Under Ten Hag? We had Casemiro, Fred, Eriksen, McTominay for those positions, with the club knowing that Kobbie was close to breaking through. I can’t see how he could have got the same minutes.
James Garner - Player Watch
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
So, no proper 6?
I think he'd have ended up starting for ETH - purely as Case fell off a cliff and there was some kind of bust up and he'd be the only option that in any way plays the deeper role. Has no bearing on if he'd have been good for us, but he'd have got mins.
We played 4231, Casemiro was just bought for £50 million to be the number 6 if you want to call it that. He was clearly way down the pecking order for the two spots behind Bruno.
He’s had three full seasons of development and I’m still not sure he’s good enough to be starting for a team aiming to be in the champions league (not saying we are, but we need to be buying players of that quality).
Spot on.
Watchu Garner do?Give me back my Garner !
I think and believe Ten Hag and United did a mistake here. He definitely had a controlling and playmaking ability as a nr.6 cm player.
But Ten Hag want Frenkie De Jong and didnt rate Garner good enough.
His controlling ability as a nr.6 and cm player as general is higher than Toby Collyer. When it come to creative, controlling and spreading the passes around.
Right now. I think i rate him close to a very good level. He definitely has the speed and tempo, with and without the ball. To match premier league. Clearly not top level yet. So he still can improve and we will never how high he can reach. Time will tell.
And the positive is. His mood is consistent. Always 100 % and a player you can trust and rely on.
But Ten Hag want Frenkie De Jong and didnt rate Garner good enough.
His controlling ability as a nr.6 and cm player as general is higher than Toby Collyer. When it come to creative, controlling and spreading the passes around.
Right now. I think i rate him close to a very good level. He definitely has the speed and tempo, with and without the ball. To match premier league. Clearly not top level yet. So he still can improve and we will never how high he can reach. Time will tell.
And the positive is. His mood is consistent. Always 100 % and a player you can trust and rely on.
Garner's problem was his mentality, he couldnt take his chance when in the first team. Maybe he was too young but and CM is extremely difficult to play at top level too young, but he didnt convince anyone, he only become useful last season for much lower key team like Everton. Many players develop better this way, because they cant take pressure. Or simply teams are more patient with them because they dont aspire to play for titles right away.
Less than a year after we sold Garner we signed Sofyan Amrabat due to the need for a DM. Someone capable of playing more as a #6.
I find it very hard to believe that there was no room for devloping a player like Garner. We just decided not to, and instead wasted time and money on less talented players. Like Amrabat and Ugarte.
Hindsight is 50/50, but I don’t think Garner was pulling up any trees in his first season, certainly not enough that we wouldn’t have gone for another midfielder. The fact that we’ve bought dross is a different discussion.
For what it’s worth, I think unless you’re an absolute top talent, the route we’re seeing a lot of players go, from a Man City or Chelsea to a lower PL team is fantastic for their development.
He made his debut as a 90th min sub and played a European tie - that is the extent of the chances he got in the first team at United
I agree with the sentiment of your post - more often than not it is better for players to move down to get first team football and accelerate their progression rather than being a bit part player. However with Garner, the thing is we didn't even give him a season! His only cameos came before he had 3 increasingly impressive loan spells, and then he was sold without featuring again. It was a bit odd to let him leave without giving him a year to challenge for a position especially as he was the type of midfielder we were missing capable of playing a deeper role.
That said, the other thing people don't seem to mention is what the player wants. Garner is from Liverpool, not sure if he's a boyhood Everton fan or not, but either way it'd make sense why he might prefer to move him and have a less obstructed route to first team football.
In a different timeline that United is managed a lot better in, I think our "depth" midfield trio could have been Mctominay, Garner and Mainoo.
Garner wasn't good enough for United, and still isn't good enough for United. United's recent bad performances don't change that. He wouldn't have been worthy of minutes ahead of any of present day Casemiro, Ugarte or Mainoo.
Just check out his stats for his supposed good performances at Everton; they are worse than every one of those three United midfielders in basically every measure (basically the only exception is his better interception and block rate than Mainoo, but his passing, dribbling, creativity and scoring stats are waay worse):
https://fbref.com/en/players/4e015693/James-Garner
I didn't say he was good enough for United, but thanks.
Also, citing stats as complete proof of a point is silly.
Yet if you look at squawka comparison for this season Garner comes out looking much better than them all. Sometimes stats and fbref aren't the be all and end all, especially when someone like Garner is having to play in multiple different roles because of his versatility and game intelligence. You just need to watch him this season to see that he's doing well and much better thus far than any of United's midfielders.
Alot of those numbers came from him playing out of position under Sean Dyche. They are very misleading. Looking at data, context is key.
