James Garner to Nottingham Forest - Loan watch 2020-21

GoldTrafford99

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It's not nonsense, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a very in-depth and detailed thread about the entire process we've been going through in the youth sub-forum. It's no wonder everyone accuses you of being a WUM.

I know exactly what I'm talking about...
 

GoldTrafford99

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It's not nonsense, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a very in-depth and detailed thread about the entire process we've been going through in the youth sub-forum. It's no wonder everyone accuses you of being a WUM.

Yes. I read the Academy posts on here... some good posters in there, certainly better than the main forums and those whinging... but there are some posters on the academy threads - the best posters in there - who will absolutely detail to you how much of a long-term strategy turnaround we've made since Ole came in... He has transformed the academy approach. And as I have said a few times now, all associated with the club agree...they all say the same thing. There are loadsa quotes from club coaches around...
 

limerickcitykid

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I know exactly what I'm talking about...
You clearly don’t though :lol: You’re trying to credit Ole with youth recruitment which is nothing short of laughable.

I suppose Jose was actually the one who poached Kieran McKenna and transformed our u18s into PL North champions. Should all be thanking Jose for revamping the academy back in 2016.
 

Kag

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If anything, you can credit the executives for highlighting the structural weaknesses of the academy that festered under the latter Gill/Ferguson years and making efforts to rectify them. The academy turnaround began long before Ole, although I can well imagine he’s had a positive influence since coming in. Nick Cox and Nicky Butt came in under the Van Gaal period, I believe.
 

Hoof The Ball

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Garner has been great for Forest. Folks looking for him to dominate the ball in a side that was (until Garner joined) only a few points above the relegation zone, is madness. You do what you can with the limitations that particular side has.
 

vva

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He started to show that he's quite good as No 6. I would like to see him continue to play on loan in EL with Forest next year.
 

pascell

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Nonsense.

Ask anybody associated with the club... I've just given you examples of an ex coach saying how much it turned around under Ole and a current coach who has explained how much it has changed around under Ole... What more do you want? FACTS that our recruitment of younger players has gone up ten fold since Ole came in? well, they're all there for you to see if you wanna bother looking for them.

I'll take the facts from which I can read with my own eyes (and they're not hard to find on the internet) and the quotes from all the coaches, ex and current, over your random opinion based on nothing.

Ole has transformed the club, he has transformed the academy. FACT!

Ask anybody associated with the club.

Anyone and everyone with snippets of info coming from Sir Alex Ferguson says he is absolutely thrilled with the redevelopment of the wider expanse of the club, yet AltiUn on the old RedCaf doesn't agree...
I'm sorry mate but it isn't nonsense.

The credit has to go to Nick Cox, Nicky Butt and everyone else (the scouts deserve a very honourable mention) involved with the academy, they were the ones who brought the clear plan on improving the academy. They did their due diligence on what changes needed to be made and how to implement them to increase the chance of success for the academy players.

They also have a healthy budget, coupled with taking on board scout recommendations, has helped improve the quality of players entering the academy from overseas and at home. Then the coaches themselves helping nurture the potential of those players by putting them in different footballing situations on the pitch and training ground.

Ole takes on board the assessments and evaluations of the academy players and then sees where and when it's best to put them into the first team.

This work hasn't happened overnight, it was a long term investment, which is still ongoing.
 

Teja

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I'm sorry mate but it isn't nonsense.

The credit has to go to Nick Cox, Nicky Butt and everyone else (the scouts deserve a very honourable mention) involved with the academy, they were the ones who brought the clear plan on improving the academy. They did their due diligence on what changes needed to be made and how to implement them to increase the chance of success for the academy players.

They also have a healthy budget, coupled with taking on board scout recommendations, has helped improve the quality of players entering the academy from overseas and at home. Then the coaches themselves helping nurture the potential of those players by putting them in different footballing situations on the pitch and training ground.

Ole takes on board the assessments and evaluations of the academy players and then sees where and when it's best to put them into the first team.

This work hasn't happened overnight, it was a long term investment, which is still ongoing.
You've obviously just met GoldTrafford. For the sake of your mental health I suggest hitting the ignore button on all his posts. I have :lol:
 

bosnian_red

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Good to see he's having a better spell with Forrest. He's one that needs to have a few loans spells IMO. Ideally even stay with them next season if it's proving to be a good loan spell, let him stay until he's a class above that level. It's a hard position to learn and make the jump in so I don't think we should take him in before he shows he's a genuinely quality player with experience in the premier league. He'll never reach that level if we bring him back early. I'm guessing another 2 years on loan before we even consider it tbh, 1 more in the championship, then another 1 in the premier league.
 

