass. His future is as a LB or winger.

Akanji made an awful mistake for the second goal, and Weigl played the Bremen forward onside which almost resulted in a goal. He’s frequently in no man’s land getting passed around.

Anyway you look at it, Dortmund need to make major moves to solidify defense and GK if they want to challenge for the title. I don’t think the 65m fee for Pulisic is going to be enough to do that. That was a must win against a mediocre team and the entire defense just shit the bed.

Back to Sancho, he didn’t really do much the first 60min, started to come alive later on.
They only really need a LB. Akanji made an awful mistake against Bremen but, he was playing RB a position I am not sure he has ever played before. Him and Diallo can potentially have a great CB partnership and they will have Zagadou as Diallo's backup and Balerdi as Akanji's backup. Unless they have another injury crisis they will not need to play Weigl at CB. And Burki has had some high profile mistakes but, they are going to struggle to find a better GK in the transfer market.
 

DSG

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
2,303
Location
A Whale’s Vagina
They only really need a LB. Akanji made an awful mistake against Bremen but, he was playing RB a position I am not sure he has ever played before. Him and Diallo can potentially have a great CB partnership and they will have Zagadou as Diallo's backup and Balerdi as Akanji's backup. Unless they have another injury crisis they will not need to play Weigl at CB. And Burki has had some high profile mistakes but, they are going to struggle to find a better GK in the transfer market.
I guess we see things differently. I like Akanji, and Diallo, Zagadou as well. My opinion is that Guerreiro could be great as a LB... but he shouldn’t be moving central.

The data does not confirm the premise that Burki is a great goalkeeper.

They have a right mess on their hands with all of the tinkering the Favre has done with the squad. Bruun-Larsen is the sub that you bring on to score the winner? Ridiculous.

Weigl was brilliant in the Tuchel years as a deep lying playmaker, why has he been shuttled to the bench? Or filling in at CB???

Honestly, if Dortmund wants to seriously challenge they have work to do. Tons of talent in the squad, but very poor management of the talent.

Makes me think that Sancho should move. Because he won’t be winning trophies under this regime...
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,289
Watching the game as well, ya know, I don’t think he’s been great. 100m seems an awful lot for him based on this game so far.
That's what you'd say about Messi if you watched him against, say, Iceland.

Point being, the cumulative of his professional games supposedly suggest that he's worth that. I have no idea personally, because I've only ever watched his YouTube reel and don't consider that to be worth much at all .
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,554
He is... electrifying. Seems like a hardworker also. Anything below 100m is a steal, imho.
 

Kaglish10

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
976
I guess we see things differently. I like Akanji, and Diallo, Zagadou as well. My opinion is that Guerreiro could be great as a LB... but he shouldn’t be moving central.

The data does not confirm the premise that Burki is a great goalkeeper.

They have a right mess on their hands with all of the tinkering the Favre has done with the squad. Bruun-Larsen is the sub that you bring on to score the winner? Ridiculous.

Weigl was brilliant in the Tuchel years as a deep lying playmaker, why has he been shuttled to the bench? Or filling in at CB???

Honestly, if Dortmund wants to seriously challenge they have work to do. Tons of talent in the squad, but very poor management of the talent.

Makes me think that Sancho should move. Because he won’t be winning trophies under this regime...
True that Guerrero shouldn't be deployed in the midfield. I didn't like him there despite the early rave. He's better on the flank either as a full back or winger however his defensive prowess as a full back is awful.

As for Weigl, injury happened to him and when he returned, he had problem getting back to his previous form and the Belgium guy, Witsel had to be brought in to replace him in his position and he's been quality for Dortmund this season. There was no way both could play together because they have the same skillset and are not mobile. Witsel is more visionary than Weigl though.

I actually think they need a creative midfielder through the middle to supply both the wings and striker because the burden on Witsel through the middle is too much. I really don't know why Kagawa was let go because he was their best player under Bosz and also looked fantastic for Japan at the world cup (his performance against Belgium was one of the best in the world cup, a shame Japan lost the match). It's probably due to Gotze having too much power in the club because it was only going to be between Gotze and Kagawa and favre chose Gotze (very ridiculous decision if you would ask me). Anyway, I think they have realised their mistake hence the reason they want Brandt. Reus should be moved back to the left forward role. And with Reus and Paco' injuries, Hazard is an option to have. (Reus can be deployed as a central forward role whenever Paco is out).

They also need a central back who's aerially adept. Zagadou is their only defender who looks good in the air. They actually fell apart against Spurs aerial game as soon as he left the pitch. However, he was awful against Bayern. It seems he's been injured or maybe Favre has been leaving him out since then but the news say he has a knee injury.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
So, conclusions from today’s match.

