Douglas Costa being touted around as an alternative.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Also what if we don't get him then don't make top 4 next season? No way he would join us.
Get him now while he wants to join. Easy decision no excuses.
Remember Griezmann not worth that risk in waiting.
Things change fast.
We want to risk not having good a right winger for another 2,3,4 seasons? There is a top class one in front of us so there is no excuses.
We miss out it is very very unlikely we end up better off.
That’s like having a plate of dog shite as an alternative to steak and chips
One he isn't great. He is more hot and cold than most players.
Two Juve will try use him to bargain for Pogba and in a Pogba deal he is worth less than nothing. At least to me.
No reason not to get Sancho unless he rejects us. Any other an the club have fecked it. Dortmund are a known quantity there players are there to be taken.
Sancho is clearly worth it. We haven't owned a right winger for a century. It's so simple.
In the podcast, Ornstein mentions the price Dortmund want is €120-130m (including add ons).Tweet
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He seems to have contacts within Sancho's camp,he was the first journo and source to report that he'd be on the bench against Schalke over the weekend
Real Madrid have also been in contact with Sancho too.
Haha! Would defo rather have Greenwood and James play off the right for the entire season with even Mata just filling in here and there.
If you look at our historic spending I think we could potentially pull off a Sancho deal but then we would be really saving on other positions.
19/20
PLAYERS IN £192.6m
PLAYERS OUT £64.78m
NET SPEND - £127.82m
18/19
IN £74.43m
OUT £27.5m
NET £46.93m
17/18
IN £178.56m
OUT £40.95m
NET £137.61m
16/17
IN £166.5m
OUT £42.53m
NET £123.97m
15/16
IN £140.4m
OUT £91.86m
NET £48.54m
14/15
IN £175.82m
OUT £44.33m
NET £132.49
13/14
IN £69.42m
OUT £1.62m
NET £67.8m
19/20
PLAYERS IN £192.6m
PLAYERS OUT £64.78m
NET SPEND - £127.82m
18/19
IN £74.43m
OUT £27.5m
NET £46.93m
17/18
IN £178.56m
OUT £40.95m
NET £137.61m
16/17
IN £166.5m
OUT £42.53m
NET £123.97m
15/16
IN £140.4m
OUT £91.86m
NET £48.54m
14/15
IN £175.82m
OUT £44.33m
NET £132.49
13/14
IN £69.42m
OUT £1.62m
NET £67.8m
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Give them a lot of unrealistic add ons.
In all seriousity would Dortmund want to sell him next year with one year left on the contract, when clubs still probably haven't got their old financial situation back? Its sellers market, so 120m seems steep if we're the only buyer in that range. On the other hand, Newcastle will be a threat on the market next year
In all seriousity would Dortmund want to sell him next year with one year left on the contract, when clubs still probably haven't got their old financial situation back? Its sellers market, so 120m seems steep if we're the only buyer in that range. On the other hand, Newcastle will be a threat on the market next year
Presumably he’d extend for a year if staying to avoid that.
£120m will not be the flat fee it will surely be with add ons. For me the best reference and what I believe Dortmund will be after is something like the Dembele deal structure.
Werner wants Liverpool because of their history. Nothing to do with the fact they're champions elect, have been back-to-back CL finalists and have Klopp as manager.
We aren`t the same team as we were under Fergie but there are signs of an upward trajectory and he is just 20 years old think he`d be willing to give us a go and be part of a young Utd team that`s hungry to get back to the top. Whatever happens is a win win for Sancho. If we still aren`t successful he will still be young and good enough to join a bigger club after making the most of the financial package we`ve offered him but if our potential signs of improvement manifest themselves his reputation will grow due to being the star of a former sleeping giant that became a powerhouse again.
Its actually 120m Euros so 105m pounds not 120m pounds. We can find a reasonable base fee for a fee like that IMO
It’s all speculation at the moment but Dortmund have previously done this:
€105m base + €42m add ons
I can see us structuring the deal in a similar vein.