His stats from this season is quite similar to Casemiro at Man Utd (but gives the ball away less), and alot better than Ugarte and Mainoo. Small sample size for Garner and alot of minutes out of position admittedly.
https://fbref.com/stathead/player_c...24fe8&player_id3=c9817014&player_id4=c6220452
Amrabat and Ugarte were much better players than Garner at what they were brought for - defensive capacity. And they were/are almost being booed out. This idea that young players are going to develop nicely with two years of being booed out for being ‘worse than MCFred/Amrabat/Ugarte/Mainoo’ is not always a very realistic idea.
Absolute car crash of a post. As has already been pointed out by others referring to stats without context is pointless. He would walk into our midfield at the moment. Laughable to suggest otherwise.
Great cross. Good half. Bring him home.
His contract is up next June. Interesting to see what happens.
Moyes hinted that they have sn option for one more year and are looking to extend. But yes, if he dont, they are likely to sell him in january or next summer.
Another one, similar to Alvaro who had just had a brilliant season in the championship
Let’s give him a chance….oh no wait…let’s feck him off instead at the earliest opportunity and waste massive amounts of money on alternatives.
Let’s give him a chance….oh no wait…let’s feck him off instead at the earliest opportunity and waste massive amounts of money on alternatives.
Yeah I’m pretty sure that isn’t how it went
Hindsight is everyone’s best friend here.
Everyone was glad we finally cashed in on a youth player back when we sold him.
Also Garner is now 24, and it’s his third season playing for Everton where he hasn’t especially light the PL on fire and had a not so easy start with Everton.
What his trajectory can tell us though is that it’s stupid to have definite opinions on a player’s level too soon, and deem that a 20yo is not good enough and should be sold because he’s not a consistent and fully developped player
Everyone was glad we finally cashed in on a youth player back when we sold him.
Also Garner is now 24, and it’s his third season playing for Everton where he hasn’t especially light the PL on fire and had a not so easy start with Everton.
What his trajectory can tell us though is that it’s stupid to have definite opinions on a player’s level too soon, and deem that a 20yo is not good enough and should be sold because he’s not a consistent and fully developped player
Thanks.
And, let’s face it, United is not exactly a prime spot for a youngster in their formative years as a senior player.
He’s probably much better off for having been sold.
He had his brilliant promotion season playing 40 games in 21/22. He was sold quickly thereafter
The following season Alvaro similarly had his breakout season winning young player of the year at Preston in 22/23. After another season on loan he was similarly sold quickly
But please, if you think anything other than this happened, do let us know.
Garner's a hard worker, good mentality, can strike a decent ball and cover positions across midfield. All managers love that type in a squad even if they won't be 8 or 9/10 many games.
He's what Milner became when he moved to Man. City and Liverpool albeit Milner was rated at higher level with his regular appearances in England squad and what he did at Villa.
Garner did leave Man. United three years ago now and didn't play that much for Everton in the first season. Getting in Eriksen blocked his pathway to at least being a regular bench player.
He's what Milner became when he moved to Man. City and Liverpool albeit Milner was rated at higher level with his regular appearances in England squad and what he did at Villa.
Garner did leave Man. United three years ago now and didn't play that much for Everton in the first season. Getting in Eriksen blocked his pathway to at least being a regular bench player.
At 24 Carrick was still playing for West Ham at Championship.
At everton he has had plenty of game time doing nothing, under no pressure, allowing him to slowly develop. Zero chance of that here. Anyone who thinks we made a mistake selling him is crazy.
We barely gave him any chances because our managers are always concerned about their job security and unless a young player immediately impresses, they’re always going to default back to the big names.
Harsh. He didn’t get much of a chance at United
While he's good i think he's definitely found his level at Everton.
Garner actually played in the first team he made 7 first team appearances. He didn’t do much in those appearances hence why we sold him. Alvaro never played in the first team so it’s completely different to Garners situation.
Yeah, exactly this.
Who knows how he would develop for us given the clusterfeck our midfield is.
We had two 20 year olds in our attack all last season. Yoro has played loads. Mainoo loads of gametime under ETH. He'd be playing now if his cardio was better. Dorgu at 20 is starting every week.
We give plenty of gametime to young players. Too much if anything.
But the reality is most players aren't ready for United util they're about 23 or 24. So its really hard to have a promising 18 year old and then nurse them through for 5 years or so.
I always really rated Garner in the youth teams but its taken until now for him to be possibly ready for United.
But we absolutely should be bringing him back.
Pleased to see him doing well, i always felt he'd end up in our first team based on his youth games. He's one of them that if he'd been around in Fergie days i think he'd have got a shot. If SAF hadnt retired we'd have had McT, Garner, Cleverley and Kobbie as CM options and we'd be challenging for top spot, im sure of it!
How old is Cleverley?!
Only 36! Just in time for his Scholes-eque return to the stage. Grab a pair of Umbros from sports direct on the way to the stadium and off you go.