Burki is suspect. Exhibit A, slow undeflected nutmeg on a shot outside the box, letting in a goal.

Pulisic is the best player on the field with a goal and setting up the Alcacer free kick. He absolutely abused Friedl. After that performance, I can honestly say that Favre didn’t rate Pulisic. Of course, Favre doesn’t want to play the high press, so maybe that’s it because Pulisic is absolutely made for the high press.

Guerreiro may want to play CM, but he never will because he is completely one-footed. Anyone playing him there is either desperate or stupid because he cannot switch field with a right footed pass. His future is as a LB or winger.

Akanji made an awful mistake for the second goal, and Weigl played the Bremen forward onside which almost resulted in a goal. He’s frequently in no man’s land getting passed around.

Anyway you look at it, Dortmund need to make major moves to solidify defense and GK if they want to challenge for the title. I don’t think the 65m fee for Pulisic is going to be enough to do that. That was a must win against a mediocre team and the entire defense just shit the bed.

Back to Sancho, he didn’t really do much the first 60min, started to come alive later on.
So you watched one game and want to base an entire season around it?
Pulisic played well, so all the games where he was selfish and ineffective didn't happen?
Bürki made a mistake, so he must be shit?
Guerreiro isn't allowed to play in CM, because only two-footed CMs exists and the three coaches who played him there were desperate or stupid?
Akanji made a mistake when helping out at RB so he must be shit?
Weigl, who is only a temp at CB anyway, failed an offside trap, so he is shit and Sancho must be sold?

Great analysis.

Yesterday's back four was Akani, Weigl, Diallo, Guerreiro.
Next year's will be Hakimi(Piszczek), Akanji, Diallo(Zagadou), LB signing (supposedly Schulz). Diallo being the only player who will keep his spot - maybe.


p.s.
Weigl had one great year under Tuchel. In his second he came down to earth. Under Bosz he was a liability and in the clusterfeck that was Stöger's midfield he couldn't impose himself either.
So the club brought in Witsel for some much needed stability and leadership from their midfield anchor. Witsel immediately became indispensable, Weigl didn't step up, so Witsel took all the minutes.
Come winter Dortmund had an injury crisis in defence, so Weigl had to help out at CB, he did well there so he got some minutes. When the personell situation got a bit less tense Zagadou choked massively against Bayern, so Favre gave his spot to Weigl for the time being. No big mystery.
 
Last edited:

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,437
do.ob again covered most of what I would have answered (although he worded it a bit harder), so only an addition:
After that performance, I can honestly say that Favre didn’t rate Pulisic. Of course, Favre doesn’t want to play the high press, so maybe that’s it because Pulisic is absolutely made for the high press.
That's not correct, Dortmund has played phases of high pressing all season. It has only been one of several different approaches against the ball, but it has been a regular feature.
 

Moiraine

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
2,981
Location
Oslo
Who has been declared Bundesliga player of the season this year ?

Is it Sancho ?
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
True that Guerrero shouldn't be deployed in the midfield. I didn't like him there despite the early rave. He's better on the flank either as a full back or winger however his defensive prowess as a full back is awful.

As for Weigl, injury happened to him and when he returned, he had problem getting back to his previous form and the Belgium guy, Witsel had to be brought in to replace him in his position and he's been quality for Dortmund this season. There was no way both could play together because they have the same skillset and are not mobile. Witsel is more visionary than Weigl though.

I actually think they need a creative midfielder through the middle to supply both the wings and striker because the burden on Witsel through the middle is too much. I really don't know why Kagawa was let go because he was their best player under Bosz and also looked fantastic for Japan at the world cup (his performance against Belgium was one of the best in the world cup, a shame Japan lost the match). It's probably due to Gotze having too much power in the club because it was only going to be between Gotze and Kagawa and favre chose Gotze (very ridiculous decision if you would ask me). Anyway, I think they have realised their mistake hence the reason they want Brandt. Reus should be moved back to the left forward role. And with Reus and Paco' injuries, Hazard is an option to have. (Reus can be deployed as a central forward role whenever Paco is out).

They also need a central back who's aerially adept. Zagadou is their only defender who looks good in the air. They actually fell apart against Spurs aerial game as soon as he left the pitch. However, he was awful against Bayern. It seems he's been injured or maybe Favre has been leaving him out since then but the news say he has a knee injury.
The thing about Guerreiro is that doesn't make a huge difference, whether you put him down as a CM or LM on the formation sheet, he always drifts into the half spaces. When there is some space to exploit there, or when he pulls of a bit of individual magic that works out fine, but against ultra defensive opposition (which is the majority in Bundesliga for Dortmund) the teams need both wingers to be capable of staying wide, stretching play and taking on players 1v1/2.
But since that's not his style he gets nullified in the center, the left wing then ends up dead, because Dortmund don't have an attacking LB who can take over winger duties and it's easy for teams to keep up their defensive shape with the position of the ball.

