James Garner to Nottingham Forest - Loan watch 2020-21

Drainy

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Is it fair to say that the team could really do with a player of Garner’s style? We’ve not managed to replace Carrick yet (Matic was okay for a couple of years).
yes it is fair to say that. Its up to him to prove he is ready to step up into United's first team- he certainly has the skills, but its application that matters.
 

Adam-Utd

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The swaz on that :drool:

As another comment above, that's a Pogba pass if I've seen one. Once this kid gets used to that level he's going to be our own version of Neves IMO.
 

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Decided to have a look at the Forrest match today to see how Garner does. He looks excellent on the ball, his work rate is good and his positioning has been solid. Could have gotten himself more involved and tried to create some more because he is more than capable and playing in a position that should have allowed him to have a bigger influence. A promising performance and definitely looks like someone who could go onto play for the first team in some capacity.
 

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It seems he's getting start with Forest very well. He had good amount of tacket and intercept each game, and now among top rating in the team.
I have high hope on him if he can continue performing like this until the end of season.
 

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They've played 5 games this month, picking up 10 points, suffering one 1-0 loss to Swansea. Looking very good.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Anyone know where they have used him so far in Nottingham Forest? More as a CM/box to box or more as a holding midfielder?
 

GoldTrafford99

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Garner is the exact type of player Ole's United are crying out for...

Fingers crossed his development continues at this trajectory... a more-than-fine prospect..

When you look at the talent in our academy it is just staggering...

Who watches the U-23s... have you seen Hannibal and Diallo link up together over the past few games? It's droo-inducing. It reminds me of George Best and Rodney Marsh when they used to play for Fulham and would just take the piss out of the opposition...

Any Man United fan not super excited by quite how Ole Solskjaer has totally transitioned our football club since coming back in is off the scale missing the whole point...
 

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I've been excited about him for a long time, and he seems to finally be hitting a level where he could be in line for a place in the squad.

If he could get another good loan next season he could be primed to come in when Matic leaves.
 

P-Nut

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Could play for us next season as we need someone in that role. His passing ability would on show more at United.
I'd worry about him not getting the game time to develop enough. He'd likely have Matic Fred, McT and possibly Pogba all ahead of him.
 

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I'd worry about him not getting the game time to develop enough. He'd likely have Matic Fred, McT and possibly Pogba all ahead of him.
Matic is really struggling now, I think if Ole decided to bring Garner into the equation it would be an acknowledgement that Matic can't hack the pace any more. He'd essentially be competing with Fred to play the #6 role, which seems a healthy situation for both to me. He'll get enough game time but will have to prove himself to get more.
 

P-Nut

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Matic is really struggling now, I think if Ole decided to bring Garner into the equation it would be an acknowledgement that Matic can't hack the pace any more. He'd essentially be competing with Fred to play the #6 role, which seems a healthy situation for both to me. He'll get enough game time but will have to prove himself to get more.
Yeah I'd be happy if Matic went and Garner stepped up, but if Matic is still here I reckon he'd be the one used more unfortately.
 

YAMS49

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Anyone know where they have used him so far in Nottingham Forest? More as a CM/box to box or more as a holding midfielder?
He's part of a double pivot in a 4-2-3-1, he's playing well but doesn't yet demand the ball enough for my liking. Being local I listen to most Forest games on the radio. He's doing well no doubt, as are Forest since his arrival. But he's part of the reason why, not the only reason.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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Got a good feeling about this kid, I hope he can get a loan move to a PL club next year. Would be better for his development than a few cup games for us.
 

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Yeah I'd be happy if Matic went and Garner stepped up, but if Matic is still here I reckon he'd be the one used more unfortately.
You are never going to realistically be able to offer these kids a straight shot at lots of game time. But if Garner, after a season of loan football, can't displace a Matic who looks well off the pace and isn't being risked in two games in a row any more, then does he really deserve the opportunity?
 

kundalini

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Matic is really struggling now, I think if Ole decided to bring Garner into the equation it would be an acknowledgement that Matic can't hack the pace any more. He'd essentially be competing with Fred to play the #6 role, which seems a healthy situation for both to me. He'll get enough game time but will have to prove himself to get more.
Having just watched several of those - all touches in the match - vids, Garner doesn't look remotely ready to be competing for a place in United's midfield. His stats on WhoScored don't look anything like a United midfielder's either, though perhaps there is good reason for that and he is currently Forest's highest rated player. There is one impressive outside of the boot, crossfield pass and perhaps another couple of decent long passes into the channel that the Forest forward ran on to.