This is crazy sums. I doubt we will be able to afford that this summer.
We can afford it it’s just will the Glazers green light it. Given their buisness model you would think this summer would be the best time to actually release some serious funds and take a hit on their own payback this year. An investment as such.
With the way they bought United I’m sure they will have no moral conflictions about taking advantage of a weak market. Spend money to make money and the money they get is based on marketing and success and selling the club to brands. Best way to do that is shiny exciting players and being successful and it looks like some can be taken advantage of this summer.
Will they do it who knows but if Sancho is on the move I don’t see money being a problem for us there. As many have said the deal will be structured in payments as pretty much every deal is.
I thought dortmund insisted on the dembele and pulisic money up front rather than in installments?
There is no way they will get a deal as high as 150m Euros in this market maybe pre COVID but not now BVB themselves said fees for all players will reduce. At best it`ll be 120m Euros but in a structured deal like you are saying maybe 80-90m Euros with add ons taking it to 120m
Having Fernandes, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Greenwood in the same squad would be an amazing array of attacking talent, really hope we manage to pull this off.
Well we won’t really know until end of summer but a deal which is properly structured may be possible and I’m sure the club will have people far more qualified then any of us to say either yes or no. I merely wanted to show how a similar transfer was structured. We never report lump sums when accounting anyway it’s commonplace to spread the cost as an expense over the contracted period so being honest I have no idea if we can definitely afford it but I think people are looking at the big numbers and incorrectly assuming that we’ll account for them in one season.
If you look at our historical spend even with the loss of match day revenues etc it would seem we could afford this deal but then nothing else is likely to happen without sales. Ultimately when the financial reports are released we’ll have a bit more of an insight.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....blog/2016/aug/24/transfer-window-market-myths
About halfway down does a decent job of explaining it without going into too much detail.
About halfway down does a decent job of explaining it without going into too much detail.
If only Sancho arrived in the summer, that would be good for me. Other young players are starting to kick on in other positions. If Pogba goes, Grealish in, business done.
Fair enough, when it comes to affordability, I think we can afford the deal but the matter is whether we go ahead with it.
Yep. If we can add a solid CDM like Partey to anchor Pogba/Fernandes we've got the base of a great team.
I think we can get the deal done with 100m+20m add-ons.
If we add a CDM as well we've got more than the base, we've got pretty much an entire great team.
Rashford Martial Sancho
Pogba Bruno
Partey
Shaw Maguire CB AWB
DDG
That's a side in which the only position which might look out of place in a league-winning and CL-challenging team is the second CB. And in fact you will find a worse player than Lindelof/Bailly in every single PL-winning side in history.Pogba Bruno
Partey
Shaw Maguire CB AWB
DDG
I think it's unrealistic for this season - if we get Sancho we will almost certainly not get anyone else, except possibly Bellingham if his fee isn't extortionate. But again, both Fred and McT have looked more than capable of featuring in a league-winning side this season, so the significant but not massive step up in quality to someone like Partey shouldn't really be an issue and we would still, with Sancho, 100% be aiming to win the league.
If we do a Sancho deal, I'd expect to see very deep add-ons based both on the usual team/player success but also on the impact of coronavirus on the sport. Such that if it quickly bounces back and by the end of next season it is business as usual, we will be paying significantly more than if it turns out the entire sport is going to be pushed into a financial recession. That would be fair on both United and Dortmund, protecting us from having to carry massive transfer payments if we're struggling, but also protecting them from being short-changed if everything goes back to normal.
If what Ornstein says about their stance is true, I'd expect something like €80m rising to €100m based on performances and €120 based on coronavirus recovery over the next couple of seasons. That's £72m rising to £89m rising further to £107m.
At the low end of the scale, that's cheaper than Lukaku, VVD or Pepe. At the very highest end, it's the fourth highest transfer fee of all time, level with Griezmann.