Götze doesn't owe his spot to politics. The first two months actually went pretty horribly for him. He forced his way into the team via performances by being a good replacement for Alcacer and then got more and more important to the team as the season progressed. A possible Brandt signing isn't about replacing him, it's more about having an extra creative midfielder, because at the moment Götze has to be the creative #8, the Reus substitute and the Alcacer substitute and one player simply isn't enough to cover three positions.

The defensive problem isn't necessarily aerial presence, but the tactical organization of set pieces (e.g. man vs zonal marking). It appears to be a hot topic within the team, with Bürki even venting about it in an interview after conceding a corner vs Schalke.

Who has been declared Bundesliga player of the season this year ?

Is it Sancho ?
I don't think they are out yet and they carry little weight anyway.
 

Kaglish10

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
976
The thing about Guerreiro is that doesn't make a huge difference, whether you put him down as a CM or LM on the formation sheet, he always drifts into the half spaces. When there is some space to exploit there, or when he pulls of a bit of individual magic that works out fine, but against ultra defensive opposition (which is the majority in Bundesliga for Dortmund) the teams need both wingers to be capable of staying wide, stretching play and taking on players 1v1/2.
But since that's not his style he gets nullified in the center, the left wing then ends up dead, because Dortmund don't have an attacking LB who can take over winger duties and it's easy for teams to keep up their defensive shape with the position of the ball.

Götze doesn't owe his spot to politics. The first two months actually went pretty horribly for him. He forced his way into the team via performances by being a good replacement for Alcacer and then got more and more important to the team as the season progressed. A possible Brandt signing isn't about replacing him, it's more about having an extra creative midfielder, because at the moment Götze has to be the creative #8, the Reus substitute and the Alcacer substitute and one player simply isn't enough to cover three positions.

The defensive problem isn't necessarily aerial presence, but the tactical organization of set pieces (e.g. man vs zonal marking). It appears to be a hot topic within the team, with Bürki even venting about it in an interview after conceding a corner vs Schalke.



I don't think they are out yet and they carry little weight anyway.
It was going to be between Kagawa and Gotze, however we all know Gotze is quite popular with the board hence he was chosen over kagawa. I haven't seen any improvement from him so far. He's still cumbersome with the odd goal here and there. Also, he hardly played as a no 8 under favre. He was either deployed as a no 10 or a false 9 striker. Brandt is not a no 8 though. He's similar to Kagawa whenever he was deployed in the central midfield under Bosz and Tuchel. They help to provide options in midfield and start a quick attack from there but that doesn't mean they should be deployed in a 2-man midfield or deployed alongside a no 10.

As for Dortmund's central defenders, they are really awful in the air and Bayern exposed them with their use of long ball from Thiago, Alaba and Coman. Same happened against Spurs. Akanji is a bit decent in the air but still not good. The likes of Diallo are just not good in the air.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,567
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
It was going to be between Kagawa and Gotze, however we all know Gotze is quite popular with the board hence he was chosen over kagawa. I haven't seen any improvement from him so far. He's still cumbersome with the odd goal here and there. Also, he hardly played as a no 8 under favre. He was either deployed as a no 10 or a false 9 striker. Brandt is not a no 8 though. He's similar to Kagawa whenever he was deployed in the central midfield under Bosz and Tuchel. They help to provide options in midfield and start a quick attack from there but that doesn't mean they should be deployed in a 2-man midfield or deployed alongside a no 10.

As for Dortmund's central defenders, they are really awful in the air and Bayern exposed them with their use of long ball from Thiago, Alaba and Coman. Same happened against Spurs. Akanji is a bit decent in the air but still not good. The likes of Diallo are just not good in the air.
I don't really see anything to support the notion of the board influencing Favre's personell choice. Favre apparently only saw room for one of them in his plans. Götze came out ahead after the pre season, which seems logical given that Kagawa was at the world cup and he wasn't. Favre didn't seem to be too convinced so soon it was Kagawa's turn to get minutes and Götze was left out of the squad. Neither of them impressing thus far. Then Kagawa picked up an injury and Götze delivered a very good cameo performance against Augsburg and the spot was his's again. He then established himself as the first choice replacement for Alcacer with a good match against Madrid and that was that for Kagawa.
Since the winter break Götze has directly contributed to a goal in 8 out of 12 matches he's started, in a team that's been more or less struggling he's a reliable performer.
It's true that Götze only started against Stuttgart in a role next to/behind Reus, but if you look a bit closer you'll see that when Dortmund need a goal it's not uncommon for Favre to take off Delaney for an attacker and let Götze take his place.