I'm not passing any judgement on how good a player he will become in time but right now, Solskjaer would not be playing Garner ahead of Matic in any serious competitive game.

If you don't believe me, watch the videos yourself and tell me what it is he adds that our current players don't do every game.
 
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Brightonian

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Having just watched several of those - all touches in the match - vids, Garner doesn't look remotely ready to be competing for a place in United's midfield. His stats on WhoScored don't look anything like a United midfielder's either, though perhaps there is good reason for that and he is currently Forest's highest rated player.

I'm not passing any judgement on how good a player he will become in time but right now, Solskjaer would not be playing Garner ahead of Matic in any serious competitive game.

If you don't believe me, watch the videos yourself and tell me what it is he adds that our current players don't do every game.
You've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying Solskjaer would start him ahead of Matic. I'm saying since Matic is never risked in two games in a row, Garner would get guaranteed game time and if he couldn't use that game time to work his way ahead of Matic in the pecking order - Matic who opposition midfielders are simply running past because he hasn't got the legs any more - then it's not a case of us throwing him in too early, but of him not deserving it.

I don't think it's fair to compare stats. Garner is playing for Notts Forest at the bottom of the Championship, it's a totally different context. I don't need to watch the videos as I've watched the full matches. What he's doing that Matic is not doing, is stopping opposition midfielders from running straight at the defence.

Fred is obviously a different ballgame. He is doing well as a #6 at the moment despite it not being his ideal position, and I wouldn't expect Garner to get any game time ahead of him. But I think he could work his way above Matic simply by virtue of having the legs for it.
 

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Got a good feeling about this kid, I hope he can get a loan move to a PL club next year. Would be better for his development than a few cup games for us.
Next season midfield will be an issue so I can see him staying.

Pogba will no doubt be leaving so we will have:

McTominay, Fred, Van de Beek and an aging Matic - then potentially Garner, Mejbri, and Levitt at a stretch - or the alternative is to play Tuanzebe at defensive midfield.

I doubt we will be spending any of our limited resources on a midfielder unless there is a bargain available because the focus will be on striker and centre back, so I think Mejbri and Garner will be promoted to add depth to the options.

Left side pivot:

Fred
Matic
Garner

Right side pivot:

McTominay
Van de Beek
Garner
Mejbri

I mean, looking at that he would get games.
 

P-Nut

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You've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying Solskjaer would start him ahead of Matic. I'm saying since Matic is never risked in two games in a row, Garner would get guaranteed game time and if he couldn't use that game time to work his way ahead of Matic in the pecking order - Matic who opposition midfielders are simply running past because he hasn't got the legs any more - then it's not a case of us throwing him in too early, but of him not deserving it.

I don't think it's fair to compare stats. Garner is playing for Notts Forest at the bottom of the Championship, it's a totally different context. I don't need to watch the videos as I've watched the full matches. What he's doing that Matic is not doing, is stopping opposition midfielders from running straight at the defence.

Fred is obviously a different ballgame. He is doing well as a #6 at the moment despite it not being his ideal position, and I wouldn't expect Garner to get any game time ahead of him. But I think he could work his way above Matic simply by virtue of having the legs for it.
Where would he be guaranteed game time? Matic would be the back up hardly ever starting as he has been doing lately anyway.

Fred and McT would take most of the minutes as first choice. If Pogba leaves and isn't replaced I'd expect Matic and DvB to be the back ups. Garner would likely be 5th choice at best here next season.
 

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Whilst there's nothing overly impressive from a technical standpoint in this video, I would be buoyed by the fact he looks like he can handle himself physically.

It really can't be over-stated how big a plus that is, considering the sheer number of players that go from youth sides to senior level and struggle because they can't handle the physicality (Levitt here recently as one example).

It seems from what I've read about Garner, he's shown in the Utd youth set-up that technically he's a good player with plenty of talent, so these types of loans are all about the player showing they can handle the physical transition to senior football and impose themselves on a game. He looks like he is able to do so from all the highlight videos I've seen so far - at 19 doing so in the Championship is really encouraging.
 

Garethw

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Garner is the exact type of player Ole's United are crying out for...

Fingers crossed his development continues at this trajectory... a more-than-fine prospect..

When you look at the talent in our academy it is just staggering...

