Buy Phillips, garner on loan to sweeten the deal...?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Garner has a bad game, automatically he is so much worse than Fred and MCT who have been stinking the place up for about 25 games a season. And even if he is not as good at certain things compared to the other 2. someone at this club should have some vision and planning to understand that while Garner might currently being not ready, can change compared to the shit show we have witnessed from proved seniors.
The difference there is they are performing in a literal league above - a league Garner has zero minutes in.
Unless he is exceptional during pre-season training or in games he gets to play, there's no way he'll be here next season unless the coaches see something special in him.
He's got to prove himself one way or another.
Fred doesn’t belong in that sentence with McTominay. Fred has been good this season, generally misused by managers also.
Garner is still a very good prospect, no need for people to overreact.
Yes, if he was injured for a bit longer, he would have become better than Paul Scholes. In reality, he just as bad, if not worse than McT. Fred should get the same scrutiny as everyone as imo. The majority of the squad is being misused, but their level of performances is unforgivable even if Paul Ince managed them.
Please clarify what you mean by performing? They are playing and have had a part in this team conceding 52 goals, 3 less goals than relegation candidate Everton.
I agree Garner is very untested, but let's wait the pre season, and maybe even try him next season as a squad option. I'd prefer him going up with Forrest and continuing another season out on loan.
Fred worse than McTominay
Tell me your opinion is worthless without telling me your opinion is worthless.
Indeed. The guy who is nailed on to start for Brazil is worse than McT. Sure.Fred worse than McTominay
Tell me your opinion is worthless without telling me your opinion is worthless.
I'm sure when Garner, and also every other player from Manchester United, starts pre season training, and plays in the pre season games, ETH, and his coaches, will make the correct decision on the future of all these players, whether that's keeping, selling or loaning.
I, for one, don't have a clue if Garner is ready, needs another loan, or will ever be good enough for United's first team, all I will say is that he has shown more every season he has played, which is good development, whether that is good enough currently?????
I, for one, don't have a clue if Garner is ready, needs another loan, or will ever be good enough for United's first team, all I will say is that he has shown more every season he has played, which is good development, whether that is good enough currently?????
I just think this lad, will be no better than Tom Cleverley, and it’s yet another example of our fans overhyping our younger players.
The kid is a good player no doubt, but I just don’t think, he will ever make it at United.
The kid is a good player no doubt, but I just don’t think, he will ever make it at United.
Why the rush to bring Garner back to be just a sguad option next year? He'll compete with Fred, McT, DvdB, Bruno and Mejbri as well as at least one if not two new DM/CM signings. It's very little that suggests that he will get the playing time that he needs to continue his development into becoming a midfielder for a top-4-club in the PL.
Loan him out to a premier league team the coming season to develop and get PL-experience, preferrably a promoted Forest, and just maybe we will have a 22yo ready to play his part from the 23/24-season.
Next summer Fred has a year left on his contract and should perhaps be moved on, and both of McT and DvdB could also be told to move on. The path is open for Garner in the longer term - IF we let him develop and give him the best circumstanses to do it.
Loan him out to a premier league team the coming season to develop and get PL-experience, preferrably a promoted Forest, and just maybe we will have a 22yo ready to play his part from the 23/24-season.
Next summer Fred has a year left on his contract and should perhaps be moved on, and both of McT and DvdB could also be told to move on. The path is open for Garner in the longer term - IF we let him develop and give him the best circumstanses to do it.
Yet here you are wasting my time.Fred worse than McTominay
Tell me your opinion is worthless without telling me your opinion is worthless.
That's the thing with young players, you never know how are they going to adapt. He could be doing much better on loan yet fail to make the grade which shows. The quality of our midfield is in such dire condition that could benefit Garner, but only time will tell.
I don't think Garner's chances of making it here are particularly good but this is a terrible take. Cleverley is a woeful nothing player despite his early promise. Garner will be a decent Prem player at least I think - he actually has some bravery on the ball and even for his set pieces alone he'd get a gig somewhere.
I think the overall standard of championship has been quite underestimated. Players like Kalvin Phillips, Conor Gallager and Mason Mount has all tranformed thier outstanding performance in efl to epl.