I don't see Brandt as a classic #8 either, but (assuming the rumours are true) where else is he supposed to play? I don't see him joining Dortmund as a winger, much less so in addition to Hazard, #8/10 is where he found the form of his life, I reckon the plan (if there is one) is to use him as a substitute for injury prone Reus and next to him against most Bundesliga teams.

Maybe Diallo and Akanji are weak in the air, maybe they aren't I find that hard to judge. What's plain to see though is that a lot of the headers conceded came from players who were allowed too much space.
 
Last edited:

Kaglish10

Full Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
976
I don't really see anything to support the notion of the board influencing Favre's personell choice. Favre apparently only saw room for one of them in his plans. Götze came out ahead after the pre season, which seems logical given that Kagawa was at the world cup and he wasn't. Favre didn't seem to be too convinced so soon it was Kagawa's turn to get minutes and Götze was left out of the squad. Neither of them impressing thus far. Then Kagawa picked up an injury and Götze delivered a very good cameo performance against Augsburg and the spot was his's again. He then established himself as the first choice replacement for Alcacer with a good match against Madrid and that was that for Kagawa.
Since the winter break Götze has directly contributed to a goal in 8 out of 12 matches he's started, in a team that's been more or less struggling he's a reliable performer.
It's true that Götze only started against Stuttgart in a role next to/behind Reus, but if you look a bit closer you'll see that when Dortmund need a goal it's not uncommon for Favre to take off Delaney for an attacker and let Götze take his place.

I don't see Brandt as a classic #8 either, but (assuming the rumours are true) where else is he supposed to play? I don't see him joining Dortmund as a winger, much less so in addition to Hazard, #8/10 is where he found the form of his life, I reckon the plan (if there is one) is to use him as a substitute for injury prone Reus and next to him against most Bundesliga teams.

Maybe Diallo and Akanji are weak in the air, maybe they aren't I find that hard to judge. What's plain to see though is that a lot of the headers conceded came from players who were allowed too much space.
Fair enough. I just feel Gotze is more of a support striker than a creator these days whereas Kagawa looks much more creative and better in the midfield compared to Gotze who loves to play closer to the goal like a SS while looking to pounce on any loose pass or throughballs when he should be the one creating them. A shame Favre wasn't watching the world cup because if he had done that, he would have realised Kagawa was one of the best midfielders at the world cup. I really don't know why he didn't see Kagawa against Belgium if he actually scouted Witsel because the two players looked head and shoulders above the rest in that game whereas Hazard looked clueless. Besides, I think Dahoud has always been the sub player for Delaney.

I think Dortmund's aerial game improved a bit with Zagadou in defence but after his awful performance against Bayern, he was left hung to dry or maybe he's really been injured. Whichever way, Dortmund need to sort that out and maybe get a new central back who's aerially adept.
 

DSG

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
2,303
Location
A Whale’s Vagina
So you watched one game and want to base an entire season around it?
Pulisic played well, so all the games where he was selfish and ineffective didn't happen?
Bürki made a mistake, so he must be shit?
Guerreiro isn't allowed to play in CM, because only two-footed CMs exists and the three coaches who played him there were desperate or stupid?
Akanji made a mistake when helping out at RB so he must be shit?
Weigl, who is only a temp at CB anyway, failed an offside trap, so he is shit and Sancho must be sold?

Great analysis.

Yesterday's back four was Akani, Weigl, Diallo, Guerreiro.
Next year's will be Hakimi(Piszczek), Akanji, Diallo(Zagadou), LB signing (supposedly Schulz). Diallo being the only player who will keep his spot - maybe.


p.s.
Weigl had one great year under Tuchel. In his second he came down to earth. Under Bosz he was a liability and in the clusterfeck that was Stöger's midfield he couldn't impose himself either.
So the club brought in Witsel for some much needed stability and leadership from their midfield anchor. Witsel immediately became indispensable, Weigl didn't step up, so Witsel took all the minutes.
Come winter Dortmund had an injury crisis in defence, so Weigl had to help out at CB, he did well there so he got some minutes. When the personell situation got a bit less tense Zagadou choked massively against Bayern, so Favre gave his spot to Weigl for the time being. No big mystery.
Nope. I’ve watched 25 matches at least.

Pulisic has not been good in every match. I’ve said that he has been inconsistent. Still, with his talent and Favre’s underwhelming choices (besides Pulisic) for LM, it is easy to draw the conclusion that Favre doesn’t rate Pulisic. You put the blame on Pulisic’s form, I put the blame on Favre for not showing a bit more patience given the kid’s track record.