If what Ornstein says about their stance is true, I'd expect something like €80m rising to €100m based on performances and €120 based on coronavirus recovery over the next couple of seasons. That's £72m rising to £89m rising further to £107m.
At the low end of the scale, that's cheaper than Lukaku, VVD or Pepe. At the very highest end, it's the fourth highest transfer fee of all time, level with Griezmann.
And he doesn't fit Ole's ethos of going after quality, young players. His cost would be far too prohibitive for any sort of long-term benefit.
It has to get done now. I would even hold off on an announcement if the club complete the transfer so as to piss on liverpool's chips the day they are handed the league. This team always looks to be on a higher level when we are 2/3 goals to the good. With the lack of maturity we shrinked or panicked when the pressure was on but with that front six goals there are options everywhere. Keep these young men happy together and the skies the limit.
I think you may have misunderstood my explanation or what I meant by the word ‘role’.
I did suggest that one of our rivals could also get interested in SANCHO next year. But even if they were to open up a spot for him, it is not necessary that he will suddenly find them a better option than us just based on playing time.
With us, he’d become part of a young up and coming team which will provide him longevity in terms of continued success over the next 5/10 years whereas joining one of our rivals where the spine of their squads will reach the end of their prime after another 2/3 years and a rebuild will be required long before ours.
Furthermore, our rivals, who each already have multiple world star players, wouldn’t let SANCHO play that big of a major role from the get go, whereby overshadowing the roles of other star players (for instance, becoming the star of the team).
With us, his role would have much more involvement and he’d be given a lot more liberty and freedom to run the show from a pivotal standpoint, from the get go.
Also, to put things into perspective, since you had initially asked why would a player like SANCHO pick us over other teams.
A player who knows he’s going to become one of the next big ENGLISH icons, he will be wise to know the value of playing for Manchester United to take full advantage of his brand. And maximize the returns.
He could instead choose to play for Liverpool (based on their history as well) but as I mentioned they’re due another rebuild in a couple years time whereas we’ll be in our prime and not just for a couple years. Apart from that, they will probably also not be able to match our financial package offer. Which by the way, will matter just as much as trophies.
Chelsea could be an option too but they will never be held in the same regard as us or Liverpool.
Madrid or Barca are possible but even they’re both due another rebuild in a couple years time. The question about them being able to match our financial package offer again comes to mind here as well.
That leaves City, who seem like the least likely option based on all aspects (playing time, financial restraints ((FFP)), as well as a sour relationship with the player, and history even worse than Chelsea’s).
To conclude, you mentioned he should wait for the ‘best’.
In hindsight, this word refers to a different team each year.
To ask him to pick the best team in present times would be a risk to his future and risk overlooking the next best team long-term wise.
Based on his age, and our teams young age demographic, it’s justifiable to see why we seem like the best option for him.
Biggest club in England, and one of the richest in the world with no shortage of ambition.
If you were SANCHO, would you still prefer another team instead of us (having read all my reasons not to)? If yes, why?
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Exactly.
Agreed.
Also, regardless of us becoming successful or not over the next couple years, he should be allowed to leave either way if he wants to. If he’s already won a few trophies with us and wants to pull a Ronaldo to fulfill his dreams and also play for Madrid, he should surely go ahead and do that.
But if we are interested in him, this is the best time to make him a part of this team instead of in his last years. Our need in his position has never been greater and there’s no one else available whose upto his caliber, or available at the same price and age.
Best case scenario, we become a powerhouse again and he decides to stay with us for the majority of his career.
Haha. He did have a point there. Lately we have not had the same appeal as before.
But taking us out of the ‘best’ convo is a long shot nobody should take.
In reality, we’re still a dream come true for any player.
Our fan base is second to none on a global scale.
Anybody who thinks we’re not up there anymore should answer these questions; Did Pogba just leave Juventus and return back to us for the money? Knowing we didn’t have CL either?
How did Ibra join us during one of our worst times knowing fine well he was in his final years and no CL football either?
End of the day, our global image guarantees a better reputation than most other clubs.