Robbie Boy

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Nonsense.

Ask anybody associated with the club... I've just given you examples of an ex coach saying how much it turned around under Ole and a current coach who has explained how much it has changed around under Ole... What more do you want? FACTS that our recruitment of younger players has gone up ten fold since Ole came in? well, they're all there for you to see if you wanna bother looking for them.

I'll take the facts from which I can read with my own eyes (and they're not hard to find on the internet) and the quotes from all the coaches, ex and current, over your random opinion based on nothing.

Ole has transformed the club, he has transformed the academy. FACT!

Ask anybody associated with the club.

Anyone and everyone with snippets of info coming from Sir Alex Ferguson says he is absolutely thrilled with the redevelopment of the wider expanse of the club, yet AltiUn on the old RedCaf doesn't agree...
You're relentless with your lies and will derail every thread to praise Ole, even though you make it up as you go along. Total WUM.
 

Brightonian

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Where would he be guaranteed game time? Matic would be the back up hardly ever starting as he has been doing lately anyway.

Fred and McT would take most of the minutes as first choice. If Pogba leaves and isn't replaced I'd expect Matic and DvB to be the back ups. Garner would likely be 5th choice at best here next season.
We will see. If Garner was in the squad right now, he'd be lined up to start against Sociedad. Fred and Matic have both played today and might both be needed against Chelsea, and Ole doesn't like Matic to play two games in a row, let alone three.
 

macheda14

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It's not nonsense, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a very in-depth and detailed thread about the entire process we've been going through in the youth sub-forum. It's no wonder everyone accuses you of being a WUM.
There has been a long term plan, but it was becoming undone under Jose. Quotes have come out recently that the academy staff felt undervalued/didn’t even want to come into work and that their efforts would be in vein - they didn’t feel they could talk to Jose. Ole hasn’t single handedly done anything BUT his reopening of a full time dialogue between academy staff and the first team the academy once again feels central to the club.
 

mav_9me

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Good to see he's having a better spell with Forrest. He's one that needs to have a few loans spells IMO. Ideally even stay with them next season if it's proving to be a good loan spell, let him stay until he's a class above that level. It's a hard position to learn and make the jump in so I don't think we should take him in before he shows he's a genuinely quality player with experience in the premier league. He'll never reach that level if we bring him back early. I'm guessing another 2 years on loan before we even consider it tbh, 1 more in the championship, then another 1 in the premier league.
Garner turns 20 in March, so I agree he has time for 2 more years on loan. I do however hope though that he can get a PL loan next year mainly to get upto speed for the PL and then a year later do a job for us rather than 2 yrs in loan.
 

Bwuk

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If he does well in this loan I’d imagine he’ll be part of the squad next season as we probably look to further phase Matic out.
 

P-Nut

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We will see. If Garner was in the squad right now, he'd be lined up to start against Sociedad. Fred and Matic have both played today and might both be needed against Chelsea, and Ole doesn't like Matic to play two games in a row, let alone three.
Yeah I agree, but that's with 3 midfielders injured. He can't sit about and wait for an injury crisis for a run of games, if he's to be part of the squad next season he'd need to be getting starts and sub appearances to build on a solid foundation he looks to be making since his move to Forest, otherwise another year on loan in a team that has more possession could be perfect.
 

RUCK4444

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Is this lad going to be the feckin CDM I want but the keep refusing to sign!?

Somebody please fill me in, he looked average to me when he had a cameo a couple of times, last season was it? I’m hoping he will kick on, we need a true DM.
 

bosnian_red

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Garner turns 20 in March, so I agree he has time for 2 more years on loan. I do however hope though that he can get a PL loan next year mainly to get upto speed for the PL and then a year later do a job for us rather than 2 yrs in loan.
Just being realistic. This is the first time he's playing non reserve football. He's a bit behind on his development and in his position, it takes a while to develop but to develop, he needs game time at professional level. He needs to get used to the physicality and he plain and simple will eventually have to show he can dominate games and control everything, and pretty much look a class above. It's a very tough position to excel in as a youngster.
 

mav_9me

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Just being realistic. This is the first time he's playing non reserve football. He's a bit behind on his development and in his position, it takes a while to develop but to develop, he needs game time at professional level. He needs to get used to the physicality and he plain and simple will eventually have to show he can dominate games and control everything, and pretty much look a class above. It's a very tough position to excel in as a youngster.
Agreed. Does look like he has the talent. And I trust the current regime to do the right thing with the youngsters.
 