Your analysis:

Burki is great! Definite Bundesliga-winning GK!
Guerreiro can be a great CM (as long as he is passing to the left!)
The defense is solid! Good enough to win the Bundesliga!

Yeah, I stand by my statement that Guerreiro should not play CM. Yes, the other managers were stupid to play him there. And, given the number of boneheaded errors that I have seen Burki make over the last 3 years, they do need an upgrade there. Just because he’s had 3 good months doesn’t make me forget all the costly errors he’s made in the past and the error he made today is a classic example.

Oh, and by the way, the error by Akanji wasn’t because he was playing RB. CB’s need to make that play 2-3 times a game. That’s what makes it more unbelievable.

Look, this is a Manchester United board. We are waaaayyyy off topic. You probably don’t want Sancho to leave Dortmund this season and he may not. But neither one of us knows the situation there, and the team’s performance, while on the surface looks impressive (especially the early run of form) actually raises a lot of question marks.
 

Frank Grimes

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
8,608
Location
Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
Can we really afford to spend half our transfer budget on one position? I think this is a pipe dream and we may concentrate on getting more positions covered with our budget. Hopefully we can nab Sancho another time when we have a half decent team to supplement his talents.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
I'd say a signing like Sancho is the most important bit of business we can do this summer, the club needs a lift, the fans need a lift, and in the close season the only thing that can do that is an exciting signing

Yes we need a CB and a RB DESPERATELY but I think most fans now would take a season of 3-2's and 4-3's just to get the fun factor back

Hopefully the club of course do what's necessary in every position though
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,029
I'd say a signing like Sancho is the most important bit of business we can do this summer, the club needs a lift, the fans need a lift, and in the close season the only thing that can do that is an exciting signing

Yes we need a CB and a RB DESPERATELY but I think most fans now would take a season of 3-2's and 4-3's just to get the fun factor back

Hopefully the club of course do what's necessary in every position though
We also desperately need a CDM
 

pocco

loco
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
22,095
Location
Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
I'd say a signing like Sancho is the most important bit of business we can do this summer, the club needs a lift, the fans need a lift, and in the close season the only thing that can do that is an exciting signing

Yes we need a CB and a RB DESPERATELY but I think most fans now would take a season of 3-2's and 4-3's just to get the fun factor back

Hopefully the club of course do what's necessary in every position though
Yeah i said this myself at one point. Sancho would lift the everyone involved because he's the type of attacking player that the fans have an affinity for here. He's got that bit of genius and unpredictability about him. The RW spot absolutely has to be sorted asap.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
42,729
Can we really afford to spend half our transfer budget on one position? I think this is a pipe dream and we may concentrate on getting more positions covered with our budget. Hopefully we can nab Sancho another time when we have a half decent team to supplement his talents.
There won't be another time... he'll keep improving and then the lkes of Madrid, Bayern, and even City will come knocking.
 

BlueHaze

New Member
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
4,453
I'd say a signing like Sancho is the most important bit of business we can do this summer, the club needs a lift, the fans need a lift, and in the close season the only thing that can do that is an exciting signing

Yes we need a CB and a RB DESPERATELY but I think most fans now would take a season of 3-2's and 4-3's just to get the fun factor back

Hopefully the club of course do what's necessary in every position though
Be prepared for dissapointment then.
 

The Nani

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
1,623
Location
at the bottom of Ole’s wheel
Can we really afford to spend half our transfer budget on one position? I think this is a pipe dream and we may concentrate on getting more positions covered with our budget. Hopefully we can nab Sancho another time when we have a half decent team to supplement his talents.
Who says it has to be half. If we actually give a shite, we’ll spend upward of £300m+ this summer. Especially if Pogba and/or Lukaku leave, which is part of the lure of them going.

Time to hit the reset button. This kid should be objective A in that process. Along with De Ligt.

This summer will be a tell all. If there’s no hiding on the pitch, there isn’t a fecking twig for Woodward to hide behind now.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,562
Can we really afford to spend half our transfer budget on one position? I think this is a pipe dream and we may concentrate on getting more positions covered with our budget. Hopefully we can nab Sancho another time when we have a half decent team to supplement his talents.
No we can’t our budget is probably about 200m, he would cost at least half of that. What is the point of signing him with Young still being right back, it’s pure fantasy this guy signs and wouldn’t make sense given how many players we need. Same goes for likes of De Ligt and Koulibaly.

Also have to consider he would be crazy to sign for us, he has world at his feet and other than a payday what’s the incentive. Another year at Dortmund makes more sense for his career, he won’t be short of offers in a year.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
10,274
We don't need Sancho or Koulibally or Bruno Fernandes. What we need is new owners and a new CEO first. Then we can talk players.