Legends always know the worth of playing for us at any point in their careers.
I don’t think he did have a point really. I think it’s just rhetoric, it fits with the script of football, but not the reality. In fan logic, and journo article repetition, it makes sense that players wouldn’t fancy us. In reality, the facts contradict this, and there has never been a point, post-Fergie, when players have started going to City, Liverpool or Chelsea over us because we’re not as good as we used to be.
I mean, we’ve lost out on players, as we did before - but more often than not, everytime we’ve gone up against a City or Chelsea for a player we’ve invariably won the battle. Only the press have theorised that this is because the players were mercenaries. Fred, Bailly, Sanchez, Dalot, Lukaku, Maguire, Memphis, Bruno and probably others have preferred to join United over domestic rivals in recent years. The notion that players don’t want to come to us lives on the internet, in WWE terms it would be part of the storyline - it just doesn’t live in real life. Thankfully.
Got to admit that I'm surprised that you're a serious contender or maybe even the favourite for his signature, too. Would't have thought that you still have that kind of attraction towards young players.
That being said, I still think you guys exaggerate a bit. You definitely lost reputation throughout the last 5-6 years and it is a lot harder for you to sign top players than it used to be. Sancho may end up at United eventually but I think if that happens, his English and Manchester roots will play a huge part in that decision. Back in the day, you were definitely a tier above Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Chelsea, City and Liverpool in the food chain. That's no longer the case. I think especially in non-British perception, you are less attractive than you might think. Which doesn't mean that you could turn back the clock in an instance, anyway. It'd take you two great seasons at most and you're back at the top.
That being said, I still think you guys exaggerate a bit. You definitely lost reputation throughout the last 5-6 years and it is a lot harder for you to sign top players than it used to be. Sancho may end up at United eventually but I think if that happens, his English and Manchester roots will play a huge part in that decision. Back in the day, you were definitely a tier above Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Chelsea, City and Liverpool in the food chain. That's no longer the case. I think especially in non-British perception, you are less attractive than you might think. Which doesn't mean that you could turn back the clock in an instance, anyway. It'd take you two great seasons at most and you're back at the top.
I like this.
While i like what you're saying, there is less capital, less liquidity.
We're beginning to see many businesses say the next twelve months will be odd. I've said since early March things will not be back properly until 2021/22, call me Cassandra, capital and liquidity probably will be tighter. To that end, Dortmund will have to consider whether to cash in with current thinking, or wait to see whether a second wave happens (winter) at an earlier point in the financial cycle or gamble to 2021/22.
If a good offer comes in, I'd cash out..
Back in the day we were amongst the top destinations, and we still are. The only difference is what other teams have done, not what we have done. We can not control other teams becoming rich. Everyone was a tier above PSG and City back in the day. We’ve lost players like Robben and Hazard to Chelsea ‘back in the day’. Liverpool have always been a huge club, they simply couldn’t spend.
And in any case, what is your point exactly? Have we been losing an unusual amount of players to Liverpool, City, Chelsea or PSG lately or something? Or are we simply held in lower regard than them by the media, and subsequently, the media consuming fans? Since Fergie left, which I assume are the days you are now referring to, we have signed two of the 10 most expensive players in the world. We have broken the world record, PL record (twice), world record for a teenager, world record for a defender and world record for a full back all since Sir Alex left. One of those players we signed from Juventus, the other from Madrid (admittedly things had turned sour there) and the rest we signed ahead of at least one other team on the list you gave.
Other clubs can now buy good players because they have cheated their way to success is all.
If, as is expected, we sign Sancho, he will just be the latest record we have broken, and the latest player we have signed that our rivals want. What happens on the pitch is one thing. What happens in the newspapers and Twitter is another thing. And what happens in the market is a separate thing. There is no actual evidence, other than 100s of articles and idiots making ‘banter’ on Twitter that players want to come to us less than they did before.
I remember City being in for Fred, was there realistic competition for the other players?
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