Brightonian

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Yeah I agree, but that's with 3 midfielders injured. He can't sit about and wait for an injury crisis for a run of games, if he's to be part of the squad next season he'd need to be getting starts and sub appearances to build on a solid foundation he looks to be making since his move to Forest, otherwise another year on loan in a team that has more possession could be perfect.
2 central midfielders. You always include Bruno and VdB in this discussion but they're not in competition for the same places. There are two CM positions, to be filled from Pogba, McT, Fred and Matic. Garner would be looking at those positions. Realistically, he'd be in competition with Fred and Matic for the more defensive spot (#6, if you like).

It's not unrealistic to expect to have two CMs missing for large spells of any given season. Last season we actually had two or more CMs unavailable for more than half of the season's matches.
 

MadDogg

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2 central midfielders. You always include Bruno and VdB in this discussion but they're not in competition for the same places. There are two CM positions, to be filled from Pogba, McT, Fred and Matic. Garner would be looking at those positions. Realistically, he'd be in competition with Fred and Matic for the more defensive spot (#6, if you like).

It's not unrealistic to expect to have two CMs missing for large spells of any given season. Last season we actually had two or more CMs unavailable for more than half of the season's matches.
Quite a few of VDB's games have been in central midfield rather than an attacking role. He's obviously fifth choice but he is definitely an option there.
 

Scholsey2004

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Good to see he's having a better spell with Forrest. He's one that needs to have a few loans spells IMO. Ideally even stay with them next season if it's proving to be a good loan spell, let him stay until he's a class above that level. It's a hard position to learn and make the jump in so I don't think we should take him in before he shows he's a genuinely quality player with experience in the premier league. He'll never reach that level if we bring him back early. I'm guessing another 2 years on loan before we even consider it tbh, 1 more in the championship, then another 1 in the premier league.
I like loan spells across more than one season. Far more productive than short term ones in terms of player development as they get longer to get used to how teammates play and vice versa. Kroos and Henderson are two players off the top of my head whove greatly benefited from that approach.
 

bosnian_red

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I like loan spells across more than one season. Far more productive than short term ones in terms of player development as they get longer to get used to how teammates play and vice versa. Kroos and Henderson are two players off the top of my head whove greatly benefited from that approach.
Yup. I like loan spells until they prove they're too good for that level or team. A player at a top club should look like a key player at a smaller club. We don't want them to progress to squad player at best level and then stop, we ideally want them to get to a level where they will push the starters. There are some rapid risers that are supremely talented that you don't loan out and you progress internally (Greenwood, Diallo), but others will need the more conventional path. So really hope it works for Garner and that he isn't brought back too soon or moved around too much.
 

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Yup. I like loan spells until they prove they're too good for that level or team. A player at a top club should look like a key player at a smaller club. We don't want them to progress to squad player at best level and then stop, we ideally want them to get to a level where they will push the starters. There are some rapid risers that are supremely talented that you don't loan out and you progress internally (Greenwood, Diallo), but others will need the more conventional path. So really hope it works for Garner and that he isn't brought back too soon or moved around too much.
I think with midfielders especially that seems to be the case. 22-23 seems to be roughly the age when most start to really assert themselves.
 

Adcuth

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I know exactly what I'm talking about...
Unless you are part of the inner crew of Manchester Utd. You know little to nothing about whats going on. You can know what we as fans are allowed to know, but I'm pretty sure the major details of the inner working of our club are not released. We are fans with opinions, not facts. Unless we are privileged to be told those facts.
 

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I reckon a struggling Championship side is a great place for a young CM to cut their teeth

he'll learn so much about the game and it will toughen him up too
 

Adcuth

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If he does well in this loan I’d imagine he’ll be part of the squad next season as we probably look to further phase Matic out.
Hopefully he is kept to advise Garner in the better details of being a proper number 6. Matic at his best was immense. That input to a promising prospect coming back after hopefully a successful loan spell will be so good for his further development. Garner has an aspect of Carrick about him. The input of a matic could create some player if he continues to grow as a player
 

city-puma

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Hopefully he is kept to advise Garner in the better details of being a proper number 6. Matic at his best was immense. That input to a promising prospect coming back after hopefully a successful loan spell will be so good for his further development. Garner has an aspect of Carrick about him. The input of a matic could create some player if he continues to grow as a player
Well said. The coaching team and the senior players, Butt, Fletcher, Carrick, Matic. They can give a whole lot to him.
I hope he can finish this loan spell well and join our first team squad next season to formally launch his manutd career.
 