We've had 6 years and 12 transfer windows to sort this shit out. What makes you think number 13 will be the one?

The club under the current regime is dead. It's over. Only way we get life back into us now is with new owners.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
No we can’t our budget is probably about 200m, he would cost at least half of that. What is the point of signing him with Young still being right back, it’s pure fantasy this guy signs and wouldn’t make sense given how many players we need. Same goes for likes of De Ligt and Koulibaly.

Also have to consider he would be crazy to sign for us, he has world at his feet and other than a payday what’s the incentive. Another year at Dortmund makes more sense for his career, he won’t be short of offers in a year.
Even if he costs £150m, 25m for Meunier + £25m for Alderweireld and that 'helps' the back 4 as well. See it's all easy peasy this transfer stuff
 

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,444
Our greatest strenght in the past is our biggest weakness now.

Our youth development has declined massively. Jadon would be wise to stay in Dortmund for the time being.
 

Fer

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
2,784
Even if he costs £150m, 25m for Meunier + £25m for Alderweireld and that 'helps' the back 4 as well. See it's all easy peasy this transfer stuff
Would you prefer Sancho, or signing Pepe AND Felix instead with the same amount of money?
BTW, Meunier + Alderweireld would be something smart to do.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
35,964
Location
Where the grass is greener.
I've been pretty hopeful and optimistic about this signing, but christ, why would he even think about making this move at the moment? It would be one thing if we were in the CL, or at the very least finishing the season strongly, but we just look dreadful. It might a short sighted way of looking at it, but with the offers he's likely to get after another successful season, why wouldn't he just wait.

We'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him, and I'm worried this time, that tactic won't be as effective this summer.
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
11,888
Location
Buckinghamshire
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
I've been pretty hopeful and optimistic about this signing, but christ, why would he even think about making this move at the moment? It would be one thing if we were in the CL, or at the very least finishing the season strongly, but we just look dreadful. It might a short sighted way of looking at it, but with the offers he's likely to get after another successful season, why wouldn't he just wait.

We'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him, and I'm worried this time, that tactic won't be as effective this summer.
@In Rainbows alluded to the fact he’s more interested in playing regularly at this point in his career. I think we’re probably the only club that can offer that, otherwise he’d might as well stay at Dortmund. I don’t know his desire to stay in Dortmund long-term, but I can’t imagine he wants it. We’re probably going to have to show him who the feck we’re signing/signed to give him any confidence though!
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
Would you prefer Sancho, or signing Pepe AND Felix instead with the same amount of money?
BTW, Meunier + Alderweireld would be something smart to do.
Never seen either of those play so couldn't comment. It's always been in United's DNA to have the best English players though so I think I'd still go for Sancho
 

Luke1995

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
3,444
?

We've got some great potential coming through. And although he's going through bad form Rashford is class.
Potential is one thing, but being ready to go into the first team and stay there for years while being productive game after game is another.
 

Swarm

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,084
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Alrighty, this might get a little lengthy but I generally find the discussion here quite interesting, even if not everyone is interested in the more detailed analysis of the Dortmund squad. I am only replying to this now because I only had my phone over the weekend and was honestly a bit gutted about that display against Bremen. :lol: Before I get into the details I want to acknowledge that @do.ob essentially made most counterpoints I had and that I would basically sign off on everything he has said. @DSG I don't mean to attack you in any way, I am really happy that you seem to be quite interested in our team and their performance, it is just curious to me how you can have watched as many of their matches as you say and then come to some conclusions that are extremely different to mine. Anyways, here goes.

Given you are a Dortmund supporter, and all of the needs Dortmund has, will Pulisic’s transfer fee be enough to cover their aspirations in the transfer market? If they buy 3-4 players, do they have the cash to spend, say, 40m in addition to the 60m+ they raised by selling Pulisic? Or will they need to sell other players?

I’ve seen a lot of Burki errors over the last 3 years. He is a good shot stopper IMHO, but is there a recency bias here?

I cannot believe that Alcacer will be the first choice striker for a club like Dortmund. His track record suggests his red hot form earlier this season was a blip rather than the norm.