Wes Brown was a good CB/RB, but injuries wrecked him, he had a decent run with the team in 2005/2008.
Darren Fletcher also had good run and was a quality CM from 2008/09 season where he averaged 40 games in 3 seasons until his illness.
But I agree with your overall point in the overhyping the academy players, only Pogba & Greenwood matched the quality of Giggs, Scholes & Beckham (ability or talent wise only, not performances on the pitch), I will add Morrison & Januzaj too in terms of talent alone, and that's about it, none of the Academy grads had the special ability/talent as the names I mentioned, or succeeded as those from co92. Hopefully it changes with Garner, Laird, Hannibal, Elanga and others, I don't want them to be as good as Giggs & Scholes were, that would be too much to ask, maybe be as good as Brown & Fletcher were, which means they can become solid squad options that can compete for a starting spot in team that is competing at the highest level.
I'm sorry that reading 2 sentences took so much time, I'll make sure to shorten them for you in future.Yet here you are wasting my time.
Give him til Jan in the squad I reckon. Can always go on loan then if it's not worked out.
This sounds like the smart move.
The flip side it Mitrovich just broke the goal record with 43 goals in 43 games after 24 goals in 104 PL games. I see it as a great place for loanees as it’s a direct and physical league but not where we should be recruiting directly from.
It also depends what will be done on the transfer market. DVB, Fred, McT and possibly Pogba, plus a new midfield would be a stacked up midfield for Garner to get enough minutes.
What's been unfortunate is that since co92 our best youth products have been derailed for one reason or another.
It's not a lack of talent. It's been bad luck and a bad run of attitude problems.
So I wouldn't say its a question of overrating the youth products. It's more jumping the gun and not appreciating how many things outside of talent have to go right for a young lad to fully make it.
Been guilty of it myself.
So I've felt for years Garner can make it but I'd no longer say it about any youth player with certainty.
I get that Garner is a solid lad. He also looks to be a reasonably skilled player but can you imagine what players like Greenwood or Pogba would be doing in the championship/FA cup at the same age? It would be too saucy for daytime tv. Garner may eventually become a solid squad player but you have people on here saying he’s already better than Fred or Williams is better than Telles and it’s pure agenda driven horse shit. Some posters just can’t resist/help themselves.
I actually don’t think our over promotion of youth would have been nearly as much of a constant issue if we’d put the likes of greenwood Lingard Rashford Morrison or Pogba with players like Ronaldo or Zlatan for longer or VVD or players like that (genuine captain material with performances to back it up) or more of the unspectacular but super driven type of players Liverpool keep finding. It’s just all been the other way. Who can be the most flash or who has the biggest interests out of football. We don’t want players who think they transcend the club, we obviously want the very best players in the world but who also fully buy into the clubs ethos for as long as they are here. Anyway ability wise those lads mentioned above are streets ahead of Garner as youth and they didn’t even properly make it here (beyond financially)
Love or hate Fred or McT, Garner probably needs to do it in the PL or at a higher level abroad again before he’s actually ready to push into our squad (and get the wages and fame that go with it) or we will be stuck with him like we are with Pereira or Williams. Look at Gallagher. Shout for YPOTY and it’s probably 50/50 on whether he goes on loan again or not. Livramento not far off it. Lamptey…Gilmour… They are currently on a different planet to Laird or Garner or even Hannibal. We have to stop making the mistake of treating players like they’ve made it when there’s so much left to do and to prove before we give them the keys and the pressure and expectation that goes with playing for us, If we want to start winning again at least.
Any idea how he played today?
The difference with the players you mentioned is that they got moves to teams with little to no expectations, so they can get plenty of minutes without any pressure on their development. Not every player is the same, some thrive in a first team environment others get great experience from loans.
I think Garner can be a squad option for us, but ideally a rotational one, if that’s not enough for minutes we should try and secure him a PL loan, ideally Forest will go up and he will stay there next season.
Very quiet game for him so far today against Sheffield United. Needs to impose himself on games more.
He has a great delivery, there's no doubt about that.