Who watches the U-23s... have you seen Hannibal and Diallo link up together over the past few games? It's droo-inducing. It reminds me of George Best and Rodney Marsh when they used to play for Fulham and would just take the piss out of the opposition...

Any Man United fan not super excited by quite how Ole Solskjaer has totally transitioned our football club since coming back in is off the scale missing the whole point...
Solskjaer has absolutely nothing to do with the academy success. Nicky Butt is the one that deserves the credit for that.
 

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Solskjaer has absolutely nothing to do with the academy success. Nicky Butt is the one that deserves the credit for that.
I think the poster said 'transitioned our football club', not particularly the academy. But you are right that Nicky Butt is the main reason the academy is looking so good at the moment. I think, but not 100% certain, that NB was in place before Mourinho was sacked, I'm sure someone will put me right on that. But Ole and he would have had many discussions over the past couple of years about the academy and the way forward, so he would have had a small input.
As this is the James Garner thread, I would like to say that he seems very happy playing for Forest, I think Hughton has probably given him a defined role, whereas at Watford, he seemed to be played in different positions. He is looking more like the player I hoped he would become, but whether he is ready for United first team yet I'm not sure. When he comes back for pre season Ole will have to determine if he gives him a chance or feels another half season or full season loan would be more beneficial. In the role he looks destined to play, he needs as much experience as possible, whereas with a forward player, like Greenwood and Diallo, the exuberance of youth sometimes is a bonus, as they can try things that a player in Garner's position probably couldn't, so a 6 month loan to a Prem club next season may be Garner's best way forward.
 
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Kag

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Having just watched several of those - all touches in the match - vids, Garner doesn't look remotely ready to be competing for a place in United's midfield. His stats on WhoScored don't look anything like a United midfielder's either, though perhaps there is good reason for that and he is currently Forest's highest rated player. There is one impressive outside of the boot, crossfield pass and perhaps another couple of decent long passes into the channel that the Forest forward ran on to.

I'm not passing any judgement on how good a player he will become in time but right now, Solskjaer would not be playing Garner ahead of Matic in any serious competitive game.

If you don't believe me, watch the videos yourself and tell me what it is he adds that our current players don't do every game.
Spoken like a fella who’s never watched a Championship game in his life.

Garner (or any lad his age) doesn’t go to a side like Forest and play against Blackburn and make 80 passes per game. You go there and get stuck in, follow tactical instructions and maintain discipline. Show some quality amidst the rough and tumble. The rest comes later, probably at a different club.
 

Kag

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Another full season with Chris Hughton at Forest wouldn’t be a bad thing provided Garner continues to do well there. Hughton’s track record is about as solid as it gets and he’ll have them in and around the top six next season. He’ll get more out of that than a season trying to make do at a lower Premier League club, or wasting time spent on United’s bench (see Tuanzebe, who desperately needed and needs regular football).
 

kundalini

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Spoken like a fella who’s never watched a Championship game in his life.

Garner (or any lad his age) doesn’t go to a side like Forest and play against Blackburn and make 80 passes per game. You go there and get stuck in, follow tactical instructions and maintain discipline. Show some quality amidst the rough and tumble. The rest comes later, probably at a different club.
That's perfectly fair.

I even think Garner is doing well for his age. But based on what I've seen, I'd be looking for him to go out on loan for another season or two before coming back to compete for a place at United.

United is a pretty brutal environment for players that either aren't ready or have lost confidence.
 

Kag

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That's perfectly fair.

I even think Garner is doing well for his age. But I'd be looking for him to go out on loan for another season or two before coming back to compete for a place at United.
So would I. Like I said above, another season on at Forest could work wonders. I fully expect that Hughton will have them challenging for promotion.
 

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His biggest strength at the moment is defensively - he’s putting up great numbers in terms of tackling and interceptions. He’s going to be a bit of a beast in that regard when he develops physically I think. Watching the video from yesterday that’s the first time he’s done some nice combinations in midfield so hopefully an understanding is developing. Each match he’ll do one great pass which shows he has fantastic technique - the problem is he’s in a 2 banks of 4 behind the ball side who have no interest in playing out from the back. He’s gone into a struggling championship side at 19 and become one of their most important players. He’s been highly rated by everyone at the club for some time so the fact he’s done that and his attitude seems spot on bodes well.
 