I won’t comment on the Sancho transfer as it is clear that several members are reading the rumors differently than I am, which is fine. Maybe I am wrong, and he won’t move this summer or next winter. It might be better for us if Dortmund stays firm, doesn’t sell and we can use out transfer kitty to upgrade the squad in other areas, hopefully get CL football next season and table an offer for Sancho in summer 2020.
Short answer: Yes, they should have enough cash to do that. So far they have signed Alcacer for €23m and they signed Balerdi in Winter for €15m while selling Pulisic for €64m. While the german TV-deal does not pay nearly as much as it does in the PL there is still decent money to be made and they did play CL this season. While Dortmund is by no means as rich as some clubs in the PL they are not dependent on player sales. They can't afford losing their best players on a free, but as long as the players have running contracts they are not forced to sell to buy anyone. Additionally there will of course be players leaving the club in the summer. Weigl is quite likely, Dahoud might leave since he doesn't seem to make it here, Isak seems to be willing to join another club, Guerreiro might be on his way out as well. All of these players will bring in some cash and I am afraid the club will be able to function without selling Sancho this summer.

I am not sure about Alcacer yet either. I expect Dortmund to go into next season with him as first choice striker and to get someone to build up behind him. His numbers in his first season for us are decent though.

So, conclusions from today’s match.

Burki is suspect. Exhibit A, slow undeflected nutmeg on a shot outside the box, letting in a goal.

Pulisic is the best player on the field with a goal and setting up the Alcacer free kick. He absolutely abused Friedl. After that performance, I can honestly say that Favre didn’t rate Pulisic. Of course, Favre doesn’t want to play the high press, so maybe that’s it because Pulisic is absolutely made for the high press.

Guerreiro may want to play CM, but he never will because he is completely one-footed. Anyone playing him there is either desperate or stupid because he cannot switch field with a right footed pass. His future is as a LB or winger.

Akanji made an awful mistake for the second goal, and Weigl played the Bremen forward onside which almost resulted in a goal. He’s frequently in no man’s land getting passed around.

Anyway you look at it, Dortmund need to make major moves to solidify defense and GK if they want to challenge for the title. I don’t think the 65m fee for Pulisic is going to be enough to do that. That was a must win against a mediocre team and the entire defense just shit the bed.

Back to Sancho, he didn’t really do much the first 60min, started to come alive later on.
I guess we see things differently. I like Akanji, and Diallo, Zagadou as well. My opinion is that Guerreiro could be great as a LB... but he shouldn’t be moving central.

The data does not confirm the premise that Burki is a great goalkeeper.

They have a right mess on their hands with all of the tinkering the Favre has done with the squad. Bruun-Larsen is the sub that you bring on to score the winner? Ridiculous.

Weigl was brilliant in the Tuchel years as a deep lying playmaker, why has he been shuttled to the bench? Or filling in at CB???

Honestly, if Dortmund wants to seriously challenge they have work to do. Tons of talent in the squad, but very poor management of the talent.

Makes me think that Sancho should move. Because he won’t be winning trophies under this regime...
Nope. I’ve watched 25 matches at least.

Pulisic has not been good in every match. I’ve said that he has been inconsistent. Still, with his talent and Favre’s underwhelming choices (besides Pulisic) for LM, it is easy to draw the conclusion that Favre doesn’t rate Pulisic. You put the blame on Pulisic’s form, I put the blame on Favre for not showing a bit more patience given the kid’s track record.

Your analysis:

Burki is great! Definite Bundesliga-winning GK!
Guerreiro can be a great CM (as long as he is passing to the left!)
The defense is solid! Good enough to win the Bundesliga!

Yeah, I stand by my statement that Guerreiro should not play CM. Yes, the other managers were stupid to play him there. And, given the number of boneheaded errors that I have seen Burki make over the last 3 years, they do need an upgrade there. Just because he’s had 3 good months doesn’t make me forget all the costly errors he’s made in the past and the error he made today is a classic example.

Oh, and by the way, the error by Akanji wasn’t because he was playing RB. CB’s need to make that play 2-3 times a game. That’s what makes it more unbelievable.

Look, this is a Manchester United board. We are waaaayyyy off topic. You probably don’t want Sancho to leave Dortmund this season and he may not. But neither one of us knows the situation there, and the team’s performance, while on the surface looks impressive (especially the early run of form) actually raises a lot of question marks.
I will try to adress this all together.

Bürki did kind of undercut his performances this season with that blunder on Saturday. That does not change the fact, that he is playing a very strong season and I see no reason whatsoever to replace him right now. One of the aspects of his game that you might not be taking into consideration is the fact that he is quite a decent footballer. For teams that want to control games and hold the ball this has become more and more of a necessity and Bürki is very strong in this respect. Sure, a lot of goalies it bottom table clubs can shine with great reflexes on the line and you think: "Wow, he would be so much better for Dortmund" but in reality these situations do not come up as often for a top the table club (or at least they shouldn't :(). In addition to that Bürki has actually proven to be a great shotstopper as well this season. So the question is: Can Dortmund easily find a keeper that is better than Bürki, who is good with the ball, a good shotstopper and makes mistakes from time to time? Honestly I would not know who they could buy that would be a significant improvement overall.