I really want him to be good enough.... I just don't see it as more than a squad player. His potential ceiling to me looks like JWP. Good set pieces and a good cross, gets stuck in but nothing amazing in any department (except not as elite as JWP at set pieces. JWP is a really good player now but it took him a long time to get to his current level, I just don't see it with Garner being more than that ever.
If Forrest secure promotion, I'd hope he stays there for a season in the prem.
If Forrest secure promotion, I'd hope he stays there for a season in the prem.
Quiet game in possession without a doubt, noticed him doing a lot of work defensively though. Seems to be covering both flanks defensively and often times left in midfield to do it alone.
Spence is a player we really should be looking at before his price doubles or triples in a few years. Really athletic, strong and good on the ball
Spence is a player we really should be looking at before his price doubles or triples in a few years. Really athletic, strong and good on the ball
This is clearly the best option. I really like him but despite all the talk about ETH promoting youth I cannot imagine Garner or Levitt for that matter being more than fringe players if they stay as we know Bruno, Fred, DVB and McTominay will still be here and we are supposedly signing two more CMs which leaves little room for anyone else. Cooper is an excellent coach and a season of Premier League football as a regular starter would be huge for James development at this point. Still most likely will end up as a lower PL style of player but worst case we end up getting the kind of transfer fee Liverpool keep pulling in for their cast offs instead of just tossing him away on free as we have been guilty of doing too often with our youngsters.
I've watched him play four times this season, and each time the most glaring thing is that he barely gets involved (something which seems to be a regular thing going by comments). There are glimpses of class when he actually gets on the ball, but he needs to improve his involvement in games significantly to make it in the PL let alone us.
In this game it was even worse as there were numerous times that he was defensively lazy as well. I noticed multiple times where he was barely jogging along while his opposition man got away from him into space to receive the ball in a dangerous position.
In this game it was even worse as there were numerous times that he was defensively lazy as well. I noticed multiple times where he was barely jogging along while his opposition man got away from him into space to receive the ball in a dangerous position.
So he’s been watching what he needs to do to get into our first xi…but on serious note if he does this as well then he can stay on loan.
I'm trying really hard to see the hype but he looks bang average to me. At the very least if he could try to play more line breaking passes and show for the ball it would be a start. Haven't watched him all season like some but unless I've been unlucky it seems his best attribute is taking corners and playing it safe.
Its worth remembering that Liverpool sold Rhian Brewster for £20m. Maybe we should start being more shrewd and moving players along whilst they have value.
Its worth remembering that Liverpool sold Rhian Brewster for £20m. Maybe we should start being more shrewd and moving players along whilst they have value.
If that's his ceiling then he will be a very good squad/backup player for us. I don't think he will be a world beater but I think with the right coaching he has the tools to be a useful player for us.
We will not have 20 world class players covering every outfield position with a world class player. James could be our 'Nicky Butt', covering for injuries, suspensions, cup games. He will get more than enough games, especially if we get rid of Mac Fred
Problem is that players don't hit their ceiling without regular game time. Don't want him to come and just stall out like Tuanzebe and others due to not being good enough to get more game time but good enough to be in the squad.
I think he could find a sweet spot between Tuanzebe(never playing football) and getting enough games to be of value and improve himself.
I've watched Garner sincw he was 17/18. Always really liked him and believe he has the ability.
But....he seems a quiet lad and I'm not sure as things are he has the confidence and ego to be a centre mid at United. It's why he's not as involved in games now as he should be. Hasn't got that personalilty type to dominate.
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Yeah. He has bits of pieces where he shows really good quality, but it's just not enough. Compare that to Billy Gilmour at the euros for example. That's the sort of style Garner should have and dominating with his passing, most touches on the pitch, progressing the ball etc. Very much a peripheral midfielder and makes me think he won't step up, but you never know with deeper mids. Sometimes just takes a while.
I was rooting for Sheffield all season because of Jokanović but only now realized he had left 6 months ago... I'll now support Forest to promotion cuz of Jimmy Garner, they're two times European champions after all.
Didn't watch the game but he had 65.2% pass completion and made only 23 passes.
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