Drainy

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His biggest strength at the moment is defensively - he’s putting up great numbers in terms of tackling and interceptions. He’s going to be a bit of a beast in that regard when he develops physically I think. Watching the video from yesterday that’s the first time he’s done some nice combinations in midfield so hopefully an understanding is developing. Each match he’ll do one great pass which shows he has fantastic technique - the problem is he’s in a 2 banks of 4 behind the ball side who have no interest in playing out from the back. He’s gone into a struggling championship side at 19 and become one of their most important players. He’s been highly rated by everyone at the club for some time so the fact he’s done that and his attitude seems spot on bodes well.
I mean that is very promising because that was what he needed to work on. Everyone knows he's a player who can ping the ball about, has a good strike and has good vision. It was defensive discipline, tracking runners and work rate that he needed to improve on loan.
 

GoldTrafford99

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Solskjaer has absolutely nothing to do with the academy success. Nicky Butt is the one that deserves the credit for that.

Wow. That couldn't be more untrue....

Solskjaer's five year plan that he sold Woodward included totally recycling the academy... have you not noticed the changes as soon as Ole came in? We've literally signed the best young players from academies all over the world in the past 20-months... we're about to sign another one soon, I believe.

There were quotes made yesterday by an ex academy coach at Carrington saying how dead the academy and the wider reach of the club was under Mourinho and that it is now back on fire under Ole...

Ole has totally rejuvinated the whole club, the whole wider expanse of the club. Honestly, ask anybody associated with the club... In fact, his plan meant moving Nicky Butt (as you mentioned him) into a new position. Butt has gone on record a number of times, recently on an MUTV group chat, saying Ole has brought the entire wider club back to life.. Butt says it's a myth to suggest LvG and Jose totally ignored the youth set ups, but that he "much prefers" what's going on since Ole came back in.
 
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AltiUn

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Wow. That couldn't be more untrue....

Solskjaer's five year plan that he sold Woodward included totally recycling the academy... have you not noticed the changes as soon as Ole came in? We've literally signed the best young players from academies all over the world in the past 20-months... we're about to sign another one soon, I believe.

There were quotes made yesterday by an ex academy coach at Carrington saying how dead the academy and the wider reach of the club was under Mourinho and that it is now back on fire under Ole...

Ole has totally rejuvinated the whole club, the whole wider expanse of the club. Honestly, ask anybody associated with the club... In fact, his plan meant moving Nicky Butt into a new position. Butt has gone on record a number of times, recently on an MUTV group chat, saying Ole has brought the entire wider club back to life..
The background changes to the academy have been going on since LvG's time here, he also had nothing to do with the academy changes either. It's desperately unfair to attribute a plan that's been in motion for years to Solskjaer and actually takes the credit away from the people who deserve it.
 

GoldTrafford99

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The background changes to the academy have been going on since LvG's time here, he also had nothing to do with the academy changes either. It's desperately unfair to attribute a plan that's been in motion for years to Solskjaer and actually takes the credit away from the people who deserve it.

Nonsense.

Ask anybody associated with the club... I've just given you examples of an ex coach saying how much it turned around under Ole and a current coach who has explained how much it has changed around under Ole... What more do you want? FACTS that our recruitment of younger players has gone up ten fold since Ole came in? well, they're all there for you to see if you wanna bother looking for them.

I'll take the facts from which I can read with my own eyes (and they're not hard to find on the internet) and the quotes from all the coaches, ex and current, over your random opinion based on nothing.

Ole has transformed the club, he has transformed the academy. FACT!

Ask anybody associated with the club.

Anyone and everyone with snippets of info coming from Sir Alex Ferguson says he is absolutely thrilled with the redevelopment of the wider expanse of the club, yet AltiUn on the old RedCaf doesn't agree...
 

AltiUn

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Nonsense.

Ask anybody associated with the club... I've just given you examples of an ex coach saying how much it turned around under Ole and a current coach who has explained hoe much it has changed around under Ole... What more do you want? FACTS that our recruitment of young layers has gone up ten fold since Ole came in.... well, they're all there for you to see if you wanna bother looking for them.

I'll take the facts from which I can read with my own eyes (and they're not hard to find on the internet) and the quotes from all the coaches, ex and current, over your random opinion based on nothing.

Ole has transformed the club, he has transformed the academy. FACT!
It's not nonsense, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a very in-depth and detailed thread about the entire process we've been going through in the youth sub-forum. It's no wonder everyone accuses you of being a WUM.