Guerreiro is not defensively sound enough to be a LB, he is strong if there is space and less strong when the opposition does not leave a lot of space. He is a decent winger, not more, not less. I wouldn't be too fussed if he left.

Weigl was brilliant under Tuchel in a team that strived for total domination of ball and opposition. Basically a Guardiola approach to football, just not with the billion Euro squad at his disposal. That is probably on of the reasons he ultimately failed in Dortmund. I think Weigls talents would shine most in one of those extremely talented and oppressive teams where he has the time to implement his passing game and isn't held too much with ball winning. That is why a move to PSG would make a lot of sense for him. I think he could once again be brilliant there. So while I don't want Weigl to leave because he is a great dude and a good player I think for his sake he should because in a differently set up team he could once again shine. Unfortunately there are only a handful of teams where that would be the case. We will see, how this develops.

I think we just have to accept that we rate Pulisic's performances this season very differently. To me he was often the most frustrating player on the pitch, endlessly losing the ball because he took on three or four defenders at once. I really like his style and I hope he will do great things for Chelsea because I want him to succeed but this season he has mostly been absolute trash and I don't think you can fault Favre for benching him as much as he did. Bruun-Larsen may not have had a great offensive contribution in the second half of the season but he was definitely less of a defensive risk.

The defense in general was and is a bit of a problem but I generally really like all of Akanji, Diallo, Zagadou and Weigl. Balerdi I haven't seen yet, quite interested to see, how he does. I think Toprak might well be let go this summer. I will give all involved the benefit of the doubt that the injury crisis paired with the fact it was their first full season together led to some of the present issues. I still expect them to be good enough next season.

And as a final note: you complain about players not being good enough to compete for titles. That may well be but in the position Dortmund are in you can't plan on winning titles. No one really expects them to win any titles, Bayern will be winning the league for the seventh time in a row. The goal is to put together the best possible team and then see, how much that will take them. Trying to plan a title winning team would probably be too much ambition and hurt the club in the long run. That does not mean, that they don't want to challenge. But after a season like this one I am mostly happy with how things turned out. Of course I am gutted that they won't be winning and the cnuts that are Bayern will be celebrating for an afternoon. But then I look at the bigger picture and see how well they have rebounded from that awful last season and that things seem to generally be moving in the right direction. So I think you might be projecting your expectations and maybe hopes for Dortmund and complain if they can't deliver that. Overall they have actually simply done well this season, not great but well.
 

soapythecat

Full Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
3,572
Location
Glasgow resident these days.
Another player that would be great here but now is not the time. A classic big name for Woody to buy but he'd take pretty much all our budget for which we need at the very least 4 'better than what we have' players.
I think he'll move this summer and be outstanding wherever he goes.
Doubt he'd move to play for Ole anyway. Same for any top level player. We need to accept this.
 

meamth

New Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Messages
5,946
Location
Malaysia
No we can’t our budget is probably about 200m, he would cost at least half of that. What is the point of signing him with Young still being right back, it’s pure fantasy this guy signs and wouldn’t make sense given how many players we need. Same goes for likes of De Ligt and Koulibaly.

Also have to consider he would be crazy to sign for us, he has world at his feet and other than a payday what’s the incentive. Another year at Dortmund makes more sense for his career, he won’t be short of offers in a year.
Or perhaps start Dalot regularly and buy a new center back to stable the defence. Young as back up, Dalot and Sancho on the flanks.

A new high quality center back will stable the ship. We can afford spending 100m for Sancho. Go for it.
 

Swarm

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,084
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Come on lads. Derailing the thread to talk about Burkini of all players.
Sorry if that got a bit out of hand but the impressions of the Dortmund team that were expressed irked me a bit :lol:

That being said I don't feel there is much to be derailed here. There are people that think he is good enough, there are people that don't. There are people that think he will come, there are people that don't. And then there are those that want to estimate what a fair price for him would be. I think it is fair to say United are interested, it is also fair to assume Dortmund don't want to sell and there really is no information floating around to be discussed, hence this is going in circles.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,562
Or perhaps start Dalot regularly and buy a new center back to stable the defence. Young as back up, Dalot and Sancho on the flanks.

A new high quality center back will stable the ship. We can afford spending 100m for Sancho. Go for it.
Playing Dalot is what you’d like to see happen, what is most likely to happen is if we don’t buy a RB Young will be first choice.

In unlikely event he wants to join I think we’d lucky to get Sancho for 100m. We could afford that but it will impact what’s spent elsewhere this policy hasnt been successful with likes of Pogba and Lukaku.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.