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Unless you are part of the inner crew of Manchester Utd. You know little to nothing about whats going on. You can know what we as fans are allowed to know, but I'm pretty sure the major details of the inner working of our club are not released. We are fans with opinions, not facts. Unless we are privileged to be told those facts.
He knows people who knows people..

I've got mutual friends with former United youth coach Lee Waddington. (Please don't take this as a declaration of ITK...I know nothing).

Anyway, Lee says that the talk around our club is that we have more promise in the youth and academy set up than at any time in our history...

And that Solskjaer, since he came, has been utterly superb with regard his academy strategy and restructure....
 

Caesar2290

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So what do you guys think, is he ready to be a back up to our team or do he need 1-2 more seasons of regular game time before we'll be ready to have this discussion?

Just being realistic. This is the first time he's playing non reserve football. He's a bit behind on his development and in his position, it takes a while to develop but to develop, he needs game time at professional level. He needs to get used to the physicality and he plain and simple will eventually have to show he can dominate games and control everything, and pretty much look a class above. It's a very tough position to excel in as a youngster.
The thing with DMs, especially the likes of Garner is that they tend to hit their peak 2 years later than most players. It's mostly down to the fact that aside from the technical aspects of the game(like passing and tackling) they also have to master the tactical aspect meaning that they have to be able not just to read the game, but also position themselves to close off passing lanes, shield the CBs, get into favorable positions to start counter attacks. Most of that comes with experience and game time.

Personally I rate Garner a level below Greenwood and on the same level as Laird(if he stays injury free). The kid has talent, but also a good head on his shoulders and provided he stays injury free I say him having a really good career at our club
 

BR7

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Crediting ole with our youth set up is pure out and out wrong. This is the problem with so many ole fans (not all ofcourse) who are trying to give him credit for anything they can get their hands on.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Crediting ole with our youth set up is pure out and out wrong. This is the problem with so many ole fans (not all ofcourse) who are trying to give him credit for anything they can get their hands on.
Rather than dis credit him, which is the problem with so many fans(not all of course), how about giving credit to who you think is responsible,or is that astretch too far for you?
 

BR7

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Rather than dis credit him, which is the problem with so many fans(not all of course), how about giving credit to who you think is responsible,or is that astretch too far for you?
Don’t take it personally, you seem to be. I can’t credit Ole for it, it’s like saying Rome wasn’t built by Romulus and Remus and made great by Caesar etc but by the more modern day Italian presidents. Im hoping you can see who I’m crediting for man Utd being in this strong position as a gargantuan football club. It ain’t ole that’s for sure. He in fact gets zero credit for our youth system. Next you’ll be telling me you built Big Ben because you we’re near it.
 

TwoSheds

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Don’t take it personally, you seem to be. I can’t credit Ole for it, it’s like saying Rome wasn’t built by Romulus and Remus and made great by Caesar etc but by the more modern day Italian presidents. Im hoping you can see who I’m crediting for man Utd being in this strong position as a gargantuan football club. It ain’t ole that’s for sure. He in fact gets zero credit for our youth system. Next you’ll be telling me you built Big Ben because you we’re near it.
Providing a good environment for young players to get into the first team is clearly something that can be largely credited to the combination of Ole and Butt. The rest of the work in terms of getting the right coaches, scouts, players and facilities in the academy is clearly largely down to other people. No one person can make an academy amazing though, it has to be a team effort and Ole must be at least partly involved.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Don’t take it personally, you seem to be. I can’t credit Ole for it, it’s like saying Rome wasn’t built by Romulus and Remus and made great by Caesar etc but by the more modern day Italian presidents. Im hoping you can see who I’m crediting for man Utd being in this strong position as a gargantuan football club. It ain’t ole that’s for sure. He in fact gets zero credit for our youth system. Next you’ll be telling me you built Big Ben because you we’re near it.
I don't think Ole should receive any credit for the academy. However. if Ole is more proactive in speaking to those in charge of the youth setup and is giving chances to young players then other young players will feel like they have more of a chance of getting chances in the first team. I doubt anyone had confidence in a chance in the first team under Mourinho.
 

BR7

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I don't think Ole should receive any credit for the academy. However. if Ole is more proactive in speaking to those in charge of the youth setup and is giving chances to young players then other young players will feel like they have more of a chance of getting chances in the first team. I doubt anyone had confidence in a chance in the first team under Mourinho.
Yeah fair shout,